w 37, me 45, 3 children (8, 4.5, 3). married 10. i am the high-desire in the relationship, but not out of norms. once a week, even once every other week would be a wow for me. i don't need it per se, but it's nice to feel accepted intimately on that level and connect with the one i care for deeply.
i am very attracted to my wife: smart, creative, attractive, successful, etc. she's got a lot of stress (me 2 - both professionals). she probably has an issue with depression (but will not admit it), taking a number of meds for allergies. combination is nojoy, i know.
she feels we need to have a better relationship in order for her to feel sexually interested. me: i am lonely beyond words. little to no affection displayed, specially in front of our little ones. i tolerate probably above normal amounts of fault-finding. i'm engaged in house and children - we have a system of dividing responsibilities. i'm not a slacker. i rarely hear good job, thanks, etc.
most rare: i hear i'm sorry maybe once every other year.
i'm the 99% initiator when it comes to making love. i've dealt with increasing amounts of rejection over the years. she used to be an average sexual motivated woman, but with each child, it's become less and less.
last vacation taken in the beginning of summer, we did not do it at all. usually a vacation is good for at least one opportunity. the distractions of travel and novelty of surroundings and co-experience generates a lot of good will and some interest.
not this past time though.
i'm number 4 in her priority list, perhaps 5, because her job seems to be #1 in terms of her efforts of late, the kids 2, 3 and 4.
she tells me any talk of sex adds to her level of stress about the relationship. i think because we don't do it very often, she seeks ways to avoid it.
our MC suggested SSM book. i read it in 2 nights which is lightning fast for me. my wife has it now; she's a very well read person and fast reader - you've probably guessed, she's slogging through it like it's war and peace or something.
2 weeks ago we made love. wife enjoyed it (or said so). she probably did it out of guilt though as it had been about 3.5-4 months since the last time...
i tell her all the time how i love her, how sexy she looks. i give her light kisses and sometimes a love pat. i do not attack her.
i was doing pretty good about not pressuring her into making love based on the SSM book, just doing the things asked of me during the MC sessions which she feels would benefit the relationship.
this morning she said she was in the mood i think motivated by us setting up a vacation overseas around work. we start but can't find any lubricant, so that hunt turns me off and i suggest we go buy some and have a mommy and daddy meeting in the evening.
that falls on deaf ears, after hunting about and not finding any...she relocks the BR door, and masterbates herself with my penis and starts to lubricate, we get going, and the kids loose interest in what they were doing and start breaking down the door. that does it for me and i loose it and start raising my voice because i'm beyond frustrated. how convenient for her. this does in another rare opportunity... wife not interested (at all) this evening. more fault finding - this time with my reaction to the situation.
i am not only sex-starved, i feel attention starved. i feel there's no love or cherishing directed my way.
I know how you feel (well we all do here!). And I also know what you mean by being higher drive but would be quite happy with once every week or two, it's not like you are some kind of sex maniac - right?
It is so rarely realised by LD spouse what they are doing to the HD spouse, they just really don't get it. I posted recently on this board about a weekend sailing trip where I felt so lonely I would have welcomed the chance to sleep with a good friend of mine - in reality I love my H and I don't want an affair with another man, but the constant rejection does wear you down.
My suggestion is scheduled sex, it has worked for a few people on this board and it could work for you. If you both agreed to one night a week (obviously with one week off a month) when you would be prepared (lubricant handy ), kids already tucked up in bed. Other issues put away and dealt with that you tend the marriage garden and ML. Can you negotiate this with her? Can you negotiate it in return for something she would like you to do.
She will most likely deflect with protests about not being in the mood or it not being spontaneous enough etc, Agree with her that it may feel like that but hold to the line that this is NECESSARY for the relationship to survive and thrive, and that you are just as willing to go outside your comfort zone on an equal basis and do something for her that would make her feel cherished.
The benefit of this system for those here who have tried it is that both partners relax about not doing it the rest of the time. The LD spouse feels safe from pressure and the HD spouse feels comfortable knowing when they will be getting some.
I grant you it does feel a little weird, it is not something I have yet suggested to my H, but it is definitely on my agenda to do so.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
i have tried the scheduled thing but there is always an excuse. if there is no excuse then there's the "let's get it over with". and when there's the let's get it over with, there's a good chance something is going to come up to make it a no go.
i suggest you present your offer to your H. it may just work for you. i think you've got it well reasoned; you are articulate and can put it forward in a positive manner.
i've tried and tried to get to the bottom of the less than LD position she's taken, and that I have come to learn is part of the problem.
i've tried the seesaw approach, but there's no advancement on her part back towards me.
i don't believe she's slept with anyone else, but i know she's fantisized about at least one past partner where it was clear the sex was frequent and "great".
today she indicated she wasn't thrilled with a weight control issue i've been struggling with as of late. she says maybe she'd feel more amorous if i was in better condition.
funny - i know how sensitive women can be about appearence with all the mass media emphasis. i've always always found my wife attractive with her weight fluctuations.
the problem for me is there's little to no reflection of the love i express towards her on her part. i think she's mentally disengaged.
i know this is gonna sound crazy, but if i say in a heart-felt manner, "i love you", this just makes things more difficult for her.
so - not only do i have to deal with not getting real intimacy (sexual or otherwise), i have to deal with being too expressive of my desire (and i don't mean just sexual).
Have you compared LL between you and your wife? There are lots of references to them around here and it is a good place to start. Understanding what your partner needs to feel connected is a big step.
There is a wonderful book that describes each LL in great detail, but a bit of searching can provide an overview of each LL.
LL = Love Language
If your local bookstore or library does not have one, look for it on amazon.com by searching for isbn number 1881273156
2 weeks ago we made love. wife enjoyed it (or said so). she probably did it out of guilt though as it had been about 3.5-4 months since the last time
Or it could have been because she read the book and wanted to try and make some changes.
Or she decided to express her love for you in the language you appreciate the most.
What purpose is served by mentally & emotionally discounting what occurred?
Quote: this morning she said she was in the mood i think motivated by us setting up a vacation overseas around work. we start but can't find any lubricant, so that hunt turns me off and i suggest we go buy some and have a mommy and daddy meeting in the evening.
that falls on deaf ears, after hunting about and not finding any...she relocks the BR door, and masterbates herself with my penis and starts to lubricate, we get going, and the kids loose interest in what they were doing and start breaking down the door. that does it for me and i loose it and start raising my voice because i'm beyond frustrated. how convenient for her. this does in another rare opportunity... wife not interested (at all) this evening. more fault finding - this time with my reaction to the situation.
"how convenient for her."
I can understand the massive riptides of anger that you as HD spouse can be battling, but it does not serve you or your marriage to entertain this line of thought.
She intiates.
Pushes past the lack of lube.
Masterbates with your penis.
Kids interrupt.
She's willing to keep going.
You lose it and are blaming her for the situation & result.
She later tells you that she's no longer interested because of the interactions earlier.
You blame her, she blames you.
Can you see where you had several opportunities to turn this around to something positive?
i appreciate your reply. you are correct of course, my anger out of frustration got the best of me.
when she couldn't find the lube, i suggested we postpone it till later until we had some, and she said that's not likely.
as the kids are breaking down the door, i asked if we could do it later.
riptides would be an understatement of course. i know i have to change my reaction.
btw: we've had the children interrupt probably 5 lovemaking sessions out of 15... i suppose i'm pre-disposed to believing when my wife is inclined, we're likely to be interrupted.
now then, wouldn't it be appropriate to come back to the effort, much like finishing a conversation and bringing closure to one? the answer for us is no, unfortunately.
"As a man, I think you brush it off and try again. As a woman, I take it personally, like "what is wrong with me?" type of thinking."
I think most men, including myself, take rejection VERY personally, and it is a huge blow to our ego when the woman who supposedly loves us more than anything else in the world rejects us for sex. In many men's minds that is one of the primary reasons they got married.
Now that I have become more educated I realize that rejection has many causes and not all of them are directed against me. Even so I still struggle with it. I think most guys though haven't put much time into educating themselves about R issues, so for them rejection is still very personal.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if many men who were rejected by their W's while the kids were young, reject their W's in turn when the kids get older in some part as a measure of revenge, maybe not even consciously. Not that I'm saying that mindset is justified, but I can see it happening.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Re Chrom It wouldn't surprise me at all if many men who were rejected by their W's while the kids were young, reject their W's in turn when the kids get older in some part as a measure of revenge, maybe not even consciously.
chrom, I can only say what I do, feel, or think so am not generalizing.
About the some measure of revenge, well I am not a revenge guy but I am subject to changing priorities, meaning if sex used to be a 3X a week want and sex only happened 2X a month, and I found something else to do to take the place of sex, then if BB suddenly wanted sex 3X a week and I learned to be happy with my way of doing things, maybe I would do the sex thing once or twice a week because I learned to be happy with other things I did to get over wanting sex 3X a week.
What I am emphasizing, don't assume there is revenge before looking at, how did the person adapt during a time of shortage.
Like many here, sex has been in short supply, and gets doled out with some not-so-nice comments. I am in the process of finding something else to do because I don't think or see any changes taking place. I am trying to change my brain chemistry and I am only guessing this process takes place.
So to think of revenge, how about thinking a persons need for sex has dropped. How about thinking the HD person has found other things s/he has elevated on their priority list.
When the 1964 and a 1/2 ford mustangs came out, I wanted one. I don't and haven't wanted one for a long time. What changed in my brain? I am sure it is not revenge, or me using sour grapes model. I say it was a mental shift.
I think people want something for so long and after not getting it, realise they probably won't get it, realize the cost is too high, realize something else can be almost as rewarding.
I am not saying revenge doesn't happen, but want everyone to consider something like substitution's are now higher on a person's want list.
I am to the point where sex cost too much emotionally. I have to find something I can mentally afford.
I hope that helps some women or men by adding to their list of what might have gone wrong and helps to avoid feeling like someone is out to get them or thinking it's payback time.
Crom I think most men, including myself, take rejection VERY personally, and it is a huge blow to our ego when the woman who supposedly loves us more than anything else in the world rejects us for sex. In many men's minds that is one of the primary reasons they got married.
To crazymom, After 20+ years of hearing, "we just did it" "why do you always want sex" (once every 10 days) or Bb saying she is too old for sex or sex is for making babies and she doesnt want any more, sorry, but the part about men taking rejection and just trying again, well maybe we can handel rejection better than some women but I can honestly say {IT HURTS} it sucke. If I had to get married again today to BB (think 5-10 year renewal contract), I would pass.
You see there is love, but rejection and problems suck the life out of that love. Don't down play the importance of sex and a man wanting to feel part of a relationship and I am not talking room mates or borther/sister or lets just be friends relationships.
Without the sex, the bonding, well the M is not what it should be by a long shot.
Don't get me wrong, I doubt very many men would be DRIVEN by revenge and deny sex later (with the exception of PitHarmon who seems to be completely dominated by it), it may just be an unconscious thing. I'll bet many men in these situations store the resentment, and then as you say move other things up on the priority list. Then when/if the W starts to get horny, the combination of unconscious/stuffed resentment (which produces a revenge response) and the fact that it is a low priority can lead to a HD/LD role reversal.
But I will openly admit, in those really quiet moments in life, when my mind wanders through all of its dark corners, the thought "if she suddenly were to become really HD about 5-10 years from now, I would be able to get her back!" pops into my head. I dismiss it out of hand, because I plan on remaining HD until my parts fall off, but the thought does lurk there. I am not a revenge person either, but sometimes our deepest feelings can be hidden even from ourselves.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
), kids already tucked up in bed. Other issues put away and dealt with that you tend the marriage garden and ML. Can you negotiate this with her? Can you negotiate it in return for something she would like you to do.