Things in Corri world are moving along well, and I see you all here are doing steady... that is very good.
Okay... I need some advice... and it isn't for me, it's for my son. I"m a little confounded by this one, I'll have to admit.
My S13 is in eighth grade and he likes this girl. He's just now getting into girls so he's a bit unsure of himself. Of course, the girl he likes 'talks' to him all the time, but she is 'going with' someone else... one of his friends.
Long story short, I told him to talk to this girl if he wanted, or not, if he wanted... but that he should widen his horizons and talk with other girls as well, especially since she's 'going with' one of his friends. (Jesus). This is the part that confounds me... he says to me, "Well, Mom, if I stop talking to her, she'll get mad at me. And then if she breaks up with XXX, she won't ask me out."
Whoa. Hold the phone. I said, "what?! In the world I'm from, the boys ask the girls out." And he said, "Not in my school. The girls ask the boys out."
Now... I'm all for girls feeling secure with themselves, and asking a guy out if they want... but my little guy is just learning things, and it seems to me that he's getting some very mixed messages. I had to chuckle to myself because as soon as I started talking to him and telling him a few things, he was following me all OVER the house, peppering me with questions.
Truth be told, however, I"m a little unsure as to how to proceed with this whole male/female education process. What do I tell him? How much do I tell him? I'm most concerned with his self-esteem and feeling secure about himself (and the whole sex ed talk... the REAL one, not the one about how babies are made... is just around the corner).
So... I'd really like to hear from my SSM buds on this one...
Yes - interesting isn't it? My DS14 has usually done the "asking" but only after the young lady in question makes her intentions obvious - usually a lot of sending instant messages and my spaces back and forth. It is weird and I don't know whether this changes as they get to be older teens or not. I have been pretty straightforward with my son and have found myself explaining a lot of feminine thinking patterns and what is healthy/unhealthy in feminine behavior so he can make informed choices. The part that I really need to discuss again is the parts of the sex talk that you are referencing - emotions, when, how to proceed, what are the dangers (emotional and physical) - I think the average age of having sex for the first time is around 15 - my son will be 15 in December.
My oldest daughter is now 15 and is a sophomore at a new high school here, which has the science academy. She decided not to apply for the academy but hangs out with all the kids there, plus kids on the tennis team. There seems to be a ton of social activities always going on, and with her social groups there is always a team of kids getting together to go to a party, the movies, football games, etc. My point is that the whole group does things together, boys and girls, and does not seem to get too caught up in one-on-one relationships. I see this as very helpful for my daughter. It has really helped her to develop, mature and learn about boys. I hope D13 can find the same types friends next year when she is a freshman.
What I am suggesting is that you suggest your son take some emphasis off dating per se and put more focus on group activities. That way he will get more experience with girls, learn from others how to deal with them, and maybe make a few close friends who are girls but not “girlfriends.” I think this system my D15 has is ideal. (BTW, she is said the other day that some of her friend who she thought had good families seem to be even more screwed up than ours! …. Lots of advantages to this group dynamic.)
In school today, there has been a lot of emphasis taken out of competitiveness. eg: teams play but no score is taken. There has also been an emasculination of the boys. eg: no cops and robbers. As part of that emasculination, the matcho male is not necessarily apreciated especially do to harrassment and its lack of definition thus requiring permission from the girl for anything. This may not be bad, but may have lead to the girl taking the initive and asking the guy since this grants permission to the boy for a certain level of involvement.
The school projects have placed a lot of attention on the team. Grades have been granted on the cooperative learning approaches, vs individual achievement.
There is definately a new paradime.
Hats off to Cobra on this one.
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
I agree that group outings are the best way to go. My son's group has only begun to do that. Mostly he goes places with the guys. Once in a while he has gone with a mixed group. He had one "movie date" with a girl that her best friend and parents also attended. The whole "going out" thing is primarily a school, phone and email contact and the occasional school dance activity. I guess since they don't drive yet there isn't a whole lot of one on one dating yet. Thank goodness!
A lot of the kids around here do the same thing you are talking about... there's this giant group of 'friends' and they all kind of go out together, but no one really 'dates.' Of course... this does not keep them from sexually exploring... a lot of 'oral' sex goes on between 'friends,' and since they are not having intercourse, they don't see this as having sex... just 'advanced making out.' (This is mostly at the high school level...gawd)
My son is certainly no where NEAR ready to start dating, and really, 'going with' someone in junior high really involves IMing each other, the myspace thing, movies, etc., doing things in groups, like you said.
That really wasn't where I was headed with it, though. I guess I'm wondering, as his mom, how to help him develop his confidence in his social skills, confidence in himself... how to help him find little 'successes' that will begin to be its own encouragement... kwis?
Now... believe it or not... we had a conversation about dancing. I told him, "S!3, if you want to be a hit with the girls, learn how to dance. Girls LOVE to dance. And I've been to a few of your school dances... every single boy there has serious white man's disease. Serious." (Which made him laugh, btw).
At first he balked at this suggestion, because he doesn't want to appear to be a sissy... yet... he's very analytical (I can't imagine where he gets THAT from)... and he really started thinking about it. He could see my logic. So he started asking me a few questions here and there. And I told him... "all it takes is for you to do it ONCE, with one girl... and they will LINE UP to dance with you. And THEN... they guys may kid you or tease you about it in a group... but I bet my bottom dollar, you'll have a few of your friends asking you in private if you'll teach them how to do it."
So he went away and thought about that... then 20 minutes later, he was back, asking me questions again. And he said, "but I'd be the only one who knows the dance, none of the girls will know how to do it. How do I dance with them if they don't know how to do it?"
And I told him... "Ah... that is the very, very best part. You get to teach them, and you can teach them one or two things very quickly (and they'll get it quickly, too). That will put you OVER THE TOP."
And I let it drop. I know he's thinking about it, and the reason why I KNOW he's thinking about it is because he watched 'Take the Lead,' with me the other night. Definitely an on-the-surface 'chick flick.' He's asked a few questions since then...
Quote: In school today, there has been a lot of emphasis taken out of competitiveness. eg: teams play but no score is taken. There has also been an emasculination of the boys. eg: no cops and robbers. As part of that emasculination, the matcho male is not necessarily apreciated especially do to harrassment and its lack of definition thus requiring permission from the girl for anything. This may not be bad, but may have lead to the girl taking the initive and asking the guy since this grants permission to the boy for a certain level of involvement.
VERY insightful post, LG!
I see this trend taking us into dangerous waters as a society...
Does this mean you will be sitting on the sofa, cleaning your weapons, and asking your son's date. 'Well dear when are you planning to have my boy home?'
"All I want is a weeks pay for a day's work" Steve Martin
My dad used to do this. Since there were 5 of us, he had very clean guns.
Corri, no advice except to tell him how it really is, which I have no doubt you would do anyway.
Girls asking the boys out, eh. Well I guess that takes care of the boy-adolescent-anxiety aspect of the mating ritual, but it will never work out in the long run because women do not respect men that can't take charge.
I suppose it is really dangerous to ask others for opinions on how to raise your kids. But that wasn't what I was really after, I guess.
I was just wondering... I suppose, from a male perspective... what mothers might have done in the guys' lives, as they were growing up, that helped them gain personal confidence. Maybe nothing. Maybe it isn't anytbing I can give to my son(s)... but I do know that it is something I certainly can TAKE from him. Isn't that weird?
He will find his way in the whole dating thing, of that I am sure. I don't really care about that so much as I care about him gaining a personal sense of self. If I can aide that, I want to... and I suppose the best way I can do that is to not hinder it, as much as I am able.
I keep going back to respect. Respect for self, and respect for others. He has an amazing sense of empathy... both of my kids do... not that they are saints. They have empathy for everyone in the world except for each other.
I dunno. I guess I was wondering from the guys... if you think you can answer this honestly... did you learn how to treat a woman from your mother or your father? I know 'mom's' are very important in the early years... and dad's probably more so in the later years...
Fck. I cannot BELIEVE I lost the one and only Parent Manual in existance.... <sh!t> what DID I DO with that thing?
So... if y'all don't feel you can answer, it's cool. I'm sure I"ll do what every other parent on the planet has done before me... make it up as I go along and hope for the best.
