I've bounced around the boards over the last year and a half after the bomb. We are piecing (again) and I could use support and advice from others who are piecing. It's such a roller coaster! I struggle with my attitude and efforts to keep moving forward and consistently do what works. Here are the stats:
M - 39 H (J) - 41 4 kids - S20, D12, S6, S3 Together 19 years. We D'd 6 years ago, but reconciled a year later, didnt remarry. Had 4 great years until H went into major depression, the bomb dropped in April 05, and we separated. He's been back home for almost 3 months. There was an OW involved and I focused that 24/7 last year. I've realized that was nothing to him and short lived, but it was a major blow to my self esteem. My anger, resentment, and impatience led to our last separation. The time apart helped me and H to heal and realize that we love each other and want our R to work. We're committed to keeping our family together, so this is it... for better or worse.
I'm having a hard time staying focused on my goals this week. J has been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder and OCD. The diagnosis was a relief in a way because now we understand what led to many of the things he's been through, but in another, it's hard because he'll likely deal with this for the rest of his life. Part of me being with him is going to be accepting that part of him and being patient and supportive. I've been controlling, angry and impatient. I've changed that behavior a lot, but still struggle with the disappointment of not getting what I want from the R.. my expectations raise their ugly head and my attitude goes to h*ll.
DB has helped me set some goals and discover things that work for us (unless I'm backsliding!). Things will be going along great, and them my Taker wakes up and starts asking why I have to make such an effort.. why J isnt "doing this" or "that" too. That's basically where I've been this week and I need to snap out of it!
The things that work are:
1. Keeping a PMA and Acting As If. When I'm smiling and happy, our R works much better. J is more positive and happy too. 2. Communicating directly what I need from him without nagging. Sharing my feelings without blaming. 3. Maintaining my GAL and taking good care of myself. 4. Being loving with my words and actions. 5. Not mothering him or trying to fix his problems, but listening and validating his feelings. This is a big one. 6. Not allowing his moods and OCD to affect my attitude. Realizing it's not about me and not responding to his passive agressiveness. 8. Initiating physical contact when I need it and accepting it when he offers it. Doing things that make me feel attractive and sexy and being that person regardless if he notices or not. 9. Being a good mother. He makes a lot of comments about what a great Mom I am and how much I love our children. He's said that he craves for himself the unconditional love and acceptance that I give them.
Things were great between us until last weekend. We have been communicating better and getting physically closer. We're doing some remodeling/redecorating and J was irritable. The house being torn apart makes him anxious and his OCD goes into high gear. This leads to him being short with everyone and passively communicating his irritablitely and unhappiness as if it's our fault. Drives me nuts. He makes comments and then swears nothing is wrong when we ask.
On Mon we had a long talk and he told me that his plate is full right now and he's struggling. He has stenosis and arthritis in his back and has been going for epidurals. He's afraid that he'll have to have surgery to fix the problem and although he had one 7 years ago that was successful, he's afraid another wouldn't go so smoothly. He has nerve pain radiating down his leg that he's dealing with daily. His mental health and his back are as much as he can deal with and both impact his attitude too. I was so happy that he shared that with me because in the past he would clam up and not talk. He hides things or lies, so talking openly is a big positive! OTOH, the convo left me sad because our "issues" will take a back seat right now, understandably. He needs to take care of himself and needs my support in that. This puts us on-hold with seeking MC.. something I agree has to wait, but am not thrilled about.
I feel like we've stalled out and I'm sad about that. But, I also know my attitude plays a big part in that too. We don't have to be stalled out unless I stop consistently doing what works because I do see baby steps forward when I'm thinking positively and contributing good things into the R. I guess I'm feeling cheated and sorry for myself. It occurred to me this week that I'm on the verge of having a mature R where everything isnt perfect and like a fairy tale if I'll accept that!
I've been quiet and detached this week. Trying to work through my disappointment and get back to a good place. J has noticed and asked me several times if I'm OK. Our physical R isnt the best and that's a biggie to me. My LL is physical touch. J doesnt need that as much, but has been trying. We can't ML when he's in pain of course and I'm having a pity party about that too! We have a history of me being HD, him LD. When we're not affectionate, I get into a funk. I start feeling rejected, undesirable and unloved. I've learned that a lot of that has to do with my attitude, but it's hard to maintain. If I'm acting desirable and approach him for affection he responds positively, but then I go back to wanting him to want it as much as me and being disappointed when he doesnt.
This is long, and there is much more. I guess I just need to get out of my funk and be consistent. I've been distant and cold to J and that's not helping things. Sometimes I think I should just accept that we can live together and be co-parents without having a strong, intimate personal R, but that not going to make either of us happy either.
So, today, I'm going to stop pushing him away and try to be positive and act as if. There's a lot to get done here before the holidays too. If I can keep a positive momentum going and be patient while J is dealing with his issues, we'll likely get to better places in the new year.
Ideas, advice, etc would be much appreciated!! Thanks for listening!
It sounds like you are disappointed in the R. Is it primarily about the physical intimacy? Have you two made progress in this area? Has he acknowledged what he needs to work on to make this better?
I wasn't able to acknowledge my intimacy issues until after the separation. I was blinded by my anger about the R at the time, and focused on her issues. I can now acknowledge that I need to work on enhancing my desire, and improving my sexual skills. It's still easy to fall back into old patterns. I have to work on this because my W isn't happy with our current frequency, even though we used to go 1-3 months between sexual encounters.
Concerned_Listener
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Good questions. I wouldnt say our problem is primarily physical intimacy, but not having a good physical R causes much disappointment and frustration for me. For years I thought it must be a symptom of our R problems and that if I could just fix what I was doing wrong, we'd be more intimate emotionally and physically. While that's true to an extent - anger and controlling behavior definately kills that - the other part of the problem is that J and I approach intimacy and love differently. It's hard for me to explain and him to understand that it's not the physical act of lovemaking, but having a strong and ongoing physical/intimate R that is so important to me. It becomes almost an insult when I feel ignored and then every two weeks we ML and that's supposed to fix the problem because the physical urge is satisfied. I'm talking more about sharing my sexuality and expressing my love to him one on one and feeling comfortable sharing that part of myself and knowing that part of him too.
I've let this impact my self esteem over the years and ignored my sexuality. He asks me what does success look like and I can't tell him exactly because I don't know what a satisfying physical/sexual R is for me. It'd probably just involve some one on one time every day and physical closeness of some sort and not necessarily ML. I could say I'd like it 4 days a week, but with kids and schedules that's way unrealistic for either of us to maintain. Maybe I just want to be seen and heard on this issue? I do realize a part of this is because I want to feel desireable and I'm working very hard on that. To BE desirable and own that within myself. The next step may be for me to continually express that and share that without fear and see what happens.
We have other issues. Before the bomb, J basically checked out of the R emotionally. He was irritable, distant and cold.. we didnt communicate well, and when we did, it ended in an argument. A lot of our probs deal with the sharing of responsibilities too. I see him as a passive participant and unwilling to step up and take responsibility or charge of much. He has told a lot of lies over the years and been financially irresponsible, so there are trust issues as well. That is getting better. And, he acknowledges the problems in a way that he hasn't before, so that's a baby step. I'm also realizing my contribution to the R probs, and for my stubborn a**, that's amazing! I've pretty much been a self righteous B for years.. with all the answers of course.. the victim of his insensitivity and irresponsibility. Attractive, huh?
We're getting there.. I need to focus heartily on that and learn to have faith in the baby steps.
You said that things are good once they get going in the bedroom. We have the same dynamic here. It frustrates me to always initiate, but perhaps I should set that aside and keep initiating? Do you think that more ongoing contact could awake the desire to the point that he might start craving or intiating too? He keeps saying he WANTS to be physically close to me, but it's not the priority. Sometimes he sets it aside because he thinks it's a bad time, I'm tired, etc and decides to wait until later and the next thing we know, weeks have passed.
He did ask me this afternoon if I thought taking some time every evening before bed to be close in "some" way physically would help. We're going to try that and see where it goes and if it satisfies my need for physical touch. And we talked about responsibilities also for a bit. His C told him last month that he can't expect me to carry the burden for him and that he has to be willing to accept responsibility for something around here. Basically, I'm not his momma, so stop acting like it. It's like he'll do what I ask, or ask me how he can help, but won't just see what needs to be done and get it done. I have a constant running list of things that's overwhelming and a partner i can't hand any of it off too and be sure he'll come through for us. Even little things like asking him to check the air in my tires.. well, he'll say he'll do it, but the follow through isnt there. I do the finances, decide what we eat, laundry, maintain our schedule, etc and he helps, but doesnt take charge. Anyway, we talked and he said we'd talk about distributing responsibilities some. I know this is scary for him. He has anxiety issues and can't overload himself, but even just a small step to take charge of something on a regular basis would be great. I'd like not to worry about every single detail of our lives every single day.
It sounds like the nurturing/motherly type relationship. That's a recipe for disaster as far as physical intimacy goes.
Like you said, he needs to step up and take on some responsibility. Your his partner, not his Mother. This could kill the physical attraction for both of you eventually if it's not addressed.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
Piglet, You're frustration with the R jumps right out of my computer screen! I can see that your challenge is to accept where he and the R are at this time, manage your emotions so that you inflict no further harm to the R, communicate in a positive way to let him know how the R influences you, and figure out how to influence and help him achieve the behaviors you believe are important for him, and that he acknowledges he needs to work on.
How well do you think you're doing?
Concerned_Listener
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Quote: It sounds like the nurturing/motherly type relationship. That's a recipe for disaster as far as physical intimacy goes.
Well that pretty much sums up my sitch. Scary, huh? I, like you, pretty much handle everything. Yes, H helps out but really isn't "in charge" of anything.
You hit the nail on the head CL. I'm very frustrated, let my emotions overwhelm me, and yeah, then I open my mouth and damage the R even more.
I think I do well on a daily basis, but then it builds up and I have my say. Not good. I'm doing better, but I'm definately not there yet. He's accused me of running a list of what he does wrong and that's true.
So, I'm not doing good at managing my emotions and disappointment. I communicate positively sometimes, but it goes down the tubes at times too.
So, on my part I feel overburdened by responsibility and like my need for an intimate/romantic partnership isn't being met. Gotta figure out what I can contribute to change that. Here are some thoughts.
1. Ask for help. It's not the same as him taking responsibility, but if he starts to do things and feel confident about them, he might get to the point of being in charge of a thing or two.
2. Time out. I need to figure out how to de-stress and deal with my negative emotions and anger when it's overwhelming. Exercise might help with that. I've slacked off going to the gym. Journalling might relieve it too.
Counting the positives. I get negative and forget to really do that. He acknowledges the problems and wants to work to make it better. That is a blessing that I tend to forget because I want it to be fixed today or yesterday.
As far as intimacy.. it's hard to be intimate when we have these other issues. He faithfully hugs and kisses me every day and says ILU. He's being very gentle and loving with me really. Another positive because last year it wasnt like that.
My C said that I'm letting fear control me. That I do well, but then thinking about all that we need to change, can't see big progress and envision the future to be full of the same hurts as in the past. Then I convince myself that if he just understood, he'd change. I open my mouth and try to force the change by demanding it. He reassures me and makes promises and the cycle starts over again. Ughhh.
It's much better than it was. I have to keep telling myself that. I see positives, and there's a light at the end of the tunnel, no matter how long. I know I should be controlling my expectations and being patient. It's soooo hard! I keep thinking about the analogy of the pizza guy showing up and stopping an argument in it's tracks. I do have control over this. I have to want it enough to exercise it.
Exactly. I'd love to learn how to change that dynamic. Someone suggested a book - "Getting to I Do" It's supposed to be about the dynamics of passivity and control in an R. I ordered it, but it got lost in the mail. Need to try again.
He grew up with a mother that handled everything and she still does for his Dad. She demanded that type of control over her household. I don't need that! J has said that I do and I can see where that comes from, but honestly, I don't gripe about "how" he does things.. I'd just like him to do more - hence, I wanna control him because I tell him what he needs to be doing for us.
I read a bible study at 4:30 this morning.. worrying about changing what I'm communicating. It basically suggested that for 30 days make a pact to not say one negative thing about your H to him or anyone, but pick one positive thing every day. Negative for me would be making motherly statements too, like "you should park over there", "have you made a C appt yet?" "pick up your clothes and take them to the laundry", etc I do say things to him like I say to the kids. Yesterday he asked me where I wanted him to put the yogurt while we were putting away groceries! WTF? I have no idea where yogurt should go, nor do I care, but evidently I'm the authority and he asks so he can please me by doing the right thing.
Quote: He's accused me of running a list of what he does wrong and that's true.
Girl, this was my downfall. Even if I didn't always come out and say it, the attitude permeated the house and he knew anyway. Watch out for this; it's a POISON to a happy M where the partners are a TEAM.
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
Thanks believing. It helps me to see where I'm poisoning our R. That's definately something I need to work on also. My S20 has said that I keep a list of wrongs and that it's painful. It's a matter of expecations, acceptance and forgiveness I think. That's one of the reasons I'm trying to focus on these faults and correct them. H isnt where I wanted/want him to be and I'm not where I should be either. We all have our faults and I'm hoping the more I focus on me, the less I'll focus on him and along the way learn firsthand how hard it is to change something that's become ingrained.
I had a friend advice me months ago to live as if J wasnt here and stop concentrating on what he's not doing. He's wise. He said what's the difference... if you're not together you'll shoulder all of the burden, why not shoulder it willingly in order to keep your family together and have faith that he'll get there without continually nagging about it. He countered that with not setting to high of expectations for myself and suggested that I ask lovingly for help and advice when I need it instead of assuming that J can read my mind.
Lots to think about and process. I appreciate the insight from the board!
