Hi WAWfighter, I too left the BB once my WAH returned home and it went sour fast and I realized I needed to stay here more than ever to keep it going. I successfuly DB'd also and he was only home a month before saying he was re-thinking his decision. Anyway, I continue to DB and that seems to be working again.
My suggestion for you is to maybe offer to rub her shoulders or something in the evening. It will seem innocent enough, you can say that she seems stressed and sit down and you'll help her relax. Preferably do this sitting up in bed after the kids are tucked in so you can take it to the next level if she allows it.
It's a good way to touch her in a non-threatening manner and although it may not morph into sex the first time you do it, it'll help build a foundation and show her that you are being physically supportive with no expectations. Of course you'll have to have major self control but hopefully not for long!
Kids are the glue that hold us together sometimes. That's ok. Like you said, whatever the reason, she is there. Now you can work together to make sure that you turn the M into what you each need it to be.
how to listen and not be Mr. fixit.
I've read quite a few books throughout this process, and not all of them have been very helpful. But one that I recommend is called "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better". It's a great book about listening, validating, being in the moment with people without trying to solve the problems that are rightfully theirs to solve....it really drives home the point that people don't WANT you to solve their problems anyway, they really just want you to be THERE, just listen. Ask them what THEY think they should do, what feels right to them. Making our partners feel heard is crucial at this stage in our Ms. Check it out. It's a GREAT communication manual.
Another book to check out is called Passionate Marriage. In the book, the author talks about a long hug.....really connecting with someone without feeling the need to pull away. That would be a great place to start with your W I think. Just long, meaningful hugs, feeling one another and trusting that feeling. Try that and let me know how it goes.
That's great that you found a 180 that she noticed and appreciated. Not storming out during an argument is a really positive change. For me, it would not only tell me that you care enough to work out the issue, but also that you have enough control and confidence in yourself to be able to hold onto yourself without having an emotional meltdown. It will eventually build her respect for you if you can calmly state your position while remaining engaged in the conversation. I struggle with this immensely, but I think it's such a worthwhile goal. Have you come up with any other 180s that could make significant changes in your R?
Let me ask you something. What is your ultimate goal for your M? What would you like to be able to say about the R you have with your W?
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Thanks ladies. I don’t know about the back rub, that may really be pushing it. As I said earlier, I was in hog heaven the other night when our hands touched in bed and she kept hers on mine for a while. It’s funny; she used to ask me why I can’t just “make out” with her in bed without expecting sex all the time. I wish I had that opportunity right now.
Thanks for the book suggestion. Right now I am re-reading “How One of You Can Bring the Two of You Together” by Susan Page. It has the same principals as Michelle but re-stated in different ways and suggestions. I recommend it.
Now, what is the ultimate goal for my marriage? I know I am not supposed to say this, but I want things the way they were (less of course my complacent behavior and lack of listening). My W and I used to be just plain silly and immature together. One thing I have thought is wow, my wife had an A, how grown up and serious is this? We were never grown up and serious and we loved it. W used to say ILY to me out of the blue and even said that she probably loved me more than I loved her. It was not true then and I told here that. The word divorce was just not in our lexicon. Also, I want this pit that has moved into my stomach on a full time basis to be gone!
As stated earlier, W has built this huge wall around her heart as a result of her perception that I was not there for her when her mom died. I want so much for that wall to come down or at least for me to be allowed inside of it. In a fit of emotion a few months ago, she actually asked me if I was waiting for her to love me again so I could leave her. She obviously has these huge abandonment issues that I don’t know how to combat except with time.
Anyway, sorry I ramble. Now, heatherg, let me ask you this. You had both a PA and EA. How long did it take you to get over them before them before you started having feelings for your H again? Keep in mind, my W had the A, but I appear to be the one trying to work on the R.
Well look what the cat draged in. Good to see you WF. Sorry to see your back posting, but at least it for better reason than last years.
I have a few suggestions. #1 read 5 Love Lanuage. #2 Have you been able to talk to her about whats bugging you? Maybe she's not interesting in ML, b/c she doesn't think you want to. There is another book that I found helpful. Something about After the Affair, I can't remember the whole title.
Something I noticed about DBing, is that there's not alot of info on the aftermath. We have been on such rollercoaster rides. We all have managed to detach from the situations during that time. We have been taught many new skills. But we have not been shown how to forget all the hurt and the pain. 4/10 times my H and I ML, I still get nasty thoughts in my head about his OW. We've been together, Strong and happy for 16 months now. It gets better all the time, but thanks to family and friends, and H, I will never be able to forget about this experience. I'm still dealing with it. But I have found that if I'm more open about how I'm feeling with H, he's alot better about helping me through whatever. Personally, I enjoy when H tells me whats going on, b/c we're a team. Just like your W and you. You need to do whatever it takes to make love exciting.
PL! Long time no see. REALLY nice to hear from you and thanks for your advice.
I have a difficult time talking to W about things because she still gets very defensive about anything. So right now I'm just working on being patient and being her friend. And yes, DBing should never stop.
Re ML, this is a very tough (oops, no pun intended) sitch as I am really looking for her to make the first move as that would be a huge indicator that she is feeling closer to me. On the other hand, I agree that I don't ever want her to think that I am not interested in her as that would be the farthest from the truth.
I am very glad to see you and H are doing well. Please keep in touch and ALL advice is greatly welcome.
No problem, it was suggested to me by NYSurvivor before he left the boards if that lends any credibility to the recommendation
I was thinking the same thing as Pipeliner's Wife, that it might be a good place to start to tell your W that you would like to be intimate with her in whatever ways she feels comfortable.
Now, heatherg, let me ask you this. You had both a PA and EA. How long did it take you to get over them before them before you started having feelings for your H again?
I never really lost my feelings for my H. The PA I had was probably more akin to a one night stand than a love affair. I kissed somebody and spent some time with them when I should have been at home. That was the physical part. I didn't have any difficulty severing my ties with him, in fact once I realized how hurt my H really was, OM really just made me feel sick to my stomach.
The EA was a little different because your mind can fill in the blanks in the most positve way, kwim? I did have a difficult time not contacting him anymore because I really did get used to speaking to him via internet at night. I felt very alone in my R and this internet thing made me feel connected to someone...it was hard to let that go, particularly because after I told H I needed a friend more than ever. But I actually got turned off from this guy as well, as he and his W found out she was pregnant and he still wanted to talk to me, carry on this R with me. I thought that was terrible....if he could do that to his W and unborn child I really didn't want anything to do with him. I said goodbye and asked that he not reply to this last email.
So, here I am. Honestly I was shocked at how hurt my H was by the whole thing because all along when I presented a problem, he would not acknowledge it and if I said I wanted to leave him he would tell me to do what I needed to do.
So, in my case, the more appropriate question is how long will it take H to develop feelings for me again? Will he ever be willing to communicate love for me even if he does feel it? I have not heard I love you, been kissed on the lips or slept in the same bed as him in over two years. Nor does he wear his wedding ring. So, my friend, I don't know what else to say about that.
I have a difficult time talking to W about things because she still gets very defensive about anything.
Are you pretty sure that you're not coming across offensively?
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Wow, it sounds like you were going through what my wife was. I was not ignoring her, but I certainly could have been more there for her. The separation and A was certainly a wake up call for me, like a 2x4 across the head.
The dichotomy is that I would do anything to get her to feel close to me again even though I am the “offended party” here. She does not seem to be lifting a finger toward our R.
Am/Was I being offensive? Great question. I certainly was when I confronted her about her continuing A and she was lying through her teeth to me (this is not speculation; I knew that for a fact.) However, even when I hint that I would like to discuss how we are doing, she gets very uptight, so, I just don’t.
Re ML, I know her, and she needs to once again feel close to me to want to do that. That’s what I’m trying to accomplish. Funny, all of us on this board want to make our Marriages work again, we all share that desire. Many if not most of our spouses want the same things but may not feel it is possible. I often feel that my W no longer has a desire to make it work as she just thinks it can’t. That’s what I am facing here.
Thanks heatherg, and not to be one sided, please let me know if there’s any thing I could possibly answer for you.
The A I though was over three mos ago may not be. OM left a VM for W at work saying to call him and W saved it. I am really at a loss as to how to handle this, as I feel I keep losing credibility with every confrontation. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
I kind of was in the same sitch. I confronted over the last 3 months like crazy. NOT good DBing. But I didn't care. It had the desired effect and WAW stopped the A last week.
I don't know what effect it had on our R though. So I don't recommend doing it. I just couldn't go otherwise.
Hey WAW, sorry to hear that things may have taken a turn. I personally would not confront her. Yet. Be calm, be cautious, but most importantly be smart. If you are starting to lose credibility with your accusations, then you need to make sure you have enough information before you confront her. Waiting it out will serve that purpose as well as the purpose of her not realizing you are onto her. If there is something going on and you confront her this early on it, she will be extra careful to cover every track. If she thinks you're in the dark and not suspicious, you may be able to get more information than you otherwise would. This could be really, really serious and I would do whatever it takes to get the answers you need. Just do it quietly.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
