I think you are mixing up the intellectual with the emotional element. I have no fear of abandonment at the intellectual level. I have lived single, I can live single again, though I prefer not to. Live will go on and I could possibly be even happier than I am now. There will be consequences concerning the kids that I may not like, only seeing them part time, every other year not having them for Christmas, etc. I know that once in that situation, I can just adapt.
But that is not the issue. I still FEEL anxiety when I think of this or other related issues. It is the conditioned reaction I have from years of growing up in a dysfunctional family. Do you have anxiety over the thought of getting a shot? There is a little pain, but really it is not so bad (unless it’s a gamma globulin shot or something huge like that). For some people, the thought of getting a shot is much worse than the reality. It is a conditioned response, usually from a past experience. It can be overcome, but it takes some training.
Reacting to our marriage issues is the same thing. I believe it is rooted in fear of some sort. That fear does not need to be valid, especially as an adult. But the reaction is automatic and continually pushing that hot button does not help.
Waves...me too! I came to realize a couple things. Things HAD to change. I got soooooo angry that if I pushed him out, I didn't care. H had used som gheto slang that I found totally disrespectful. He has taken fun, sex, intimacy, and now he was working on the very last communication we had. What little we spoke, he was now "forcing/driving (somesuch word)to totally shut up. That last desperate stand, seems, to either have lifted the last submissive burden from me, or awakened him. Whatever the catalyst, it seems to be working at the moment. Interesting that I found this series at the same time as I found your post. Hope it helps all of us. Inspirational Thread
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
And awesome to hear from people in other quadrants. I'm in the secure quadrant Once i finished the est I was thinking about how someone in the secure quadrant would never see a separation coming. Like I didn't. They're so secure in their love, they never doubt the other person's love and then... WHAMO!!! In our case, changes would have to be made in how we realize that the insecure person needs more reassurance than we do. Again, not manipulation, but if I wanted to save the marriage, I would want make those changes to myself because I love my S, to make my S feel less insecure.
Or do you think that's even possible?
If these are FOO issues, they wont change, right? I'll always be secure. Even feeling betrayed right now, I know I'll be completely secure of love in my next R. I'm just wired that way. And an insecure/anxious person will always feel anxious and doubt my love? Wow.
May it be eternal while it lasts.
My sitch
Me: 36
H:34
M: 5 years
Bomb: 03/14/06
I meant to respond to your post but got caught up in the other questions.
"Walking on eggshells"...rings a bell. "super-sensitive", too.
Are you referring to yourself or your wife?
She complains that I don't communicate, don't let her in, etc, etc. typical guy, right? well, when I have "communicated", the result is her flying off the handle in response. and they wonder why we don't "communicate".
To me, I sense a dismissive theme in these comments. My guess is that if she says you don’t communicate, then you don’t, at least not in a language she can hear. That may be because she needs to be validated to support some false image she has of herself and she doesn’t want to hear anything less. As wrong as that may be, if you stop any communication, how will you ever help her to see her issues that are then impacting you? The communication needs to flow first, then it can tweaked into more appropriate language.
It said I was "dismissive". whatever that means...
Dismissive seems pretty appropriate to me.
Dr. Laura...hard to take seriously by anyone born after 1960; particularly, anyone female. There may be bits of truth to gleen from it, but the messenger makes it awfully hard to swallow.
I don’t understand this comment. What is special about 1960 as a cut-off point for accept Dr. Laura or not. Are you referring to your wife or you too? I can understand that Dr. Laura sounds threatening to women, but I don’t know why men would find her distasteful.
I’m having some questions as this type of learning is foreign to me. Can you vacillate between two, depending on circumstances much like weather influencing your behavior or outlook? Cloudy day=Anxious-Preoccupied Attachment; Pleasant day=Secure Attachment to the Intimate people...the Dismissive-Avoidant Attachment or Fearful-Avoidant Attachment to "the world" at large depending on 'vibes' [image]http://www.answers.com/topic/four-category-model-tested-png[/image]
Last edited by LostGal; 10/11/0606:06 PM.
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
I had some other thoughts I wanted to mention, but this dang job just gets in the way… If the test is anywhere correct in identifying your attachment style as dismissive, then you should be an emotional avoider. The way I see it, this means your wife MUST be the pursuer. I may be wrong, but I don’t see how two avoiders could ever get together. As soon as a major intimacy issue arises, I would think two avoiders would rather walk away than face the issues. So they would never get past the dating phase. That’s why I think your wife may be the pursuer.
You say she has outbursts when you try to communicate. Maybe she is wanting to hear something from you in her language, but doesn’t hear it, so she gets angry. The question is what does she want/need to hear from you and is this why she gets mad? I get the impression you do not really know the answer either. Have you talked to her about this?
Also, since I assume she is the one pursuing you, Dr. Laura would not work for you. I suspect your wife already feels like she tries too hard and asking her to accommodate you even more will not go over well. Does she comment about this?
Lostgirl,
I don’t know that I can answer your question, but I do think the attachment style varies with relationship. I could find someone to whom I may feel securely attached because of the different mix between us. If she had a natural inclination to be supportive in the way I want, I may take the test and never have any thoughts that would hint of anxiety, KWIM? I’ve got nothing to back this up other than my own past experience.
I do think my marriage can become more secure for both my wife and I. We need to become secure enough in ourselves to then give more support to the other without feeling that we are giving up power or control, or getting resentful over it. But I think it can be done. Knowing that she is capable of giving that support (and her knowing that I can give her support) removes a major hurdle for us. I think she has long held the assumption that I am not capable of compassion. I think she is now seeing glints that I can give her what she wants, if I choose to. She has to figure out what she needs to do on her end to bring this out in me (and vice versa).
as luck would have it, by the time I found the link to take an attachment test, I seem to be quite where I intuitively thought I'd end up...
Quote: Thank you for completing the Close Relationships Questionnaire/Experiences in Close Relationships-Revised Questionnaire. This questionnaire is designed to measure your attachment style--the way you relate to others in the context of intimate relationships. As you might suspect, people differ greatly in the ways in which they approach close relationships. For example, some people are comfortable opening up to others emotionally, whereas others are reluctant to allow themselves to depend on others.
According to attachment theory and research, there are two fundamental ways in which people differ from one another in the way they think about relationships. First, some people are more anxious than others. People who are high in attachment-related anxiety tend to worry about whether their partners really love them and often fear rejection. People low on this dimension are much less worried about such matters. Second, some people are more avoidant that others. People who are high in attachment-related avoidance are less comfortable depending on others and opening up to others.
According to your questionnaire responses, your attachment-related anxiety score is 4.22, on a scale ranging from 1 (low anxiety) to 7 (high anxiety). Your attachment-related avoidance score is 2.56, on a scale ranging from 1 (low avoidance) to 7 (high avoidance).
We have plotted your two scores in the two-dimensional space defined by attachment-related anxiety and avoidance. Your approximate position in this space is denoted by the blue dot. (Note: If you left any of the questions unanswered, then these scores will be inaccurate.)
(The dot fell in the Noon to 1:30 area, close to the 0,0 all things considered)
As you can see in this graph, the two dimensions of anxiety and avoidance can be combined to create interesting combinations of attachment styles. For example people who are low in both attachment-related anxiety and avoidance are generally considered secure because they don't typically worry about whether their partner's are going to reject them and they are comfortable being emotionally close to others. Combining your anxiety and avoidance scores, you fall into the preoccupied quadrant. Previous research on attachment styles indicates that preoccupied people tend to have highly conflictual relationships. Although they are comfortable expressing their emotions, preoccupied individuals often experience a lot of negative emotions, which can often interfere with their relationships.
CONFLICTED
I found myself answering "I WANT to express myself thusly"
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
My W expressing her different POV does not bother me as much as when she completely shuts down my POV and says she will do something her own way. I see what you mean, this would make me mad too and I can see that if I did that it would make my H mad.
You asked me how I don't know if I am hurting him. Because he invents new ways to be hurt by me. When we first got together I would say things that I never had any idea would hurt him, he would act hurt and we would talk it through, he would explain why he felt hurt. I would be contrite and try not to do that. Next he would find a new way that I was hurting him and the cycle would rerun. This has continued throughout our marriage and I truly walk and eggshells to avoid hurting him. When he gets mad it is because he feels I am not carefully walking around his newly laid out eggshells which surely I should be able to plainly see. A simple example: He gets mad because I don't thank him I learn to start saying thank-you more often He gets mad because I don't say it sincerely enough I learn to look inside and find the grateful part of me and say thank-you sincerely He gets mad because when I say thank-you it makes him feel guilty for not saying thank-you to me often enough etc, etc, etc
your fast approaching decision to leave the marriage is no less a form of manipulation.
It is not a decision it is a feeling. It is a change in my feeling response to the idea of the marriage ending. Whereas before I was manipulative because my fear of the marriage ending would make me change my response to him to something less likely to hasten the end, now I respond to him in a more direct and true way because I don't fear the consequences. This has better results - the truer form of communication although possibly hurtful to him is clearer and leaves him less room to be picky about my manner of speaking or whatever. I don't feel like I am tying myself up in defensive knots trying to save this R, I just say what I say. His behaviour has been improving - which was not the result I expected.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
