The fat lady is warming up....

[OldFool]

Greetings fellow DB'ers

I've been lurking here for the last four weeks while my life has fallen apart as the result of a WAW. I'm posting now as "therapy", to chronical what's happened for my benefit (and perhaps the benefit of others) and to get thoughts and input from others who have been down the road a bit further than I.

Our R hadn't been that great for a couple years as my W devoted more and more of herself to her work. She told me she wanted to be more "social", but with her working four 10+ hour days, it was harder to do during the week and on the weekends when she was rested up (she doesn't work Fridays), I was wasted. In fairness, however, I should have tried harder here and I also should have more strongly encouraged her to adjust her work schedule such that I could accommodate better.

In turn, I kept telling her I was running out of energy trying to support us both emotionally (she gave her support to work and work-related friends, then came to me to recharge and left me nothing). Sadly, our sex life wasn't great so I couldn't use that to recharge either.

Finally, I warned her the well was running dry...but to no effect and near the first of the year when I had no more to give, I just shut down. When that happened, she checked out and stopped wearing her wedding ring (I didn't know the former had happened and didn't notice the latter).

By early summer, she was a GW...rarely home, always out partying, at dinner, with friends. If I said everything was OK and I didn't care what she was doing, I was "distant". If I said I cared and argued about it, I was "mean" and "didn't understand her". As things went on, 10:30pm, 11pm, midnight, 1:30am all became common times for her to arrive home. I was finding it difficult to cope with this and wasn't sure what was going on or what to do.

In late August, W said she wanted to move out to "get some space" and "figure some stuff out". I was glad to hear it. I thought this might be what she needed and her statements led me to believe it was a temporary (in months...but not years) thing. It also would get us out of a situation where she was regularly hurting me and I was having trouble keeping myself from responding in kind (though I mostly did).

A few weeks later she'd found a place and made plans to move in the first week of October. I was sick about it, but hopeful that this would help give us a kind of timeout. We had dinner the night of our anniversary and I asked her to consider what we could do. She was an emotional wreck and all over the place...except for not wanting what we had.

Near the end of the month, we met with a marriage counselor and a few days after that, I discovered evidence of a several-month PA with OM at her work. Just devastated. Never dreamed she would be capable of it (I'm still having trouble believing it). I confronted her and she lied about it...until I produced the evidence. Then she caved and admitted the whole thing. Found she'd been with him in our home 48 hours before our anniversary and talked with him just minutes before we sat down to dinner that night. My whole world was spinning out of control and I felt like I couldn't breath.

By that time she hadn't been sleeping in the house and after my discovery, I packed up her stuff and told her to get it the next day. I made it through that awful day...but then fell completely apart for the next several days. In our counseling session, she'd said I didn't love her or think she was attractive or desirable (none of which were true) so I figured I need to correct that.

I hadn't yet found this site and my attempts were probably seen as "pursuing". A week later she came to the house to pick up some remaining items and I asked what she was going to do. She said all the standard stuff. We'd changed, marrying me was a mistake, she loved me but wasn't *in* love with me, she couldn't come home and wasn't sure she could *ever* come home. This was all sounding more permanent than temporary and I pulled out all the stops, alternately reasoning and pleading. I called a few times...but thankfully not too many and I didn't engage in spying or other negative behaviors.

Of course, all this was to no avail. The only good thing was that weekend I discovered this site and set about making some changes. I did a mini-180 and told her I was tired of her blaming me for everything that had gone wrong (which she is still doing), that I would go to counseling and work on my problems but I wouldn't be her whipping boy, and that if she felt she had to leave, I wouldn't fight her.

Then I disengaged for a bit. She would call occassionally, but I'd keep them short and didn't initiate. One night, she came over to divide the pictures and Christmas ornaments. It was the hardest night (apart from discovering the affair) I've ever had. She was a whirlwind...too afraid to stop and think or feel anything.

At one point I asked her what we were doing. Her response was ice cold..."We are *so* over". It felt like the blood drained out of me. She cancelled our joint counseling session the next night and had me served with D papers the day after that. One month from what I thought was a troubled but stable marriage to the big D. It was all too much too fast.

Then I went dark. Just brief e-mail messages dealing with necessary topics such as splitting accounts, mail, attorneys, etc. and the occassional light note (such as someone I'd seen or something I'd done). No talk of her, the R, or much of anything else and *no* phone conversations.

She still want's to go to joint counseling so "I can understand why she abandoned the marriage" and so "we can part friends". She's not only burned several bridges, she's all but obliterated any trace of them so I'm dubious. Still, I'm going in the hope that I can get something from the exercise beyond a further twisting of the knife.

Staying dark for now and letting the lawyers do their thing. W seems intent on a D and the sooner the better. I've told her I'll go along with it as long as it's fair. At this point, I figure there's no point in postponing the inevitable. They say where there's life, there's hope and I do believe in miracles. But that's exactly what it's going to take. In my heart I've already said goodbye.

To those who have posted, thank you. I've read a lot and received encouragement from some and a real reality check from others. Both are, I suppose, necessary.

[alamogirl]

Hi oldfool,

Well, this morning at our joint couneling session, my WAH told me that he was ready to file D papers. All this week, I've been having the same pit in my stomach...you know, the one I had the same week H left. It's so weird that you can sense stuff like that.

Anyway, he told me in front of our counselor that he just wanted to concentrate on school and move on. My counselor asked him, "And what will that be like?" My H said that he didn't know but that he was prepared to accept what life had to offer.

Of course, I felt horrible. We've been separated for 5 months. He dropped the bomb on 3 Jun 06. I told my counselor if that's what he wanted, than so be it. I wasn't going to beg or hang on to him. My counselor said to my H, "Well, it still seems that you're a little indecisive." Then he said, "I don't hear the fat lady singing." That made us both laugh, but the fat lady is definitely warming up for me too.

When my H first left, he said that he couldn't stand that our sex life went down the tubes. He mainly used that as a reason, but now, I know that it was just an excuse. I know that a marriage cannot survive without sex, but if no sex was the only reason, don't you think H would be more than willing to give us another try? I do.

I just think H snapped. He's the type that cracks under pressure. I realized this after we were married, but I never thought in a million years that he would walk away from the marriage. Even though we had been having problems for about 2 years prior, I just thought things would work themselves out.

Lots of married people go through droughts. Just the other day, I was talking to one of my good friends, and she was telling me that she's been happily married for 24 years, and the last 5 years, have been sexless. She said the passion was gone but that they still loved each other and couldn't picture themselves with other people. I think a lot of people are in that situation. I guess people like your WAW and my WAH don't want to settle for those types of relationships.

My H and I were also great friends. I thought friendship would sustain us through the drought. He said he wasn't seeing anyone, and that's not the reason why he left. He still wants to be part of my life after the divorce as a friend. He told me that he knows that I'm going to need a lot of help with the house. We bought my old childhood home together, and we made lots of renovations. That was the start of our problems. We dug ourselves into a hole, and eventually, we ended up filing for bankruptcy. I didn't know this, but my counselor said that the majority of couples who file for bankruptcy get divorced.

I'm sorry about your pain. It does help to talk about it with others going through the same thing.

Take care.
alamogirl

[OldFool]

My condolences to you. I agree with your statement about sex. I suspect it was an excuse. I wasn't getting enough of the sex part (or the intimacy part...which I readily admit I didn't realize I needed so much at the time) in my M, but I would never have thought of leaving my W over it!! Like you, I've always believed that Rs have their highs and lows and that you get through them and move on. Nothing is permanent.

Not everyone apparently agrees and I think there is a very real "grass is greener" element that comes into play. I was very realistic when I married (of course, I was 33 at the time) so I expected work, sacrifice, and hardships. Not all of those all the time, mind you, but some of all of them over different times.

I suspect that my W (who was 23 at the time) did not and I think it ultimately messed things up. In marketing they say perception is reality. And they're right. If my W perceives that things will be better elsewhere, that's where she's going to head. This is a logical response, provided that things truly *will* be better elsewhere.

It's also consistent with Michelle's statements regarding how society in general treats divorce as a relatively painless thing where everyone just decides to part and no one is ever really hurt, the kids are fine, and the whole group are best friends after its all over. What rubbish!

But the biggest problem for my W is that she's carrying a lot of baggage and she's going to take that with her and that's likely to result in things *not* being better elsewhere. But then I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

My M is headed for D with a bullet (thanks to my W) so I have no realistic hope of any progress anytime soon. She is an intelligent woman, but I've discovered she's the kind that can't successfully be told about the pain...she has to feel it for herself. So I expect she'll have to "hit bottom" before there's any chance at a turnaround (not that I think there is).

Of course, that may take place too late for me. I'm moving on, but leaving the door open at this point. But I won't be one of those people who are still here in four years desperately hoping for even a nod, a smile, or a hug from the X. While I do think there is a window of opportunity for reconciliation, I'm having trouble seeing anything useful after a year or two.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm doing surprisingly well, all things considered, but remain deeply saddened by the loss and stunned at how quickly it all turned to dust.

[alamogirl]

Hi oldfool,

Today, I met with a girlfriend of mine, Paula. I was telling her about my counseling session and what transpired (divorce). She just found it incredible that he rather dump the marriage than dump school. My H said that school and "us" are too much to deal with right now, so he's picked school over our marrige. I guess I hadn't really thought about it until she said it.

I still can't believe this is happening. The thought of starting over is overwhelming. I always envisioned myself happily married at 49 years old, not looking for a divorce lawyer.

Why do you think he still wants to work on the house? I don't know if I can handle just being his friend.

Take care.

alamogirl

[OldFool]

I don't know about the house thing. Perhaps someone else reading this thread will have more insight. However, from what I've read elsewhere, it seems there may be no way of knowing or deducing what his involvement with the house means if it means anything at all. He may not even know.

At least your H doesn't appear to be rushing to the D like my W is. Right now she can't seem to get it quick enough. You, however, may have a small opportunity to do some kinds of work that aren't an option for me at this point.

Are you and H living under the same roof or has he/you moved out? Any joint or individual counseling? Has he filed (it's always easier to talk about it than actually do it)?

Just some questions that might help someone else give you more insight than I can supply with my limited experience. I feel confident sharing what I've gone through and what's helped me to this point...but I'm reluctant to offer "advice" in other areas where my comments would be more akin to speculation.

[alamogirl]

Hi oldfool,

My H moved into an apartment (Jun 06) about 2 weeks after he announced he was leaving. He is sharing a two-bedroom apt with his son.

I am in individual and joint counseling. I do plan to continue individual counseling. Since my H announced to me that he was ready to file D papers, we will discontinue our joint sessions. What's the point? He has not filed.

The house was so quiet tonight. I could almost hear my heart beating. When my H lived at home, it was always noisy. He was always playing with the dogs and the TV was always on. He also listened to radio talk show. I remember how I used to complain when he used to drag me to Home Depot or Lowe's. He used to bribe me with an ice-cream sundae at Sonic. How I wish I could turn back the time...sigh.

I don't know if you do this, but I've been thinking of the months leading to our breakup. I remember the weekend before the breakup. He was diligently cleaning the bedroom windows. I remember, he installed a shelf for me in the kitchen and asked me what I was planning to use it for. At the time, I thought it odd because we had already decided to use it as a message center. We even went to 4 different hardware stores looking for the right brackets to install the shelf. I remember the week that he left, he slept in our bed maybe once. I remember waking up in the middle of the night with this awful gut feeling. I just knew something was wrong.

The Friday before he left, we were hanging out in the backyard playing with our dogs and having a couple of beers. He seemed like his old self. I know that I wouldn't have been able to pull off something like that. If I was the one who left, there is no way I would have been hanging out with my H right the night before. It's almost like he was "celebrating" his last night as husband and wife.

He left the following Saturday right after he came back from a golfing event. I was on my way to my niece's HS graduation, and we passed each other as I headed out the door. Something didn't seem right, and I felt uneasy the whole time I was driving to the event. I almost returned home. I didn't enjoy myself at the graduation because I felt like someone had kicked my gut. That feeling was back. When the graduation ended, and I congratulated my niece, I couldn't wait to get out of there. As I was driving home, I called the house to let him know I was on my way home as we were accustomed to doing. There was no answer. I called his cell, and again, no answer. I left messages on both. When I arrived home, his car was gone. I went inside the house and the house was unusually quiet and dark. He always left his desk lamp and the radio on in his office. This time--dead silence. I changed clothes and called my H again--no answer and left another message. I started panicking and something told me to go inside his office. I went inside, didn't see anything unusual, and as I was about to walk out the door, I saw "it." There was a note on his desk. I picked it up, and to tell you the truth, I still didn't realize what I was about to read. Then I saw the word "leaving," and then I lost it. I remember running through the hallway saying, "No, no, no." After I finally composed myself, I called again, this time telling him that I found his note. He called me back, and he came home to talk. I'll never forget that evening!

I'm sorry to be going on and on. I don't think I've done this much venting on these boards. You just seem like a nice person who is easy to "talk" to.

I guess, I'll end this post . Thanks for listening.

alamogirl

[OldFool]

Go ahead and vent, ramble, or what have you. This is the place to get your thoughts and feelings out in the open. They seem easier to deal with then, don't they? Of course, normally we'd be doing this with our spouses, but under the circumstances, most of us can't...or at least shouldn't.

By the way, I don't have a problem sharing this thread with you, but folks might not find you buried here under my thread. If you want more visibility (and probably more responses from other people), you might consider starting your own new thread with a review of your sitch and asking for advice. I'm early enough on in this whole thing that I can only offer help on the freshman parts of DBing. The more advanced stuff is beyond me right now.

At any rate, I know about the empty house thing. Friday nights we used to spend together. Now the house feels like a tomb. Last Friday night I forced myself to spend it alone for the first time since WAWs departure (before I was seeing friends or family). It was tough...but not as bad as I expected.

Like you, certain things make you miss the old times more than others. Funny, but they always seem to be the little things. For me, two things I miss are taking walks with my W and shopping with her. Now I do these alone and it just reminds me how much has been lost (for both of us).

I also know about going through everything in your mind over and over. In my case, because of the PA, everything (and I mean *everything*) took on new possible meanings. Some I could confirm, others I could not and probably never will be able to. But ultimately it's a dead end street because you may never know what your H was thinking, trying to do, or meant. In fact, he may never fully know or understand.

The WAS is often dealing with multiple problems and while it may be tempting to try and apply logic to the whole thing (I know that was *my* gut reaction), it may be they are being driven by emotions that defy logic. If that is the case, then trying to understand everything will be a frustrating and ultimately unfulfilling endeavor.

Personally, I've come to the place where I can give it up and deal with the immediate moment. I'm not worried about why something happened, or what it "meant", or anything like that. I look at my goals, evaluate what has transpired, and decide what response should be made that I think will move me closer to my goals. I don't know if there is anything else for me to do (given my sitch).

My heart aches for the way in which you found your H had left. I was "lucky"...for lack of a better word...in my sitch as I discovered my WAW was having a PA with OM just 48 hours before she was going to move out (I knew she was planning to go). While this hurt *a lot*, the shock of it was so great that I was numb for a couple of days so it wasn't quite the kick in the gut you had. Of course, after the numbness wore off, the pain was just horrible...but probably no greater than yours.

Like you, I'll never forget the night I found out my W had betrayed me. I now have four anniversaries. The date we first met, the date we got married, the date I dicovered she'd cheated on me, and the date she had the D papers served to me. I guess the only one left now is the date the D becomes final.

As to joint counseling, do you have a marriage-supporting counselor? If you do, s/he should be working with you to save the marriage (I assume you've read the sections in DR about therapists/counselors). I can't tell you what you should do in your sitch as I neither fully know it nor am I qualified to offer such counsel.

But I can tell you I've stayed with joint counseling (on an every-other-one basis...one joint, one individual, one joint, etc.). My WAW has already filed for D, but the best hope of getting anything resolved is for her to be involved at least a little bit (particularly since we're separated now). Most important, at this point she still wants to go.

I stick to the LRT, have gone dark (essentially), and am working to GAL. In individual counseling, I work on identifying my problems and developing methods for eliminating or mitigating them. In joint counseling, I let her and the counselor take the lead. That ends up meaning I take the blame for a lot of stuff, but if it keeps my WAW talking about things she couldn't deal with inside the marriage, then I think it's good for us both (though certainly more painful and hurtful on my end).

So before you can the joint stuff, I'd encourage you to give it serious consideration and to talk with your counselor (individually, of course) about it. See if s/he believes there is value in it.

Finally, just because a D is in the works doesn't mean you have to give up all hope. I'm very realistic about my chances (small to nil) and you should be too. But miracles can...and do...happen. Proof of that is in this true story (which transpired over roughly a year's period near two years ago).

An acquaintance of mine had gotten tired of her H. She thought he was the cause of their bad marriage and that to be happy, she had to get rid of him. She told him she wanted out and forced him to move out of their house. She filed for D and they split everything up (even selling the house and dividing the proceeds). It was all done and the only thing left was to sign the papers.

But a funny thing happened on the way to the D. My acquaintence began to realize that some of the problems they were having were *her* fault and that leaving her H wouldn't resolve all the things she had hoped.

One night they got together to sign the D papers and make it official. They did...and then spent all night crying about it. Each came to the conclusion that if they felt that bad, then maybe it wasn't the right thing to do.

So they began to talk, went to see their church pastor, began "dating" again, and ultimately remarried each other (now their "second" marriage each...but to the same spouse). They're now happy and getting better with additional counseling. Which just goes to show, you never really know what's going to happen until it does.

So be realistic, but don't lose faith. Keep working the best you can on the things you control and let God handle the rest. It's not easy (particularly for people like me), but I think it will prove worthwhile in the end.

God bless.

[alamogirl]

Hi oldfool, I guess one of the reasons I like "talking" to you is because you're in the exact same boat as I am. I've gotten advice from other people, and terrific as it may be, most posters are way too advanced for me. Also, you write in English where most people use acronyms...ha!

My next "individual" counseling is next month. I guess I'll wait until them to ask if I should continue joint counseling. Actually, my H only agreed to attend joint counseling to give me closure...how considerate of him. I remember reading about choosing therapists in Michele's book. How do you know which therapist is all about piecing your marriage back together? I chose this counselor based on prior experience with him. When my stepson was living with us, we all attended family counseling with the therapist H and I are seeing. Even though he did say that he wasn't much of a "couple" counselor, he is an excellent family counselor. Maybe I goofed, I don't know.

I also noticed that lots of posters have been reading this thread, so I figured people would jump right in. I guess I'm not asking for guidance right now. I'm just finding a comfortable place to be .

I do pray to G-d and ask for strength each day. I also pray that G-d will heal our marriage. I'm not Catholic, but I found myself sending a prayer request to Father Peter Rookey. He's a Catholic priest who is a faithful (and powerful) servant of G-d. He lays hands and BAM, you're on the floor. I've been to him before for prayer. Of course, he gives all credit to G-d. After my H said he was ready to file D papers, I sent Fr. Rookey a prayer request. He's probably getting tired of my requests. I think this is the 3rd one , but I did send a donation.

I like to hear encouraging stories such as the one you told. It gives me hope. One of my good friends recently reconciled with her H. They got separated Sep 05. Last month after 1 year of being separated, they decided to get back together. He's in the military stationed at Patrick. She leaves right after finals...I think 6 Dec. I will miss her, but I'm very happy for her.

Ok, my friend, I've got to get back to work.

alamogirl

[OldFool]

With regard to choosing a counselor, re-read the section starting on the bottom half of page 131 in DR (and also the "Well-meaning Therapists" section starting on page 29). The former will give you tips on what to look for and the latter will give you ideas on what to avoid.

As for determining if you have one that's right, just ask (so to speak). For example, ask your or a prospective counselor (in an individual session) some key open-ended questions to elicit their philosophy. Examples might include:

"What marriages can't be saved?" (the answer should be something along the lines of "none, as long as physical, emotional, or substanced abuse is not involved.").

"Are you solution (or progress or goal) based/oriented?" (the answer should be yes with illustrations of how).

"Given my situation, what short-term goals would you have for me/us?" (the answer should be a couple of concrete things that mesh with your goals such as getting your husband involved in counseling).

"Have you had training specifically in couples therapy?" (the answer should be an unequivocal "yes").

"Are you familiar with Michele Weiner-Davis, her philosophy, or her books Divorce Busting or Divorce Remedy? (a "no" answer isn't a deal breaker...but a "yes" would put you miles ahead).

I'm sure your counselor is fine, but if he's already stated he's not really a couples counselor, I'd ask a few hard questions. If s/hes going to be any help, your counselor doesn't have to be squarely in your corner (nor should s/he be), but s/he *does* need to be squarely behind saving the marriage. This person may ultimately have to put in as much effort as you and they're only going to be able to do that if they're truly committed to the concept.

As for your H just giving you "closure", try not to let it bother you. That's the only reason my WAW wants joint counseling too. I know what you're saying, though. It's a strange animal that can rip your heart out, grind it under their heel, and then be concerned you may not have "closure".

But remember that "closure" is more for their benefit than yours. If they can get you to agree that it's OK, maybe its for the best, or maybe they were right after all, they get the guilt-free escape they crave and another person (perhaps *the* one most important person) to validate their decision.

But don't do it. Understand their feelings, accept your failures, do the work. But don't agree that throwing away the marriage is an acceptable (let alone good) option or that using divorce as the easy way out builds a better character now or better relationships in the future.

Just get your H to go, even if he's only doing it for your benefit. Who knows what you might find out and who knows what he might discover when he's not looking.

OK, time to wrap this up. I'm pleased to hear of your friend's reconciliation. I'm sure you're happy for her in your head...but finding it harder not to be a bit jealous in your heart. I know the feeling. There are friends and acquaintences all around me who are getting ready to marry next spring/summer. They are full of the promise of a life filled with love and a future filled with hope. It only seems to bring my own loss into stark relief.

[OldFool]

Hey alamogirl:

Hope you're doing OK.