I'm sure this is not surprising, but I never got anything from my parents about how to treat women. I was not allowed to date, go to the prom, etc. Never had a "birds and the bees" discussion with either parent. My SEC said it the best, "you missed your adolescence", and that is one of the root causes of my troubles today.
So beyond just whining about my past, the only thing I can say is to echo your "don't hinder him" POV. I'm thinking if my mother (or father) had just allowed me to be exposed to all of those activities that kids do, I could have found my way, at least by learning from mistakes.
Regards, Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
no help here, either. I don't think my parents taught me anything specific to treating "women"; people, in general, perhaps. you said the word, over and over: respect. respect for others. Church was big on that, too. some would call it "humanist". But that didn't do much for me in terms of relating to the opposite sex...not that it did any harm, either; probably entirely unrelated. But I was socially inept as a teen. You've heard the term "chick magnet"? well, I was what you'd call a "chick repellant". In fact, W's first words to me included the phrase "get away from me". (I kid you not). funny how some of our sitch's could have been so easily foreseen...
Hmmm. Good food for thought, thank you. And it's really interesting that you brought this up. I kind of stumbled upon a way of relating to my boyfriend... in that... when I was married, my xH was often in the habit of asking for my opinion on this, that or the other thing... which, of course, I had no problem providing. Funny thing about offering up an opinion when asked, though. You somehow gain a personal investment in what the other person then does.
So... on to my new life. I've been in situations where I'm asked for an opinion on whatever... and I've come to learn that that really means... 'can you be someone to listen to me, and kind of repeat back to me what you think you are hearing?' Which I now do, instead of offering MY opinion. And THEN, after that conversation, I say to him, "I have no doubt you will find your way through this once you weigh things out and consider what you know to be true."
It does an amazing thing. HE thinks I'm the most wonderful person on the plant, just because I listened; I'm not on his azz to do what I previously recommended, because I didn't MAKE a recommendation to begin with (I know, hard to believe, but it is TRUE); he gains confidence in himself for finding his own way, and knowing I am there, no matter what he decides. Job done.
And quite honestly, he does the same for me.
So perhaps this is really the best route to take with my son(s). To help him learn how to think for himself, to have him talk things through, to maybe give him a few additional things to think about, to review with him steps that he DIDN'T take that may have been a better choice in hindsight... to keep him TALKING with me.
And I'm still thinking the whole 'dancing' thing is a good idea. Can't imagine why more guys don't take dancing lessons. It is one of the BIGGEST, most perplexing things I've come across when it comes to men.... cuz, really, all you have to know how to do is walk forward, walk backward, and have the ability to count to four... lift your arm, put it down.... let your women do her thing... show her off. <shake head>. It ain't about being John Travolta... though the girls think you ARE when you can help them do their thing... <END TANGENT>
Swear.
cac4, I hear you. Thanks for offering it up. It helps to know this from the guys. Really.
Corri
Just kidding on the weapons post. Your conserns are quite valid and what you do now will impact him for years.
You are doing the most important thing already. You are being there for him. That shows he is loveable. Most men will tolorate insults of many kinds but never, never, never say anything bad about their mother. Ever.
1) In every Middle and High School there is a kid who has shaved since the third grade (repeated it 3 times) and who is big and athletic enough to make most smart kids miserable. For that I suggest wrestling or a martial arts that emphasises grapling. This way a boy can educate Bruno on the dangers of bullying with a lower danger of being thrown out of school for fighting. A kid who can defend himself but has lots of empathy will have more energy for positive ventures. Like getting good grades.
2) Dancing is outstanding. If you can get him some basic lessons but keep it a little on the down and low his confidence in dancing with the girl he wishes should rise dramaticly.
3) Teach him to give out sincere praise and practice to notice and give out positive comments on the little things you ladies do. Earrings, some design on the sweater, hair style and so on. We do not do that by nature but you probably already know that.
4) What did you like when you were in High school? What could a young man say to you that kept you in positive frame though the 3rd period? How did you take a man showing empathy and respect.
5) If you can teach him to be playful but still respectful that will be a good thing.
Good Luck
"All I want is a weeks pay for a day's work" Steve Martin
Based on my experience with my D15 and her friends, I would say that in middle school it isn't unusual for the girls to take the lead. Once the girls enter high school, the older guys ask them out. Though a lot of co-ed group activities occur also, as Cobra indicated. Kids these days receive a ton of sexual information due to the Aids epidemic. When I recently touched base with my daughter, she informed me that all her friends who are sexually active know where the clinic is in a nearby college town where they can get whatever birth control or services they might need for free. As you indicated, I believe that there is much more acceptance of oral sex and also same sex experimentation amongst girls than when we were young, probably because these activities are viewed as being "safer". I should note that I live in a small midwestern town and my daughter and most of her friends are popular, straight-A, involved in artistic extracuriculer activities, most likely to be accepted to the best colleges type kids.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I agree with some of the other guys. Because I did not have many opportunities to interact with girls in my teen years (all boys high school, over protective parents, etc.) I am where I am now wrt my marriage.
But let me throw a wrench into the works. I believe that a large part of my problem was excessive honesty. I desperately wanted to get close to some girls, but I was deathly afraid that they would find out. Duh, they all knew! A large part of the dating game is creative dishonesty. Flattery is almost never purely factually accurate. This is a lesson I am just now learning.
Yesterday I saw my DD8 knocking on the shoulder of a boy in her class. Knocking like you would on a door, not hard. I looked at her funny and she said, "He doesn't mind." And you know what? It looked like he didn't.
I was thinking of the How to Instill Confidence question and all I could think of were answers on what NOT to do. So I think you will do fine. Mostly, I believe it involves what you said: Telling them that they know what to do which, in turn, causes them to figure out what is the right thing to do and do it. Presumably. lol
I think dancing is a great suggestion but I would also think of things that appeal to the testosterone-driven creature that he is...things involving aggression that I can't think of right now, as I am woefully inadequate in the T area. All I know is that H not-so-nicely informed me a couple days ago that I don't know squat about the male approach to life and therefore should stay out of his interactions with other males. So you might want to ask what things appeal to him and encourage him to develop those curiosities.
Good thing I don't have to worry about such things, seeing as how I have 3 daughters. Oh noooooooooooo I'll get to worry about which guy they are thinking of offering oral sex since it doesn't "count". aaaaaaaaaghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh a million times over.
I think Willie's song shoulda been Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Teenagers.
Quote: Oh noooooooooooo I'll get to worry about which guy they are thinking of offering oral sex since it doesn't "count". aaaaaaaaaghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh a million times over.
Recently, my D15 and her most sexually sophisticated friend were cracking up over something while working together at my house. It turns out that her friend's religious aunt had given her a subscription to a Christian teen girl's magazine and they were reading an article which was trying to convince girls that oral sex does "count". I tried to use this as an opportunity for open discussion but somehow it degenerated into an intellectual debate about whether or not a woman could get Aids if she adopted a baby with Aids and took hormones that allowed her to breastfeed the baby.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Aahhh the emotional ADD of teens. The oral sex topic was a good one no matter how briefly it was addressed. My H has always said to the foster boys - if what you are doing involves touching any part of someone's body that normally has clothes on or involves any of their bodily fluids - it is sex. I realize that kids don't see it that way.
FWIW - I am dealing with the same kinds of issue with DS14 who is turning 15 this next week. It is a very scary thing to parent emerging adults. I admire anyone who looks beyond the day to day to issues like building what kind of person they will become. So many people get stuck on grades, pimples, icky wardrobe, day to day emotional stuff etc...
The steps in the attraction based mating dance never change. The steps that society puts in there to try to waylay it do.
if what you are doing involves touching any part of someone's body that normally has clothes on or involves any of their bodily fluids - it is sex. I realize that kids don't see it that way.
I think they do, or they wouldnt use code words and try to keep it on the 'down low'. They're just trying to rationalize and justify there emotional activities and see if you will buy into their reality. It worked for Bill. Teenagers have been fooling and fondling for aeons and will continue to do so. Females have been getting pregnant when they hit menses and will continue to do so.
First Corri then HP. Girls asking the boys out, eh. Well I guess that takes care of the boy-adolescent-anxiety aspect of the mating ritual, but it will never work out in the long run because women do not respect men that can't take charge
I guess my mother was first actually... Still spreading the disinformation. I always wondered if you mothers did this on purpose, because you knew it will kill the girls attraction. SABOTEURS!!! I remember how that went down when I believed my mother and went that route after she made me. Down in flames I tell you. <crash and burn> Man was I perplexed. HP. seriously. Think back to the beginning of your R. MmmHmmm. I remember you told us about it here.
Females will always make themselves available at the very least, (not that the guy will notice) and usually approach a man that displays the appropriate characteristics. They will often not know why they want to be in proximity, or dissemble the reason why to him. Girls at this age are typically way ahead, socially and reproductively, then the boys. With the exception of Cemar, women are way more preoccupied with sex.
Oh noooooooooooo I'll get to worry about which guy they are thinking of offering oral sex since it doesn't "count".
according to the surveys sexual intercourse is down in the lower age groups. So are STD's. However, the older age groups (over 45?, 50?) STD's are way up. The herpes epidemic has been making the rounds at several college campuses according to recent newletters, however. In my estimation, the fact that BJ's are being given out like lollipops in the ~26 and unders is a way to appease the guy, while avoiding sex and the girl retaining her power. It seems to be almost a reflex action once a sexual situation starts.
MandDks I desperately wanted to get close to some girls, but I was deathly afraid that they would find out. Duh, they all knew! A large part of the dating game is creative dishonesty. Flattery is almost never purely factually accurate
Im curious what you mean by creative dishonesty. I am brutally honest, but I also like to 'play', just because its fun for me. Its not really necessary once your able to demonstrate certain attributes, and your boundaries are in tact. I was going to give an example of what I thought you meant, but Id rather get one from you. You may want to try using another word instead of an emotionally negative one (dishonest). The words we use affect how we see the world and react to it.
Funny thing about offering up an opinion when asked, though. You somehow gain a personal investment in what the other person then does.
