EA, being "friends" with OW, and Boundaries

[onceuponatime]

Nikki, I'm so glad you got the MC appointment, and found one who will have solution based therapy. Im sorry that your H is still hung up on OW. I know you are looking for good things, but please don't be too gullible. I was. There is a reason for the saying 'love is blind'. I was, so were many others. Your H shouldn't be spending time with OW, period, but, especially, knowing how it upsets you. He is choosing to go be with her, when he knows it upsets you. He is justifying behaviour that is inappropriate for a husband. You are absolutely normal to be bothered by his insistence on spending time out of work with her. You can try to work with him, but, do not, believe that you are wrong. You are not. You are being very generous in your even considering giving her leftovers!! I'd leave it out for a few days before giving it to her. Im still looking for the OW article, because it is sooo your H OW and my H OW!

Once

[NikB]

Hi Once,

Thanks for the note! I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm hoping for the best but trying hard to mentally prepare myself for the worst. I don't know how successful I've been so far but I'm feeling stronger every day. I must be looking more confident these days - tonight I treated myself to a Friday Starbucks, and when I got up to the drive through to pay, I found out the guy in front of me had already bought it for me!! That has NEVER happened to me. He left through a different exit than I did but I saw him later in traffic and thanked him, and he flashed me that "hey baby" look that I haven't seen since I was in college! Nothing else, didn't even ask for a number, he just waved and drove off - but man what an ego boost.

Anyway.... as far as H goes... I'm in a weird spot because by the time I knew anything was wrong, I think H was halfway out the door. As much as I want to insist that he quit spending so much time with OW, part of me realizes I'm lucky to have this chance to DB and go to MC at all. Thank you for confidence that I'm not wrong and it's inappropriate though. I feel it in my gut, but it helps to hear it from someone else too. If I find out something physical IS going on things will be changing a whole lot... the EA will be hard to recover from but I do see my role in leading up to it. If he's lying to me about it going any further that's a whole nother massive layer of trust gone though.

The leftovers were a joke from Stilltryin - for all I care, OW can eat her cereal on Thanksgivng!! I had a dream last night that she showed up uninvited and I totally flipped out. Here's hoping it was ONLY a dream.

Today I couldn't help myself - H mentioned again that she "had nowhere to go." I sympathized and said that was too bad, but he kept talking about it in spite of my efforts to change the subject. I finally said "What about S's" (her H). Apparently, he already said no. So I said "Oh, well what about her boyfriend M?" - H said sheepishly "Well, his wife probably wouldn't like that." "Hm...well what about her roommate, G? They act like they're a couple anyway" - H again sheepishly says "I guess his girlfriend said no."

I finished with "Well, that really sucks for her" but in my mind I'm thinking...HEY honey, noticing a TREND here???? Sheesh.

[onceuponatime]

Nikki,
Great job. You stick to your guns! He should be ashamed of himself for continuing to push. It's pathetic, isn't it? I bet your old H would never have lowered himself to do that... he's almost begging on her behalf.

And congrats on the free coffee!! Sometimes something like that goes a long way for us to remember that we are worthy, doesn't it??

Today was my H B-day. He leaves on a vacation with OW tomorrow. (the one she mentioned in that cell call where she knew I could hear)... I managed to keep postitive this week, thinking maybe she just made it up. That is until I looked at his work calendar today, and saw that he'd scheduled all next week as vacation. I lost it when I saw that. Lots of tears, cookies and junk food later, I'm finally under control again. I swear, he's gone on more vacations with her in this past 2 years, than we went on for the 16 years before this all started. Well, on the bright side...it's to the beach again. More wrinkles for her already wrinkled face and body!! Maybe she'll gain a few more pounds too!! Me bitter towards OW?? Hell yeah! I say we're allowed that small token.

Have a good weekend. Stay strong.

Once

[inspiredjulie]

Woo Hoo... I can top your Starbucks experience. I was flirted w/ today by a kindergartener.

Seriously... that's fabulous. Ride that wave. Julie

[NikB]

Thanks Once! That's for sure about my old H not doing something like this. It's so sad.

So sorry about your H BD and OW vacation. That must be really awful, especially how she rubbed it in your face. I am glad you're back under control but it makes me so sad that any of us are having our worlds turned upside down like this.

This weekend is really, really not going well for me either ...<sigh>. Friday we were supposed to go out and H was really down (I notice this happening lately anytime we're supposed to go out just the two of us - insteaad we end up with H super depressed and a big R discussion that he initiates). We ended up having the same conversation about how he regretted marrying me, did it because it was the "right thing" but doesn't feel like we have any passion together, etc. I just validated and nodded, but it was so incredibly depressing. He seems to feel like since we never had a good R to begin with, there's no hope for having one now. I don't know what to think or do about any of it. Yeah GAL and PMA, but just dealing with the day to day is tearing me up. And what's completely weird is, he acts like he's telling me this stuff for the first time. We've had parts of this conversation at least 10 times now and the worst parts of it 3 times now... how can he not even REMEMBER???

I told him the counselor wanted us to think about goals or issues to discuss in our first session and he said "I can't, I don't want to hurt you." He is SO stuck in the past and just doesn't see the potential for change at all. He seems to think we NEVER had a good R, and I am just stunned by it. Is it MLC? Was it really all a mistake? I have no idea.

For goals I asked him to visualize his ideal marriage - not what he doesn't like or regrets, but what it would be in a perfect world. I figured from there we can work on whether that's possible together or not, but it's like he can't think of anything positive at all right now. He can act like he's fine for days on end, then just loses it again. I hope he goes to the counselor - I can feel him trying to back out of it, but I do think he'll show up for 1 session at least. I think I'm hoping the counselor will make him see the potential for the future, and he's hoping she'll make me see it's over. Who knows.

I finally dragged him out to dinner Friday so we could just STOP thinking for awhile. On the way home he suggested we rent a movie, then when we got home he made us this romantic fire and we ended up snuggling all night on the couch, talking about 'light' things, and not even watching the movie.

Saturday morning...bam...switch has flipped and he'll barely talk to me. We were supposed to spend the day together watching a friend race and I almost didn't go because H was so grouchy. He got upset and convinced me he really wanted me there, so I went, and then he basically ignored me all day except to tell me that after his parents split up they still went to family functions together for 3 years. huh. He's telling me this why?

Saturday night I didn't express any of it to him but my mind just kept racing about all the great things we've done together, life we've built, and how I just can't imagine it being GONE. The house that we remodeled together... the dog we've "raised" who's getting old now... hell just watching the squirrels in the backyard running around on the patio furniture we picked out together is making me want to lose it. I had what I think was probably a panic attack in the shower - couldn't stop shaking violently and got really dizzy. I just told him I was really chilled and he wrapped me up in warm blankets and held me. After I stopped shaking he asked if it was OK to keep holding me til we fell asleep (I said yes of course). I know I have to get this stuff under control but how do you stop strong physical reactions like that??? I can stop the crying, the snapping, the anger, but I can't figure out the throwing up or the shaking.

Today (Sunday) he's racing while I stay home and work on chores, but he's called me a few times to say hi and that he's having fun. Meanwhile, I'm trying to plan Thanksgiving with his family and wonder if I can even hold it together for the day.

I'm so tired... I am averaging 3-4 hours sleep and can't hold down more than a few bites of food. I know I need to get my health under control - the mental battle is just too hard with a sleep and nutrient deprived brain. Now if I can just get my stomach to cooperate in keeping food down.

Sorry, I am rambling and feeling sorry for myself right now. I finally got the nerve earlier to tell my mom (on her answering machine) why I've been so distant lately. I'm just waiting for her to get the message and freak out completely...<sigh>.

I feel like I'm going to have to make a decision about moving too. The truth is, I love our house and life we've built and I know H does too. If he's going to push this, I kind of want to stay here and let him have his "space," keep the road paved so to speak, and hope he chooses to come home. I feel like if he's the one giving up on us, he should be the one to have to leave and do all the work.

But realistically - I can't take care of the house - I just physically can't do it (I nearly killed myself trying to mow the lawn a month ago and never even got the mower started). I haven't run the numbers to figure out if I could afford it - there's a chance I could, but I couldn't also afford paying someone to take care of things like the lawn. I really want one of us to be able to keep it though after all the work we've put in (and... since we don't have kids and planned to stay here forever, the house would be very hard to sell - it's fairly large and in a "kid friendly" neighborhood but it's designed for 2 people who like to entertain, not a family with kids). I'm not ready to give up yet, either, and I think me moving would make it a little too 'easy' for him.

I guess for now I just wait it out - wait for our appt. Thursday and hope for the best while keeping on with preparing for the worst.

Thanks for letting me ramble... I'm going to go find SOMETHING positive to do and get my mind off all this.

[NikB]

I nearly forgot.. I have a DB specific question. One of the comments H made the other night was "You don't honestly feel like you're still in love with me, do you? Aren't you just scared of being alone?"

At the time I responded that I didn't know, but the more I thought about it these last few days, the answer is YES - I love him very dearly. I wish we were happier right now and not going through this, but I love him. I'm afraid of being alone, sure, but I'm a lot more afraid of losing a truly amazing man that I DO in fact love. Do I tell him?

I want to tell him I thought more about his question and the answer I've found in my heart, but I don't want to pressure him. What do you think?

[Holly06]

Say something ambigous, like, "You could be right". He will believe what he wants to believe, and you agreeing with him will eventually work for you. Let him wonder. One of the points men worry about in depression, is Am I being loved enough? Believe it or not he wants you to love him. He was fishing.
Let the answer without any information work for you.
"You could be right".
Holly

[onceuponatime]

Nikki,
I'm so sorry you're having a bad day too. It sure sounds like he's waffling, like they do in MLC. Although, for me, I have the same questions about if H is or isn't in MLC... Everyone told me if it looks like a duck, and squawks like a duck... it's a duck. But, how do we really know. I guess, the more they do that is 'typical for MLC-er', the better the chance it's exactly what's changed them. At least that is what I keep telling myself. Your H sounds like he is in some from of personal crisis. He forgets he's said stuff before, he's living in the past, saying you never had a good relationship. All things others have said are MLC stuff. If it turns into anger, you will be positive he's there. Anger at you. And, I don't mean just mad, at something you did. Anger with a capital A. Even if you never say one word. It's like they are haboring this anger, and every so often, it slips out, and you are left wonder, where did that come from, and what the heck did I just do to earn it. Nothing you change works.

I know how you feel, it's like your life is sliding into the ocean, on a slippery slope, and we are helpless to stop it. It sounds like he's inching up to a real crisis. He's trying to hold on, but loosing his grip. I guess I choose to believe it's MLC, (most of the time), because it is the only senario that allows me to have some hope that H will come back. I'm not sure if it's weakness or strength... It's a crutch I try to hold onto, because it is unbearable when I think otherwise. I have not found any other reason, that is bearable, or that give me hope.

I hope he works his way out of it. You are doing all you can to make the path easier for him. But, it may not work soon. It seems that it doesn't, if they are in a crisis. At least you know now, how not to antagonize him and make it worse on yourself.

I had trouble eating too. At the time he left, I lost a bunch of weight. Food made me sick too. I couldn't eat. I went on medication for a while. It didn't fix the problem, just made me not cry all the time. I found it also kept me from being able to have even a moment of joy, so I stopped. I still have the trouble with food, but in a different way. I do eat now. Just not what I should. I put the weight back on. I used to be a really great cook. It was my thing, it was what I did for us. Now, I barely want to take the effort to make a cup of tea. I go buy the food, and it goes bad in the frig. Try to make something you can grab quickly.. I just boiled eggs, for egg salad. It's easy to make, easy to have in the frig, no effort to eat. And, it's gentle enough to stay down. Just a suggestion... if you hate eggs, I wouldn't suggest it!! :-) You could also try those new 'steam' frozen vegies. You just microwave them for 5 min, and eat. (well I slather with butter, then eat). I know, it's not well balanced, but, it's better for you than cookies. When I finally got so I could eat, I took myself out all the time, just to be around people. I've stopped doing that, because it cost so much, so now I don't eat as well. Frozen vegies and egg salad is the best I can do right now. (it's what's for dinner tonight).

I know it isn't as positive as you'd like to hear, to think your H is in MLC. But, could be the reason, and sometimes that's enough to help us hang on another day. You sound like you do still really love him. Others have said, if he were delerious with a fever, you'd help him. So, that's what we do... we keep trying to do what we can to help them, even if they don't want it.

I'm sorry I'm bouncing around, but it's such a small box to type in, and I keep looking back at your note so I might say something relevant that might help. One thing I want to say, for all the time this has been going on, when I try to picture what I want to improve, it is still very difficult to think of anything other than 'I want H to come back'. After several years of this, it is so hard to think of what was good or bad about our marriage. All I can ever think of, is I want him back. Your H is probably thinking all he wants, is to get out. He can't think about what was good or bad. his brain is stuck. You might be doing the same thing. The things I tried to change, were all to get him back. I still have a hard time truely thinking for myself. I am still trying to pick paint for 2 rooms in the house, and all I can think of, is what H would want...what would he like if he walked in the house, and saw it. It happened agian this week, with a couple rugs I'm thinking about buying. We get a one track mind. So, I can totally understand how they can too. I think they just want relief, from whatever it is they are feeling...but, they can't find their way out. Just like we can't. Our life is consumed by wanting them back. Nothing anyone can say, (except for H to say 'hey, I'm back') will do it for us. But, that doesn't happen. And, we can't say what they need to hear either. I think, in their mind, the only solution (they think), is OW. I don't think we can fix it... any more than they can make it all ok again for us. They are just not capable. And, I don't think we are capable of making it 'ok' for them either.

So, just keep coming here, and seeing that you are not alone. We learn to be better people here,so that when they do come out of it, they'll notice. While I was just writing this, I was thinking.. maybe one day, their all consuming thought will be making this all up to us. Imagine harnassing all this negative energy for something good, like us??

Take care Nikki. Have a cup of tea. chocolate helps too!
Once

[onceuponatime]

Holly, Nikki,

Isn't it funny, that they ask us that? Of course we don't want to be alone... and neither do they. They move to OW before they leave us! obviously, they are afraid of being alone!! can you say projecting? that is certainly MLC. I agree with Holly's respone, that's a great response. My goal, (while I am very afraid of being alone), is not to tell H, but, to show him that I can do things on my own. I do tell him I miss him, but, not that I'm scared. So, while it scares the hell out of me, I can muddle through. At the same time, I do appreciate what he does to make my life even a little easier, while I try to get better at muddling. Give them credit, where credit is due. .. even if they help us subconsciously, if it's good, thank them, and apprecaite it.

Once

[onceuponatime]

Nikki, please pop over to my thread. Holly posted a very good post about OW, and I found the one I was looking for for you too. I think you will find both of them interesting.
Once