I've ordered Passionate Marriage, but its not arived yet. Has anyone used Ressurecting Sex? What can you say about it? Lil, especially interested in your opinion, since except for the level of bull-headedness of our mates, seem to have a similar situation.
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
I have "Resurrecting Sex," and of course, the stuff in it is similar to "Passionate Marriage," which is the same as "Constructing the Sexual Crucible." I don't remember anything specific that distinguished each of these books from the others.
The essence of Schnarch is that you must push past your comfort level to truly reveal yourself in bed and outside of bed. Self-disclosure is intimacy and leads to further intimacy. I've referred recently on a couple of threads to two interviews with Schnarch that I've listened to, and both of them were terrific.
As I posted somewhere else, Schnarch says that most couples complain that they don't have intimacy, but he says couples generally have as much intimacy as they can tolerate. They collude to keep their intimacy levels tolerable and then complain that their partner either wants too much or won't deliver enough. It's up to one of them to push past tolerance.
Also he says that most couples say they don't "communicate," but he says couples communicate very well-- they just don't want to hear what the other party is communicating!
Lost, how would you describe your sitch as it is right now?
I can't comment on the Schnarch book, but I CAN comment from one who was in an SSM, now divorced, now into another R... and beyond the 'chemical bath phase.'
I think I have documented other places that my LD came roaring back on occassions when I was NOT expecting it... at ALL. Having had previous experience with my LDness, however, gave me amazing fertile ground to confront myself... afterall, I see my LDness as MY issue, first and foremost. And I am NOT kidding, my LDness typcially will come roaring back when:
1) I am feeling uncomfortable 2) I am not willing to be honest about my discomfort
Now when I say uncomfortable, I'm not talking about situations where I don't feel comfortable performing some type of sexual act (although that could be it)... it's usually, for me, reserved in an area where I am feeling particularly vulnerable... when I have to reveal a part of myself I'm not all that comfy-cozy revealing... like, say... receiving pleasure from a man and revealing my pleasure... or rather... feeling comfortable enough to allow myself to feel pleasure, if that makes any sense.
For those of you who don't know my background, this is a BIG deal for me, for I was sexually abused as a kid... and feeling pleasure (with LOVELY abandon) and having a man GIVE that pleasure to me did NOT mix. Though, I have to say, i don't think a woman has to have sexual abuse in her background to experience this same type of confusion. Religion can do it to her, skewed pre-conceived notions can do it to her, upbringing... you name it, it can happen.
Anyhoo. I've come to find that when my LDness kicks in... it has become an INCREDIBLE indicator to me of something I am trying to HIDE... either from myself or my partner. In one sense, I am almost thankful for my LDness now... because I immediately have to look internally first to see what might be amiss with me.
And truly... hiding ourselves from our S.Os., in MY opinion, is the NUMBER 1 thru 10 BLOCK to intimacy. I agree with Lil and Schnarch whole heartedly... communication is NOT the problem... it's not liking what we are hearing... and having no idea on the planet how to problem solve, but most especially, not being able/willing/knowing how to confront our OWN deepest fears, and reveal that to our S.O.
Judgement is a very, very, very sad thing. The moment I get judgemental about myself or my S.O., things GO TO SH!T.
But. At least I know that now.
For anyone who is going to ask me (probably Cobra)... would this knowledge have made a difference in my marriage... No. My xH was NOT willing to confront himself. And no matter how hard I worked, no matter how many books I read, no matter what I did... he had reached the bottom of his barrel. I will give him all the credit in the world for going as far as he was able, and I give him even more credit for at least, finally, being honest enough with me to TELL me he had reached his limit. It allowed me to let go of my anger toward him.
So when I finally left him... it was NOT out of anger, or bitterness, or because I thought he was a bad man... I just finally OWNED what I needed in my life, what was non-negotiable for me. It made me incredibly, incredibly sad. In order to stay with him, I had to give up something very important to me... critical to my well-being, I think. I wasn't willing to do that.
In my opinion, people really have to find their courage and hang themselves out there. Scarey business to be sure. Marriage will bring that out in you.
Hmmmm....?.....(thanks for the insite on Resurrecting Sex I've been listening to the Love Matters Programs and that is probably why I asked about the book, hoping to find more clues to what is going on here at the home.)
Being my own 'shrink', I have the most giving husband. I'm thinking he's a lot like Lou in trying his darndest to please me in the non-personal sence. He'll do ANYTHING like shopping, tree planting, pouring coffee that sort of a thing. That's suposed to surfice. He's applied linament to a very sore back, and doing it well, with tenderness and warmth. I don't dare ask for what I consider intimacy, holding and connecting physically, all I get is a wall and tension so thick London fog should be assamed.
Schnarch said something in one of the interviews about burying a partner and not being "connected" to them. I guess that's where I am. More surgery scheduled for after the holidays and we're not talking about it except to chastise the Dr's for jazzing up the inscission on the catherization which now needs to be healed before the stint is addressed again.
I don't want to dwell on the surgery, I want to grow to know the person I'm driving all over the place. Married almost 30 years and yet I say something like that! I know him on a daily task basis, but I'd say he's hurting and depressed and unaproachable to me.
I have tried to understand the codependent logic and the validation issues I have with myself and him. I know it would be healthier to be more comfortable with myself, and going shopping for holiday gifts and to my dr's appt, gave me an uplifting moment. That moment was crashed as I senced he was trying to climb aboard my smile and took me shopping the next day for an illusive coat that I have been looking for for 2 years. (No *grins* I'm not cold, but the old black coat needs a replacement and I haven't found it yet!) I guess its his way of trying to enjoy my cheer when he precieves a happy moment and insists on participating. It's safer. It's not personal. It's not intimate, by my interpretation. It's sad....
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Corri, "feeling comfortable enough to allow myself to feel pleasure, if that makes any sense." makes the most clear sense! You know, H's muscles are so terribly tense on his back, yet he won't allow massage. Talk about not feeling comfortable enough to allow comfort/pleasure!
"I had to give up something very important to me... critical to my well-being, I think. I wasn't willing to do that." Corri, when I sit in the hospital waiting room, there is so much time to think. I think I'm trying to balance the known, with hope/lessness and the unknown. Trying to balance the wonderful feelings of growing old together of dreams gone by with reality and honestly trying not to feel like I'm with a nice old man.
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Well, sweety, my apology. It does matter who is getting the surgery. So you read the book first. Then him. Great convo. He'll be able to explain it ALL to you.
Well I hope the intimacy dosen't break further...there's no where to go! Just got in from C. H and I went. Long short, I'm to notice when I feel low man on the totem pole, dismissed etc. Bring thoses feelings to a conscious level. so that I'm not acting as a marter. Hmmm....well, maybe I should start with the wood spliter in the basement!
I had been trying to find a gift for him for Christmas, guess I'm not going to look too far. I have been trying so much. Guess I'm not appreciated and for me to ask for acknowledgement and appreciation and valadation is too much. So sheetz, here's to stopping trying!
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Idon'tknow...I just can't get a grip on the whole "Schnarch" thing. just doesn't make any sense to me...too many apparent contradictions for my tiny little INTJ brain to handle. He seems to apply the same logic to explain opposite situations. On one page, he says, "just wear the stupid shirt. what's it gonna hurt?"...and then on the next, he says, "don't wear the shirt just because she asked you to...it makes you too much of a whimp". ok, well..which one is it? then there's this whole "validation" thing...some of that stance seems to conflict directly with some people's basic personalities. Those "meyers/briggs" personality types were mentioned there a few days back, and I did some reading...seems W is an INFP. They tend to need positive feedback/affirmation..."validation" from others. Or what about people who's Love language is "Words of Affirmation"? Seems that Schnarch would have them change their spots. Is that adviseable? or even possible?? Reminds me of the adage about never trying to teach a pig to sing. Its a waste of time, and it annoys the pig. oh, and as an INTJ, I can't tolerate illogical or inconsistant reasoning. makes my brain want to implode...if I can't understand it...(and I can't; each of his example couples stories, and eventually, how he applies his theories to their situations, "the answer" always comes as a complete surprise to me...If I can't predict the outcome, I don't understand it), then I can't apply it...then it is of no use to me, and is therefore discarded unceremoniously. Oh, and I'm always right. Which makes me somewhat of an a$$hole. No wonder my w won't have sex with me...I wouldn't either. This explains a whole lot more than Schnarch does.
