I feel I've had enough

[kaydeekay]

M: 42
H: 36
S21 & D17(from my 1st M) S17(from H's 1st M) D13 (ours)
S: 11/2004
Filed D: 7/2005

H still confused
kaydeekay movin' on

I've been on a few of the other boards, but I believe my H in in MLC.

Quick background:

Separated 11/2004...found out about OW on 2/15/05...H moved out. Filed D 7/18/05. D was never finallized due to H no longer living in the jurisdiction he filed D papers so it was dismissed. H and OW ended things about a year ago. There were other women. Between the time of the initial separation in 2004 up until October 2006, H has moved out so many times...too many to count. H has lived with relatives, OW, and friends. After living with somone for awhile, he would move out and move back home, then only to move out again.

Each time H would "return home" he would make promises that he would work on things, be a better H/father, etc. Each time things didn't turn out as promised. H does keep in good contact with D13, which is a plus.

H moved out this past October after a 2 week stay and we decided that we would move forward with the D. After a few days of him leaving, H would drop by the house for petty things. I had to tell H that he would need to start calling me prior to coming over. H didn't like this too well and told me I was being mean. H started calling me 3 to 4 times a day with nice chit chat. Then he would want to meet for lunch (which we did).

The one time we did meet for lunch (early November), H opened up to me. H told me that during our M I really didn't pay attention to him, didn't tell him I loved him enough, and didn't tell anything positve about himself. H said that OW (whom he met at work) started showing him attention and telling him what a good looking guy he was and that's how it all began. H said that if I had told him some of the things he was aching to hear from me then he would not have strayed. H was crying as he was telling me this in the middle of the restaurant. H said he would like to take things slow with me and try to work on our M. I should mention that during this time H was seeing a counselor through his job due to anger management. H had gotten into a few verbal arguements with co-workers.

After that, it seems things were going super slow. H still made phone contact with me, but his visits to my house were few and far between. H would call me and say, "You wanna meet for lunch next week?" I agree, but when the date comes around, H would have an excuse as to why he couldn't meet me. This has happened a few times.

Fastforward to today. We were to meet for lunch today. I called H to confirm because I had the feeling this date would fall through too. And it did. H made some lame excuse as to why he couldn't. I had enouch. I text H and told him to leave me alone from now and that I was done with him. H call my cell but I didn't answer it. H sent me text saying that I was being hateful and that I never changed. Another text he told me that if we see each other out just pass by.

I really think I've had my fill and I'm taking myself out of this vicious cycle. H is no longer seeing a counselor, which I think is a big mistake.

H told me that every time he would feel himself getting closer to me he would get scared and run off. Is this a normal behavior for someone who is in MLC?

kdk

[OnHoldAZ]

This is normal behavior for someone in MLC who is not doing any work on themselves. If he’s been allowed to come And go as he pleases – why should he?

I hear a teenager…………………..it’s all your fault, you were mean, you made me sleep with her……………….GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!

H told me that during our M I really didn't pay attention to him, didn't tell him I loved him enough, and didn't tell anything positive about himself. H said that OW (whom he met at work) started showing him attention and telling him what a good looking guy he was and that's how it all began.

I guess if you want some one who is going to sleep with every Woman who pays him a complement - you could take him back, but I think I would stick this one back into the oven until it’s done.

However – if I were in your shoes, I would set boundaries and stick to them. I would not let H back in the front door until he had crawled through glass to prove his regret (actions – not words). I would cut him off except for conversation/email/txt msgs about finances and kids.


I like this better – with out the “I really think”

I've had my fill and I'm taking myself out of this vicious cycle.

Part of the problem dealing with MLC – we think if we are nice and worry about how our MLC’er will take everything, it will help. I’ve raised 2 teenagers and dealt with far too many in the military – the words that describe them and most MLC’ers is ungrateful self-centered little s%#*’*

They will twist your words and accuse you of, and blame you for everything – just like a 17 your-old boy who wants to borrow the Porsche for a “hot date” and you say no.

Detach from his drama – and go on with your life.

[kaydeekay]

Thanks for dropping by OnHold.

Detach from his drama – and go on with your life.

I'm taking that advice and running with it.

Even after I told H to leave me alone he still tried to make some sort of contact. H called my cell Saturday while I was out Christmas shopping. I didn't want to talk to him so I let it go straight to voicemail. His message was that he was trying to make contact with D13 and wanted me to have her call him. When I returned home I checked D13's cell phone and H only attempted to make one contact with her. This is typical of H. During the last month and a half H has called me 3 to 4 times a day and would call D13 occassionally. Now that I don't want any contact from him he will try to make contact with me through D13.

Sunday, H dropped by the house unannounced (which I've asked him to phone before coming over) to give me some money. I was home alone and I really didn't want to answer the door when he knocked. When I didn't answer the door, he let himself in (the door was unlocked ). H was real short with me, gave me the money, and left. A few hours later H showed up with his roommate (a good friend of ours) to pick up a mattress. I left as soon as they arrived.

This happens everytime I attempt to set boundaries, and try to have very limited to no contact with H. But somehow, somewhere I have allowed H to reel me back in. It all starts with friendly chit chat and then wham! I'm back to the same ol' sh!t. Not this time!! I will find the strength to not allow him to do this to me again!

[OnHoldAZ]

The hard part is setting boundaries, but even harder is maintaining them (darn pesky MLC’ers………..).

Now that I don't want any contact from him he will try to make contact with me through D13.

Very typical - how a teenager can call you every name in the book, until they realize you have the car keys...................

Detaching is difficult and with kids involved - you end up with some contact. So you keep working at it - like MLC, none of this is easy and it all takes time. Don't rush yourself and don't beat yourself up - life is lived, one day at a time.

KDK – I think you are doing good, some MLC’ers are just a little harder to shake then others (funny – they want time and space – but some are even more afraid you will get yours also).

[Rollercoasterider]

Welcome to my world...the world where the LBS doesn't cling, but the MLCers smothers himself in glue and chases the LBS.

I don't know that it is a rare form of MLC. I think more would be this way except that the LBS either won't put up with it and isn't Standing or is the one still pursuing.

Boundaries are key.
Rather than becomeing frustrated because he tried to break the boundaries...expect such things. These are tests and evidnece that he doesn't want to be away...incessantly trying to contact you.

Yesterday Sweetheart left the OW's and was walking to her parents three houses away...he used that time away from her to call me.

Like your MLCer Sweetheart has come home multiple times. I put up a no-contact and he just leaves messages or sends texts.

What I haven't had is a problem with him breaking dates. He stalls things...but he goes out of his way to see me.

But it is true...they get scared when they feel or show positive feelings for us...and retreat. Rather than question this, accept it. Not easy, but we aren't going to make it go away...so put on a Toga because when in Rome...

I recommend you stop the dates. You don't have to be through. Fortunately he doesn't have an OW presently...so dating is not inappropritate. But he is clearly taking advantage. Tell him you will schedule something with him when he shows you he is willing to be approiate, show you the proper respect and show up.

Now the part of that I don't have is the key thing...what will he do to show you? I don't know. Go dark and see what he does.

So he came in the unlocked door...if locked he doesn't have a key then? Lock the door. If you don't mind him coming over and he does tell you he needs to come to the house...make plans to leave--an hour or more before he is scheduled. Just go to the Library of you have no where else.

I did that and it drove Sweetheart nuts wondering about my busy life.

Boundaries are tough...as soon as you set them, he tests. This is when it's perhaps most important to be strog regarding those boundaries. You've seen the testing already...anger, begging, button-pushing, niceness--to wiggle into good graces.

Be firm. Then when he accuses you of being cold and having no emotions...tell him you are sorry he feels that way. You can also tell him your tactic here...I seem this way because I am protecting my heart.

Through dark phases he may also need a lot of reassurances. He may be like LBSs are when it seems the MLCer is so certain he wants out. The LBS sees the mean and retreating behaviour...the avoidance etc. and beleives it really is hopeless...he doesn't love me.

But MLCers in this role are a bit luckier because we LBSs who have pursuers are aware of our behaviour and are choosing to stay deliberately and because of our love...rather than because we are so confused we think we have no love.

What rules are there regarding the house?

Is he allowed to come inside without you there..or only with permission and/or your presence and permission?

Because what do you do when he breaks this sort of boundary and brings along a friend...make a scene?

You can try to be firm and 'shove him off the porch.' But be careful here...and I don't mean literally shove him. But this approaches the Bitch...which is sometimes needed...but it's touchy.

Perhaps just get your things and leave. At that time or later let him know that his behaviour disappointed you. ...the disrepsect was in not respecting your space and boundaries...now it is important that he knows about the boundaries. If you haven't told him what is and isn't allowed in clear language...it doesn't count...that's not fair. This isn't like the law where you are in trouble whether you know the law or not. Why...because boundaires can change...so no changing out of the blue...there needs to be an inciting incident--even just a conversation.

And just because you've set the boundary, don't expect him to follow them well.

I have told Sweetheart I expect he will respect me and my boundaries. But really, there are certain things I know won't be followed...or rather, will be pushed. He can be in our house when I'm at work...but he is not allowed to move home right now. He is showing a sort of respect by not mvoing in against my demands but rather by getting me to change my mind.

So he is not accepting the boundary, but instead of just crossing it he's taking the more repsectful method and trying to appeal to me to remove it.

It's not working...but so far I still do expect that he will not cross the boundary...but he will push it.

Frustrating...Is the Pope Catholic?...YEAH
But that's howt his sordid tale goes.

It's good that you checked your daughter's cell to check out his story. I would have done that too...but not to frustrate myself but rather to reassure myself...yup, that was just an excuse to call me. Not that I need reassurance, but hey, it's a nice things sometimes.

LEt your husband no that you are going No-Contact...that is now an official term for Sweetheart...he knows it by that name. He can call and leave a message. You will check it as soon as you get it or are able. You will respond if it is important. Sme goes for texts and emails.

Tell him that you expect...not that you want or think he should. Excpet...it is a bit of ERicksonian type hypnosis...you are stating it as a fact and your belief in it will help create the reality. Now, at the same time, it won't always work or be smooth. He will try...but continue to EXPECT. hmm...maybe it is like getting what you ask for and also getting what you put out...so make sure to show by example too. Show him respect too...without being a doormat--which it doesn't sound like you're being anyway.

But you can be kind while being firm and avoiding negative emotions such as anger.

Gotta go back from lunch, but I will check in later.
You're going through some things very similar to me and Sweetheart right now...so believe me, I feel your frustrations.

HUGS,
RCR

[kaydeekay]

Thanks RC for the great advice.

Be firm. Then when he accuses you of being cold and having no emotions...tell him you are sorry he feels that way. You can also tell him your tactic here...I seem this way because I am protecting my heart.


I've tried this once and it went in one ear, out the other. However, I am going to be very firm on this one. And, if he can't deal with it or accept it then it is time to move on.

What rules are there regarding the house?


The only rule now is I have told him to call prior to coming over. H has already broken that one. Other than getting into an argument with him when he does break this rule, I don't know what else to do.

Perhaps just get your things and leave. At that time or later let him know that his behaviour disappointed you. ...the disrepsect was in not respecting your space and boundaries...now it is important that he knows about the boundaries. If you haven't told him what is and isn't allowed in clear language...it doesn't count...that's not fair. This isn't like the law where you are in trouble whether you know the law or not. Why...because boundaires can change...so no changing out of the blue...there needs to be an inciting incident--even just a conversation.

Okay, I will give this one a try if it happens the next time.


But you can be kind while being firm and avoiding negative emotions such as anger.


I need to really work on this one

There's not anything to report from the homefront. H has not contacted me and I have made no contacts to him since Sunday. It's really too early for any contacts from H. His usualy M.O. is to wait about 5 days to a full week before he makes any contact. If he doesn't make contact during this time I guess this will be something new for the both of us

I must say it is nice not to be dealing with any drama and any second guessing on his meanings towards me.

[kaydeekay]

Journaling:

Tomorrow will be 2 weeks since I told H to no longer contact me and he has. Which is very surprising I did break the no contact rule on Christmas day. I sent him a text "Merry Christmas." H later came by and picked up D13. We had a brief convo while D13 was getting her things. I complimented him on his new jacket. H asked me if a I had a good Christmas and I replied "Why yes I did, thank you" with a huge smile on my face. I asked him about his and he said that it was alright (he sounded depressed and looked it). I did feel sorry for H because he was not around his family (parents and granparents).

I'm keeping myself busy and my mind off of H. Making plans to spend time with D13 and D17 at the movies this weekend, I will be going to a New Year's eve party and the next day watching a bowl game.

Hope everyone has a happy and safe New Year!!

[kaydeekay]

Supplemental update:

Just got off the phone with H. H called me (I'm at work). H had a very friendly tone this time.

H: Not this Friday, but next Friday I will drop some money off for you.
M: Okay (with smile in my voice)
H: Is that okay with you?
M: Yes, that will be fine. Thank you.
H: Okay, bye.
M: Bye.

The whole convo took 11 seconds.

[kaydeekay]

Update:

H did finally make contact with me on New Year's day. (I think he private called me at 3:00 in the morning. It could only have been him since I was with my friends). H called me and we had a friendly chit chat. He called back immediately and asked if I wanted to have sex . It had been awhile for me and I told him sure.

During the act H asked "Why do we always end up having sex?" I told him that I didn't know. Afterwards H left and said he would call (which he didn't and I didn't expect it).

H started calling me for the next couple of days just to say hi or to see how I was doing. Friday evening he calls to let me know that child support would be a week late and we had a decent convo. He tells me things like: "I still know your social security number" and he rattles it off. Reminded me of my age (I'm 42 he's 36) and I joked to him "No, I'm actually 38, sorry I lied to you all those years." Asks me how old my parents are and how they are doing. Tells me with every monthly bonus check (around 90 bucks) he receives he will put in savings and by next Christmas he will give me the whole thing. It was little things like that kinda made me ask myself why is he telling me these things?

After we hung up, I realized that I had forgotten to tell him that I'm planning on filing the D papers. This is not what I want, but I feel there's no other choice. I called his cell and there was no answer (he was still at work). I left a VM and told him that by the end of the month I would file the papers and I would let him know when it happened, and I could drop by his work or he could come by my house to pick the filed petition up. I had a friendly tone in my voice and it was not hateful or sarcastic sounding at all. H never did call me back to let me know he received the VM.

Later that night I started thinking over the past two years and what I had gone through. I started crying and knew that I could not go on like this anymore. So I sent H a TM saying "I'm sorry for everyting I did wrong. I still love you with all my heart, but I can't live like this anymore. Don't call me. It hurts me every time. Let me go please."

I'm struggling with my heart right now. Did I do the right thing? H lives with a friend of ours less than 3 miles away from me and not once has he asked me to come over. I don't even know which apartment he lives in, only the location. H has only had D13 over once and this was on Christmas day for about 3 hours.

I can't take the friendly phone calls anymore. I guess I'm wanting more and wanting H to snap out of it. I question why does he want to be friends with me, have sex with me, but doesn't want me anymore than just that?

I also question myself, am I filing for D just to get a reaction from him or am I really doing this because I don't see an end to this (H going through the revoloving door of my heart). I really love my H but at times I feel he doesn't love me.

[OnHoldAZ]

Remember - H is in teenage it's all about him mode. You need to set your boundaries, but you need to make them stick. H will try everyway possible to get around them.

If you feel you have had enough - file the D, but do it for you. If you are doing it for H or hopes that it will wake him up - don't.

Stop - think about it for 72 hours, if you still think you need to for you - and it is what you want - then do it. Most people say when the head and the heart do not agree - wait.

A dear friend used to tell me - "Just don't do anything that can't be undone. Until you are sure that, that is what you want"