You certainly know how to stop a girl cold in her tracks with that kind of question.
I've been thinking a lot about this. One of the last bits of advice my attrny gave to me was, "Corri, don't make any major decisions for a year. Get your head together, and heal as much as you can. Level out, and then see what you see."
I think that was real solid advice. I can tell you I am feeling much different about myself than I did a year ago, much different than I felt 6 mos. ago, even different than I felt three months ago. As time has gone by, I can see the amazing wisdom of that advice, so I AM taking it to heart. I'm giving myself a year to level out as much as I can, to heal as much as possible.
But to get to your question... I think what I am in the process of doing is defining my personal mission statement... trying to determine my direction and purpose in life. For the most part, I am happy, and I think I am becausse I have come to realize that happiness is a direct result of my own efforts and mental attitude. I have worked very, very hard at keeping the negative thoughts at bay. I went through a period of depression this summer.... uck!! I HATE that. Had to pull myself out of it, and I am bound and determined not to go back there.
I don't know how far I've gotten in my Personal Life Plan, but at least I have a plan to make a plan.
My kids are doing amazingly well. Their father and I live about 1/2 mile away from one another, and they get to see us both a great deal. But like I've always said, how we view childrearing was NEVER our problem. There are some things that crop up here and there, but for the most part... it's consistent from house to house.
How about you? How's your daughter? How are you doing? Seeing anyone?
Yes, I saw it posted many days ago you were turning(?) 40, what ever turning means. I was trying to mind my own "P & Q" but found I can't stay away from the forum.
Nice to see you have the insights to what is going on in your mind and R. Thanks for posting those things as sometimes I know things go on in our R but don't know how to describe it.
Underdog, HI. Good to see your posts. With as much a insight, smarts, and all of the other good qualities you have. I wonder why your situation turned out the way it did, but I know it takes two to make a M work. Sometimes I wonder if I am a little like Mr. W. I do know I try to make things work.
I was really intrigued by your posts at many times and read them weekly ( big job due to the numerous posts and replies). Lots of good stuff for anyone interested in reading underdog's post.
HP, nice to see you again and yes, your H's connection to his religion or the distance he felt for you and the M, I can imagine that. Not because you or he or the R wasn't something it should have been, but because some people avoid the real problems. (That is, the real problem according to him/me/anyone. It is related to the problem of trying to maintain the peace within the R.
In true Mr. H fashion, he says "Wow I wish I would have known this years ago.." Maybe my reason for this same thought is different, but there are tons of things I wish I would have know about that I am learning now that would have been helpful and maybe avoided many problems.
All my life I've been brought up to think that men should be falling at my feet, spilling out their desire and unending love, without me having to reciprocate in any way. Well that attitude gets reinforced everyday through the stories like "Snow White" and all of that other white horse myth.
Of course, there is also the suffering "Stand By Your Man" and more recently Hoe's and B's in rap music which I hate to hear. It's good most people don't choose either extreme.
Take care all and I'll stop in when I have another realization or whenever Betsey and Blackie shine their danged flashlights under the rock I've been hiding.
Hay, that is a good one. I will say me too to that one.
Cori Sorry about stopping you in the tracks sometimes folks get in analysis paralysis but a long reflection after such large issues appears to be a wise decision on your part.
I like the no big decisions for a year.
As I get older I narrow down on my strengths and not worry about the loss side of the ledger. Would I be correct to say you are doing the same?
My D12 and I see eachother often. Usually I look for things to do like the Climbing gym, racketball (somewhat), and other items. A customer shoes horses in an Area I travel through who told me of a good stable where the kids do not just ride a plodding mare so since she loves horses I hope to arrange a stop there for her.
Will watch Father while Mother visits sister and Aunt on the West Coast in Dec. She has earned it! Logistics will need to be worked out.
As for seeing someone frankly all the extra time and energy is for D12 and Mother. If I was 40 I'd be taking a different approach but outside of the FD I live a quiet noneventful life. Got my sea Kayak out and will be checking out the coast and inlets now my sholder is healing. Probably do a little diving but that is an expensive sport.
Yeah I know the blues too. The Blues is why God made BB King and National Public Radio.
Glad you are doing well.
"All I want is a weeks pay for a day's work" Steve Martin
Honey--Well, looks like we both hijacked the Blackie/Corri thread, and they don't seem to mind... but what you wrote was a shocker!
Quote: It's hard for me to give. I can do and do. Cook, crack jokes, ML, play horseshoes, yougetthepicture. But it is nearly impossible for me to give the good stuff, the stuff that is hidden inside.
Can I just leave it at that for a while?
I suppose, but this is a better place when you're not leaving stuff alone. I happen to get a lot out of what you've shared. I'm pretty sure that I'd be reading all your posts with a fine tooth comb had Mr. Wonderful and I reconciled our M. You've got way too much good not to share.
Lou--I definitely think you try hard, and the fact that you've been here sharing and caring speaks volumes. I suspect that you and Mr. W. aren't too different, and if he were half the man you are, he'd be here asking for help. I've always appreciated your kind demeanor.
As far as flashlights go, I doubt that Blackie and I are the only ones shining them under rocks. If memory serves me correctly, he and I have both had our fair share of hiding too. When my thread locks up, I may crawl under a rock for awhile too... unless you guys discuss a subject that I really need to address.
Honey, I suspect that there's been times a spouse has desired to leave--even in the happiest of marriages. My parents (though they bicker--it seems to be some sort of mating ritual between them) are happy. Yet I can remember my dad going through a MLC and my mother telling him that she was taking us and moving us to MN. She meant every word of it, and we all knew it.
For the longest time, it was me who dangled that threat in front of Mr. W. When he told ME he was moving out, I was stunned. My sister asked me then if I was just mad that he did it before I could? It's been almost 4 years since the bomb was dropped and I still wonder if there's a bit of truth in my answer to her question? Fact is, it takes crises to work on things.
I can't imagine finding a notebook, but the fact that it gave you pause to wonder what you were putting out back at him leads me to believe that your paradigm shift was real and life altering.
I don't think I could ever enter a R with a man without approaching things differently? I mean, I've learned so much about myself, others and life in these last 4 years that I'm not the same person. I'm really happy that you and your H have been able to solve things in the context of your M. It truly is evidence of God's grace.
One more thing, and I do hope that you start a thread on this subject--maybe it will shine some light on a topic I've long felt should be addressed in this forum:
Quote: Now I see that his libido didn't waver, he just suppressed it with an *enormous* amount of willpower. Amazing.
Every time I read CeMar's laundry list of complaints about his W, I think that he's doing himself, her and their M a grave disservice by continuing to make his laments about her. I'd bet that the majority of people who post in this forum who complain about a LD spouse could learn from your enlightenment, Honey.
I have a very HD myself. Blackie himself has discussed his side of this coin as well. No libido could make me want to have sex with someone who resented me or felt that I was "less than". There were many times when I'd have sex with Mr. W. because we had both gone too long without any physical affection. But it would pain me when we weren't getting along and I couldn't feel that connection between us. I always felt that there was more to life than having sex with a guy who seemed to hate me much of the time.
I'm not saying your H felt that way about you. But I swear that your realization is definitely worth addressing here. Now that I'm flying solo at the moment, I'm finding myself rather LD too. I think that's nature's way of taking care of an availability problem. And you know something? I've discovered that there is plenty else to do now that it's not a concern right now. When someone comes along to change things, I'm sure my libido will kick back in, full gear. Until then, I'm just content to go about my business and see where life takes me.
I might have to join in Blackie's political reform plans if all else fails.
TTFN, and Corri, sorry for the major league hijack!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Hey Bets, Well, first I should clarify that the notebook I found wasn't some skinny spiral bound jobber, it was a 4 inch thick binder. Mostly things he printed out for re-reading some time, lots of personal comments made in the margins (yes I read em, sue me) as well as some letters he wrote to me but couldn't give to me, for fear of my reaction. It was SO hard to read all of it. To know what was going through his mind and, gulp, to know how thin the thread had stretched that held us together. (translation: it freaked me out to realize that I was romantically unloved--how dare he!!--during that time)
Sooooooo, back to me. Well, my defensive reaction to that is this: MrH does *not* make it easy for me to open up. In fact, it makes him so uncomfortable that he immediately shuts the convo down. "Uhhhh, honeypot......you know, I'm going to go run a bath for you." End of discussion. This can be about depression over my dad's death, or my insecurities about my mothering skills, you name it. Anything that hints of intimacy makes him uncomfortable.
However, this doesn't get me off the hook does it. There is one time that he positively clamors for my intimate conversation...during spiritual discussions. Where am I during those? Out to friggin lunch. I can't go there with him. WHY I don't know. I mean, I guess I do know but have been lazy/fearful about confronting it so far. I can and do have spiritual discussions with my girlfriends and do to a certain point with H but do not relish it, encourage it, or 'let him in'. It feels raw to be talking about that with him and I wonder if he senses it. Probably not, as he is not the most emotionally clued in person I know, lol.
About the other issue--his missing libido--all I can say is that it showed up about the exact time that I stopped demanding to see it. Coincidence? I don't think so. He told me that he needed me to do this but I couldn't seem to get the hang of it. Time, time, time was what I needed. Most likely, he needed time too, to reconcile his raging hormones with his raging spirituality.
One of the biggest factors in him finding his libido seems to be MY learning how to be more feminine (funny, cause I know you are experiencing many of the same things on your thread these days) which allows him to act da man. He sooooooooo wants to be passive and I have a naturally dominant personality so it seemed like a perfect fit until a few years went by and it became evident that this dynamic doesn't work in the long run. He is slowly learning how to be a more dominant romantic partner and I have definitely learned how to act more like a girl. I still don't watch desperate housewives, etc, (I laughed at that part on your thread) but I now play up those parts of me that are there and I never highlighted before. For instance, I talk softer and with less sarcasm, I have curbed my tendency to interrupt, I validate people, I don't argue for the sake of argument, I praise the crud outta him, you know the drill. I don't know why it never occurred to me to do these things before except for what I wrote earlier--I just thought that it was my birthright to have a man drooling over me and I didn't have to do nuthin. Incidentally, cemar, in my case it had little to do with Snow White and more to do with a feminist upbringing.
Oh, Honey, I'll just extend a big girl hug over the internet. I can only imagine how I would have reacted if I would have found something so intimate as your H's journal. It might have really made a difference in our M.
Quote: Well, my defensive reaction to that is this: MrH does *not* make it easy for me to open up. In fact, it makes him so uncomfortable that he immediately shuts the convo down. "Uhhhh, honeypot......you know, I'm going to go run a bath for you." End of discussion. This can be about depression over my dad's death, or my insecurities about my mothering skills, you name it. Anything that hints of intimacy makes him uncomfortable.
I suspected that we married brothers, but this clinched things. It's really hard to open up to someone when you get swatted down because of their discomfort with the subject matter. Ugh. And you're right--it doesn't get either one of us off the hook. I think if I had the chance to get a do-over, I'd be pointing out to Mr. W. exactly what I needed from him once he started shutting me down.
Did I ever tell you about the day we got a Dx on D9? OMG, Honey, next to the day when he moved out, it was the WORST day of my life. I knew that there was something wrong with her, and for the most part, I was very accepting of that notion. But hearing the words out loud marked the very end of my hope that she would grow up to be normal. I was a friggin' basket case--crying from hopeless despair to the point where I was nauseated. (I think I fainted in the shower the following morning. ) As I lay on our master bath floor (it was carpeted), naked and wet and sobbing, Mr. W. looked at me with what I thought was contempt back then. (I see now that he just had NO skills to deal with this sort of raw emotion.) He didn't comfort me or offer me his husbandly support. Instead, I got a sneer with a very harsh criticism as he said, "Bets. Get off the ground. I have no idea why you're behaving this way, but nothing you can do or say can change things. So it would be good if you would just accept things the way they are and deal with it. It is what it is. Get over it."
Honey, until a couple years ago, I wouldn't forgive him for being so horrid and awful to me. Please know that I have the same fear of opening up--to me, the ultimate rejection falls somewhere along the line of what you and I have experienced. As my surrogate mom told her H of 49 years when they split up 20 years ago, "Why should I stay married to you and have sex with you when I have to go out of my M to get intimacy?"
I'm glad my stuff is resonating with you. That's why I keep posting--I figure it might help someone out there to verbalize what I'm thinking or feeling.
I promised myself that I would never, ever recommend a book I had to read during MC on the subject of masculine/feminine roles. I still hate the author, but enough time has passed for me to tell you guys about the book that devastated me and rocked my world. I think she's full of sh!t most of the time, but the overall message I got out of her turned out to be the biggest light bulb moment I've had since, well, 1980 (when I left for college and found out that my mom's caution of separating darks and whites was valid ). Her name is Laura Doyle and the book is called The Surrendered Wife. (I hate the fact that I'm giving her help here, so please.... nobody..... don't buy this book! If you must, check it out of the library so this woman doesn't make another cent off any of us.) I cried from despair as I read between the lines what a horrid and unfeminine wife I had become.
For the record, I don't think I'm going to be giving up my masculine pursuits. My fantasy football team kicked a$$ this weekend, and my score shattered the league records (and this score was achieved with one person missing in my lineup). Because of that score, I now lead the league in points, though I'm not in first place overall (first in my division, though). My colleague wants me to trade wide receivers. I've told him no way, that someone has to give him some competition and that person is just gonna have to be me. I probably should have been born a boy, but genetics dealt me a different hand.
When I get the chance at having a loving, intimate R again, I plan on putting all this knowledge to good use. And I thank you thousandfold for reminding me that there is balance in nature, and I don't have to feel entitled to get it.
I appreciate your help--more than you'll ever know.
Hugs,
The not-so-desperate house ex-wife
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Quote: Sooooooo, back to me. Well, my defensive reaction to that is this: MrH does *not* make it easy for me to open up. In fact, it makes him so uncomfortable that he immediately shuts the convo down. "Uhhhh, honeypot......you know, I'm going to go run a bath for you." End of discussion. This can be about depression over my dad's death, or my insecurities about my mothering skills, you name it. Anything that hints of intimacy makes him uncomfortable.
However, this doesn't get me off the hook does it. There is one time that he positively clamors for my intimate conversation...during spiritual discussions. Where am I during those? Out to friggin lunch. I can't go there with him. WHY I don't know.
In regards to mourning:
My suggestion is to tie the two together. Sadness over your dad's death? Track down various scriptures and biblical stories that deal with just this thing. Jesus mourning over the death of Lazarus, listening to Martha and Mary's lamentations.
Discuss the Beatitude that states: ""Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted." Ask him what his understanding is of that verse and how it can be expressed amongst believers.
Insecurity regarding your calling as a mom:
Moses had and expressed his doubts to do what God was calling him to do. "I can't lead! I can't speak!" Or Jonah who received the call and promptly started running away as quickly as he could. Eli rearing Samuel to hear and respond to God's calling. Perhaps research the verses that address whether or not God provides and sustains that for which you have been called.
See what I mean? Take the topics you want and need to talk about, ask him to help you find scriptures that apply and that can give you guidance and support and/or share those you have located yourself. Philosophizing about Scripture can be interesting. However, question that takes more than a pat answer is "how to I practically live my faith on a daily basis". Moves it out of the theoretical and right into the nitty gritty of your own life.
Quote: It was SO hard to read all of it. To know what was going through his mind and, gulp, to know how thin the thread had stretched that held us together. (translation: it freaked me out to realize that I was romantically unloved--how dare he!!--during that time)
Ah, Honey! hugs, hugs, hugs.
I get this. When I tracked down NOP's posts here and read them - it was probably one of the most painful things I have experienced. So, hugs to you, sweetie. On the occasion that I'm tracking down an old post of his in response to someone - I revisit that pain. It doesn't exactly put me in a real good place. So, if you found it too painful, you might want to avoid it in the future if it leads to rehashing.
Could it be that he wanted to be the man (christian) in your relationship and that you were too assertive, aggressive, too strong of a woman for him? It's a lot harder to be the alpha male when you are married to the alpha female.
Betsey 
