Time to Rebuild

[Jen_Jam]

I finally got a locked thread!!! Previous one is here
Jen_Jam's thread

Well, its a good time to start a new one cos H and I talked last night, wow it was a rollacoaster, I broke just about EVERY DB rule, became a WAW for an hour but the talk ended with H and I recomitting at 1am!!!!
He agrees to building a new and better relationship. I will post more later on this - some of our old patterns are well and truly broken - loads to tell, got to take it in myself a bit too, but it IS good news.
I would like to continue posting here, just to give a roundedness to the whole situation. I don't just want to say "hey I'm not getting a D I'm outta here!!!" and also I realise the road ahead isn't going to be smooth. As Michelle says, the DB never really stops.
OK - must go, more tomorrow when I'll have a little more time.

[JiminyCricket]

Hi Jen

Please keep posting would love to know how you did it and how it goes over the next few weeks.

Good Luck and hang in there!!

JC

[Jen_Jam]

OK - the long post explaining what happened.
First - a synopsis of my situaion:
M - 35 H - 36 1st bomb 5th Sept 2005. Got back together Nov/Dec 05, but 2nd bomb (although not a D bomb) end of March 06.
Found DB in May, been doing it properly since June, recomittment 4th Oct 06.
Reasons for bomb (gathered over months!) - H wanted more freedom to go out with friends, I was too clingy, used to make unreasonable demands, shouting, sulking, urgh! H avoids conflict and goes with the flow until he exploded.

Next - to answer some questions from my previous thread:

Swashy - the overtime I'm doing isn't connected qwith my M. We are short staffed at work and I've agreed to take on more work in the hope of a pay rise. I could do with the money to pay off the debt I got on credit cards during our S! (But I had a good time - trips to Italy and Budapest, lots of clothes shopping, all helped me feel better). The debt is manageable but I have to deal with it sooner rather then later.

InHisHands - don't worry about getting muddled with posting - it made me laugh

Krylos - I haven't read the Five Langs of Love but I've seen it mentioned a lot and I will be getting my mitts on a copy. It sounds like a good book, especially for someone like me who is sometimes a bit insensitive to the feelings of others.

Rob - you're right about the dinner. I should ask nicely rather than hoping he'll read my mind. I have asked nicely now. Also the housework - I used to have really high standards, now I do let things slide. I still feel guilty though - my parents' house is really tidy (some people have said almost clinical) and I can feel myself creating their disapproval in my head. My R with my parents was good, I can't complain that I had everything a child needs but they could be quite critical - something to work on myself with, I know I have been critical of others too. But just cos I grew up with that doesn't mean I have to live my life like that.

OK - onto what happened.
Wes night I was feelnig angry, as you'll nkow from previous thread. New me knew old me would have pouted then shouted, so new me gave her the elbow.
But it left me in a difficult situation - it didn't help that I was really tired too. Got to the pub and somehow we ended up having an R talk - I think from me saying I'm so overwhelmed right now. He asked how he could help and I said I'd love it if he cooked more. We talked about this and he says he's been afraid to expreiment with meals in case I didn't like them. I suggested we do grocery shopping together for a while so we can learn the food each other likes (married 3 years and still don't know - crazy I know!).
We talked about Saturday - we are going to a party. This party is at the flat of the (male) friend he stayed in when we were S. This male friend is a divorcee, had a MLC and left. ow he parties all the time and is really happy (his W remarried, had a baby and is also v happy). I feel uncomfortable there for a couple of reasons:
1. This friend is pro-D, can be a little judgemental in his views too, although is happy to change his POV if faced with evidence. He's not a bad guy at all. I just feel under observation from him. I will not discuss this with H cos there is nothing H can do to help me on this. If it becomes a problem for me and H/our M then I will talk, otherwise not.
2. The friend's partying also involves taking ecstacy and cocaine. Now, I have no problem if people want to do these drugs - who am I to control anyone else - but I don't really like being around people who are on them )find them arrogant and annoying). H doesn't feel like this.
Anyhow, we got into a discussion about the party, H saying last time I wanted to leave earlier than he did, I wasn't enjoying myself as much as him, this is when I became a WAW. I was really convinced that that was it. Why? Cos all I could see if H wanting one thing and me another. I told H there was no hope for our M.
I asked him if he wanted another beer. He asked me if I wanted another beer. ARGH!!! This is him doing the conflict avoidance again. He said he didn't mean to be difficult. I said "you ARE difficult". This is SO non-DB but bear in mind at this point I was a WAW.
We got into a conversation like this:
Me: "I obviously don't make you happy"
H "yes, you do. I obviously dont' make you happy"
Me: "yes, you do, I obviously...."
You can see where it was going. We were arguing about the same thing. So we stopped, talked it over and I asked (bad DB!) if the good times were finally over. H said yes, that he loves me and the times he will want to spend time with anyone other than me will be rare.
He also talked about his memory - he has a really bad one, rellies on reminders from his mobile, he says he gets annoyed with himself. I found myself FINALLY accepting this - I have always thought he was just lazy and that was a convenient excuse. I came up with a few suggestions to help (eg he can never remember if we have things organisd at the weekend, I said how about getting a calendar we can write on when things are happening, we can both check against that. He likes that idea).

I think I have fnially realised how this all happened.
I used to be a nasty person - shouting, bad temper, selfish, inflexible, critical, blaming H for everything.
Early in 2005 I decided not to be so horrible anymore - that if continued like that I was going to lose him. I decided to change. I became more affectionate, loving, stopped the shouting.
H suggested that we occasionally have nights out separatly, with our friends. For example, he might want to go and see a band I don't like, I might want a GNO (girls night out).
I saw this as H pulling away. I thought that he was trying to get rid of me. What did I do? Cling tighter, refuse his suggestion and in the end nearly suffocated all the life out of our M.
OK, there were other things to be looked at in our M but I think this was the main problem.

So - my 180 - which I have done and will continue to - have nights out without him, and when he goes wish him a good time.

To finish, H and I had a mini R talk last night and agreed that we would BOTH put more effort in and if we wanted something and the way we were trying to get it wasn't working we wouldn't give in but would try an new approach (cheeseless tunnels). H said as well that he thinks our R can be better than it ever was

So - that is where we are. Since then there have been freely given kisses and cuddles, smiles and relaxation. We are finally in the position I wanted to be in last year - R rebuilding mode. The DB doesn't stop and I'm not thinking "that's it! Everything will be fine now" but I feel better equipped for this now.

I will still be posting, though, I would like to document the R rebuilding, if you'd like to listen? (well, even if you wouldn't I'll still post!!)

Take care each and every one, treat yourself and everyone about you with compassion (even the aliens).

[SDFoundGirl]

Jen,

Man, after reading your whole description of yourself and your H, all I can say is you and I are a lot alike, and our H's are a lot alike. SO similar it's scary.

Glad things are looking up. Definitely keep on posting b/c I'm learning a lot from your path.

SD

[Jen_Jam]

Hey SD - I've always thought you were me and your H was my H too! Are you sure you're not really living in the UK? I'm DEF not living in the US - the weather here is awful!!!

[kneednhelp]

I'm liking the discussions here and I think I am also in some similar situations. JJam I hear you about the rollercoaster ride, but I do agree that you need to keep in touch with people and as you are listening and helping me I think it makes us stronger. I would love to know more about your situation as well. I don't want to just be someone that talks , gets advice and never listens.
kneedn

[Jen_Jam]

Argh!!!! Putting it all back together has becoem so hard.
I messed up on Saturday - was feeling uncomfortable at the party we were at, had too much to drink and shouted at H in the middle of the party it was over than ran away.
I was a complete and utter idiot.
However, H and I have made it up - he says one wrong doesn't undo everything. We talked about it and this is a symptom of me bottling it all up. H knows I can be firey and he doesn't think that's a bad thing, but I have to channel that fire properly.
I am most ashamed of myself, I thought I had got rid of the bad tempered girl in me and she made a surprise appearance. I am so disappointed in myself.
Ironiccally, it has brought H and I much closer together
But I think now, and H agrees, we CAN finally talk. I am at such a crossroads because we are (in H's words) "creating something better than before" and I've realised I've carried about all my useless baggage from R to R in the past, now it's a comlpetely new start and I'm clueless!!!!
I've spent SO long trying to avoid R talk, now I have to have it (although I can't do it all the time, it's far too draining). I've left the DR book about and H has agreed to dip nito it and have a read - a few of the myths of M which I read to him last night surprised him. I suppose it might help if H and I were on the same page, so to speak.
So - I have to forgive myself for Saturday, and move forward. I told H I did feel some anger, that I acknowledge he didnt' want any anger but I said I still felt a little but made it very clear that I did NOT want this anger, I wanted to move away from it. I think he liked that.

So - to me right now piecing feels so hard, harder than DB!!!! I didn't expect this. I've been readin through as many piecing situations as I can but can't find anything so far. Yes the trust needs to be rebuild (by the way there was no OM or OW for us) but I'm not sure how. H and I are saying ILY a lot, I just don't want to mess this all up.
Is there anyone out there who has been through the rebuilding and can advise? I'm sorry I sound so clueless, I can't believe I've finally got what I wanted and now I don't know what to do with it - I'm scared of messing it all up again.

[SDFoundGirl]

First, you have to really, truly forgive yourself. You are *gasp* HUMAN. We screw up sometimes.

Also, it is okay to be angry, it is just not okay to hold onto it or act out of anger. I think good relationships are when people are able to tell their S, "When you did X, it made me really angry." Anger is a natural emotion. I am still angry w/H about letter woman...mostly b/c he won't really talk about it yet w/me. When he does, I think it will be easy to let go of.

So how do we keep from changing back? By doing what we were doing during DB. Continue working on PMA, GAL, and finding love and acceptance for yourself. Keep working on YOU; your H sees what you've done, and that's why he was so able to deal with that situation. My H sees my changes as well, and that's why he's starting to accept those changes wholeheartedly.

Yes, I think this is hard, harder even than DBing. Do you know why? Part of it is adrenaline, but the other part is the fact our Hs haven't gone through the same transformation as we have. We don't trust that one little thing isn't going to set them off....my worry, Jen, is that I'll do one little thing to screw things up OR H will just flake out and take off. That's my issue right now, the issue we're going to spend a lot of time on in MC. Could that be happening for you as well? We can predict our own behavior, but no one else's. After all, this came out of the blue for us in the first place.

How do we trust that things are going well? How do we ever completely leave that tense feeling in our gut behind? Have you ever really, completely relaxed since this all happened in your H's presence? I haven't. It's always there in my mind, always. Even when ML. It's going to be there for a long, long time.

Your H had issues with the M, but so did you. He got what he needed, and now it's your turn. Use that new open communication to deal with these things as a couple.

SD

[runningoutoftime]

I have to confess, I did stuff like this after my husband's first affair about 11 years ago (the "post-baby affair"). I was what I would call a crazed nut for about 3 years, and I still had occassional outbursts over the last 10 years.

I don't know if it's the divorce that helped this time, the fact I've gone through it before, the best GALing summer of my life, maturity (being older but looking HOT), or the 10mg of celexa the doctor prescribed for me, but I feel completely different this time (following the MLC affair!). I feel really positive about myself, my life, my husband, my family. I can't say I've been 100% positive all the time, but those lows are no where near as low as they used to be, and I'm not reacting like a nut anymore. It's REALLY NICE!!!!

My suggestion.... I'd say give individual counciling a try and if you still have severe ups and downs after time has passed (6 months, or a year) consider trying low dose antidepressants. I don't like to recommend meds since I don't personally like them, but they can be tremendously helpful in really difficult times.

[Jen_Jam]

Thank you both for your kind posts - they have helped and also confirmed a couple of things I was thinking anyway.
Forgiveness - yes, I have to forgive myself. I don't understand why I've been forgiven by everyone in this except myself. The couple whose party it was have forgiven me, H has forgiven me and I don't understand why.
It's like when people like me - I often can't see what it is they like. This is my low self esteem rearing its ugly head again and it's annoying cos I thought I had it licked.
So - Running I had already booked myself in for councelling before your post, I'm glad you said so cos I wasn't sure if it was the right thing but I can't see it doing me anything but good.
Finally, I remembered that love is a decision so it follows happiness is as well. I've chosen happiness, it's almost like I'm DB'ing on myself. Another thing which helped me was reading the Infidelity section of DR. Now, there never was an OP in our situation, but some of the feelings Michelle wrote that the betrayed spouse would be feeling is what I have, only mine are watered down. It was such a relief to read that what I'm feeling is normal. I really thought when the D was busted we'd have this magical honeymoon period where we'd both be happy and talking and ML'ing. Guess what? Life STILL gets in the way - the overtime we both get forced into to make ends meet, the gym sessions so we don't get fat, and H has had a cold this week. SO I'm classing this stage I'm in now as Relationship Rebuilding - RR - and I will still need to DB a bit BUT I think it's going to be....how do I describe this? You know when you've just been bombed and you're starting DB it feels REALLY LOUD - it's almost as if your head is shouting you the DB instructions. Now it's a little calmer, a little quieter.
SD - If you would like to write the DB part II with me I'd be more than happy, it's funny how I feel almost as if I have to re-read DR (which I am doing) and go back to square 1 and start again with DB, but it's less urgent, a little easier and I'm more likely to get a respnse out of H much quicker. RR is chilled out/laid back DB.
SO - that's it really. I'll keep posting here, I think I will need to. I have my first councelling session on Monday, going to get at the bottom of my self esteem and I know it lies in my childhood. I'm scared cos if I dig too deep there I do start to cry - last time in M councelling we touched on my childhood and I cried all night.
Anywhow - I will let you know how that goes too, take care each and every one and have a great Saturday.