So the bomb got dropped again last night, though with nuances, by her, without any prompting from me, after we watched a movie. Here is the skinny:
O W said she believes a divorce would have bad effects, especially on our kids, relatives and our social network. So she doesn’t want to get divorced.
O W wants to start seeing and sleeping with other people, though, this because
O I am not and never will be strong enough to match her in personality – “all of the boy friends I ever really loved were strong”, “I can always baffle you and win an argument”, “my dad (who passed away long ago) would have dissuaded me from marrying you” etc.
O I therefore should stop being celibate and start seeing other people also, “which just naturally happens”.
O This way we could protect the kids, our relatives and our social network – by sugar coating the divorce - keep the house, the kids’ schools, etc.
My reaction:
O “I want to work at fixing our relation” - if she wants with her - but at the least by improving me. “I know you need pushback and am working on exactly that”.
O I said that I promised to be faithful to her and will stick to my moral standards. “My vision of marriage doesn’t’ include sleeping around”.
O I said that I have no solution to her quandary – by my seeing new people, which I won’t do, she could legitimately do so also.
So we are back to square one, to a state of Mutual Assured Destruction (to use Cold War terminology), in spite of my efforts and patience. What now? She wants to have her cake and eat it too – equal guilt makes it all okay.
Frustrated, and having poorly slept, on a reasonably nice day - Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
All I can say is she doesn't seem to be thinking clearly right now. Stay together but be apart? STick to your guns, dont sacrifice your morals and keep your head up.
Luke, for the moment I just want to say I'm so sorry this has happened. It is indeed a "bomb" when it is dropped. It amazes me that the thought of counselling is never in their mindset. Your W has worked it all out in her head to fit what she wants to do. My W did the same. Counselling might screw up their little script. Did you suggest counselling? Maybe you could sell it as a means to be better parents through this, or even just to look at waht the future holds. yes, my W also wants to stay together because it would be upsetting for the children. I wanna say "if you care so much about the kids then why not work on your M?" Ahh, dreams we have! Again, I know the pain you are having right now. I remember one night after the bomb, I woke up in the morning thinking "Whew, what a horrible dream" then I realized it wasn't a dream, it was now my life. Keep your chin up and realize that she's still there and the beauty of DB is that she doesn't have to want it to work for it TO work! Action creates reaction. Got to go. Take care of you today.
Thanks for the sympathy. This wasn't the first time the bomb came, it has come about once per year over the last three. This time, there was no anger in her voice, and we could talk rationally, but wow, what a lousy message to hear.
Have you heard of some sort of 'become an alpha male' course or I understand testosterone shots make you more dominant (not serious about the latter ...)?
Thanks -
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
I've learned quite a bit from it and it is just more techniques to learn and use since it's not entirely the way we act as males. But, it is the way we should act.
I would also recommend reading Frank D's stuff here on the boards. He is the one that recommended that site to me.
Don't forget to breathe!!!
M-35 going on 15 D-8 S- 3 yrs ex-CL(w)- 30
D over one year
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. Douglas Adams "Just Be"
I am so sorry to hear this news...so, her idea is to save "face" to the neighbors, friends and family by "looking" like a happy home - but - each to have their own OP for intimacy? That's alot to stomach...
Luke, I would highly suggest that you find a solution-based counselor to talk with on a one to one basis. Her trying to pre-plan how the R should be is utterly ridiculous.
I find it rather interesting that she has, in the past three years, decided that you aren't strong enough for her particular needs - why then, did she agree to marry you in the first place? Did she do it to defy "daddy"? Was it b/c she felt sorry for you? Were you "so weak" of a man that she thought she could change you?
I think at this point, you need a professional involved to sort this out. You W may or may not want to go with you - if not, that's okay, as well...it just seems that your W's expectations of your role in this M may/may not be something "you" can live with.
I'm not sure anyone can live in a R, like the one she wants.
LL, I agree with 1210 that you need help from a professional on this.
I would also say to you that you have your own boundaries that you have to establish with her that she cannot cross. This is probably one of them Luke, she cannot expect more out of you than you can give. I have to tell you that in my gut I would say she may be testing you to see how much you will tolerate. I can't imagine anyone beleiving that this is a good idea and believing that their spouse would accept the idea.
Anyway Luke, I dont have a lot of time this am, just checking in with you and when I saw this.... had to say something. Remember we established that only you can determine what being a man is, well also only you can determine how much that man is willing to take befoore he says no more.
Thanks for all your mails and thoughts. There are a couple in particular that I took to heart - the MakingHerHappy link (yeah, it does feel like she is testing me sometimes, maybe even now, or maybe expressing in an extreme way a cry for help), the professional help idea (have had 3 DB sessions, but widely spaced; could try here in Sweden, but we have a high divorce rate and I want to be sure that an improved marriage is the goal, not an 'easy Swedish solution' with us divorced), and to look up FrankD's posts, which I'll do after this.
W is in Stockholm just now, giving a corporate identity presentation.
Weightlifting going fine and marathon training started, blue sky, but with light gray coulds covering parts, small waves going every which way on the lake,
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
O I am not and never will be strong enough to match her in personality – “all of the boy friends I ever really loved were strong”, “I can always baffle you and win an argument”, “my dad (who passed away long ago) would have dissuaded me from marrying you” etc.
Give me a break!!!!!! That's too ridiculous. In general women often have better verbal skills while men are often more physical, good at math, fixing things, etc...
Well keep DBing and work on you. All the physical stuff you're doing (working out) sounds great!!! Get those endorphins going!
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
Sorry to hear about your trials and tribulations, LuckyLuke. You're right about the "easy Swedish solution". I've seen quite a few divorces since I got here in 1990. Don't have much to add, just sending positive vibes your way.
