Quote: Hi, We've been married for fifteen years and looking back to figure out when it started, I find that when we were dating I should have known. I know this will get a sad little giggle, but, I really do feel that his LD is just twords me. In the seventeen years we have been together, I think I have turned down sex maybe twice. I believe he has had EAs. I talked w/H this evening and he admits to the lack of interest going back for seven years. That is about the time he had a disabling injury. But, I can recall problems and conversations as far back as 14 years. When we were first married, he told me about one day at the base (military) and all the young guys talking about the best sex they ever had. When they asked him he simply replied with "I married it", I believe he ment it. When we do ML it is earth shattering. We always said that the bedroom was the one place we didn't have problems. The only problem is acually getting him to the bedroom. At least 95% of the time he sleeps on the couch, even when our marriage is doing well. I think we miss alot of opportunities to ML or feel close because of proximity. You can't rollover in the middle of the night or early in the morning and just let things happen naturally. There is no chance for him to get into the mood, unless he's already interested. If he wakes up in the middle of the night it's a shorter walk to the computer and a lot less effort to take care of himself than to show interest in me. I have alot of internal struggles with self esteem, I often feel like I'm fighting with his opinion of me, and who I want to be. I've been to counseling for myself, about 4 years ago I went through a very bad depression with thoughts of suicide. We were in marriage counseling at the time which was absolutely horrible. each week there would be something new I would have to change or work on (which was fine, I am very willing to work on me) After about 5 sessions together I was given the homework of yell at the kids less and to show H how I do the finances. After these few sessions where I had to work on something new and again H had no homework. I asked what his homework should be. When I suggested the he stop writting love letters to women on the internet, the counselor said "Well he must have needs that aren't being met at home." So again I faithfully did my homework and no expectations were put upon him. And get this, he's the one that ended going to counseling.
There has been a constant struggle throughout our marriage with he loves me, he loves me not. I try to use "I" statements and let him know how I feel about issues in our marriage. To the extent that one argument began with me saying "I feel- and being cut off with a burst from him of "You feel, you feel, everybody knows how you feel" I then told him that's great, but nobody knows how you feel and I've obviously been really bad at guessing. Then as usual a quick exit by H.
I feel completely undesirable. Once about 10 yrs ago I was out dancing with my friends (an uncommon occurence) and when a mutual friend of my H and I kissed me I completely freaked out. I quickly left the club and cried hysterically. I couldn't believe that someone could have any interest in me.
I think that his lack of affection and running hot then cold, stems from a fear of intimacy. I use to love rollercoasters but now they just give me a headache. There have been so many ups and downs in our marriage, either begging or ending with sexual problems, that I also wonder if it's all been worth it. I have experienced every emotion because of our sex life.
I have recently considered an affair, I actually went on a date with this OM. We met for a drink after work. No, I do not work with him. I just can't do it. He walked me to my car and asked me if I was sure this is what I want to do? I said that I'm not sure of anything anymore. He said he wasn't going to pressure me and that he wanted all of me and would wait til I knew for sure. I haven't talked to him since that night. I just got in my car and drove home.
Reading over what I've written, I must sound like an unstable person. I wasn't always so scared and pathetic. My H's brother and I are very close. He says he really misses that 19yr old girl that could stop the world when she wanted to. I have to agree that I miss her to.
Lil replied
Quote: Honey, you don't sound unstable at all. You sound like a perfectly normal person having a perfectly normal reaction to a crazymaking situation.
I hope the counselor you have now is more supportive of YOU and does not take sides the way the other one did. If you were the only one who ever had homework, that sounde very lopsided.
It's time for you to get your feet on the ground, regardless of how your H reacts to you. I mean not just in the bedroom but in your whole life. Your situation has evolved into one where you are focused on him and his reactions to you (or lack of reaction) and this has eroded your self esteem. This happens to lots of people-- it's really one of the potential pitfalls of marriage (or a job or parenthood), where your sense of yourself comes from something OUTSIDE of you.
I do have some ideas (mostly books, really, which is where I find my salvation... ), but I'd like to hear more from you. I'm starting a thread for you below. That is where people mostly interact and tell their stories. The board is slow on the weekends.
Welcome aboard.
Start here- Tell us about her:
Quote: My H's brother and I are very close. He says he really misses that 19yr old girl that could stop the world when she wanted to.
I've been reading alot in the last 4 months I've read
Love must be tough- Dr James Dobson Never be lied to again - Lieberman Getting the love you want - Harville Hendrix Living with the Passive Aggressive man - Wetzler Conscious divorce - susan allison I hate you-don't leave me kreisman Don't swet the small stuff for women - Carlson The Divorce Remedy - Weiner Davis The power of letting go - vredevelt Wild at Heart - John Eldredge Captivating - John and Stasi Eldredge The power of a praying wife - Stormie Omartian The total money makeover - Dave Ramsey
Let's just say that they know me at Borders. If you have any suggestions on what to read next I would appreciate it.
A helpful hint for those whose H are on the way out the door. When you do the goal setting steps in chapter 2 of The Divorce Remedy, don't leave it in the house. My H has never gone through my stuff. I had my goal sheet folded in half inside my book, inside a drawer that has only my clothes in it. While I was at work, he went through everything in my room and found my goals. This led to his being very angry and yelling about how he's told me it's over, nothing is going to change that. He then wanted to talk about the divorce and how that was going to work (house,kids,financially). I told him that since he has never wanted to work on our marriage, I now refuse to work on a divorce. I told him he was free to leave whenever he wanted to (without the kids), but I was not going to figure it out for him. He would have to learn how to take care of himself. He flipped out when I told him that. Yelled that it wouldn't matter if I jumped off a cliff, he said that if I wanted to kill myself he would get me the gun. At that point our 12D walked up behind him and he left and spent the night at his brothers. Probably the worst thing he's ever said to me and that my D heard this made it truly horrible. He was home the next day, as though nothing had happened.
I don't want to tell all my horror stories, I want to move forward and just don't know how to not get sucked in by his back and forth feelings of love, indifference and hatred.
Quote: Let's just say that they know me at Borders. If you have any suggestions on what to read next I would appreciate it.
LOL! You said that to the right group! We read a LOT around here!
I'm going to step back from the relationship books and focus more on books that will help YOU find solid footing. The ones currently sitting beside my desk are:
Come to Your Senses, by Stanley Block Creating Miracles, by Carolyn Miller The Gift of Our Compulsions, by Mary O'Malley Core Transformation (don't have it with me, I forget the author)
What these have in common is focus on YOU, on how to use your reactions to your partner and the world at large to find solace and safety within yourself. NOT as a way of "putting up with" him, but as a way of finding a solid launching pad for whatever course of action you end up taking.
When we're in the throes of these R problems, we feel so yanked around. It feels like our safety, our security, our very sanity depend on some whim of our partner. He was in a good mood, so we had a good day. He had a bad day at work and took it out on me. What we keep trying to discover is what we need to say or do or BE to MAKE our partner settle down and be the nice/good/caring person we know they can be. (This sounds like the approach your C took-- if you change, he will be better. VERY superficial way of looking at things.)
Alas, that approach-- I need to change so you can be nice to me-- does NOT seem to work. The people who post here have tried that over and over again for decades-- hairdog and Lou come to mind.
IMHO first, we have to get a better sense of ourselves apart from our partners moods, whims, temper, concessions-- everything. Who am I alone. Not who am I in terms of personality (i.e., what movies do I like, am I night/morning person, etc.), but stuff much deeper than that.
Imagine this: You are standing, holding a large bag. Into that bag, imagine that you place your thoughts, your memories, your preferences, your temperament-- imagine all the things that make you "you"-- place them in the bag. The fact that you can imagine placing all of these things in the bag, and yet there is still "someone" holding the bag that is not IN the bag... who is that "someone"? THAT is your solid foundation, your launching pad, the place of peace that no one can take away with their moods and whims and ugly words.
One does not reside there on a day-to-day basis, but it's important to stay in touch with that "someone." I think your 19-year old was in touch with her. She's still there. She hasn't changed; she can't change. She's the eternal part of you (don't know how religious you are... so won't use the G-word). This part of you is like your compass and gyroscope. It keeps you level and on course.
Right now you feel that you're being tossed and turned by forces outside of you. Inside, your gyrocsope is still doing its job, and you will feel more level and grounded if you get in touch with that part. To me that has to happen before the relationship work can succeed or even really begin.
If you want to explore this further, I suggest a three-cd set called "True Meditation" by a Buddhist teacher called Adyashanti. It's only a little about meditation. It's much more about finding the peace within yourself, the place from which you orient yourself in these troubling life situations.
A R book that might be useful is "You Don't Have to Take It Anymore," by Steven Stosney. One of our posters often suggests Dr. Laura's "The Care and Feeding of Husbands." Others will probably add their own favorites.
I suggest you locate a therapist or spiritual counselor who will walk with you through these difficult times.
P.S. Most if not all of the authors I mentioned above have websites where you can sample their stuff. Adyashanti has some short readings that are excellent and thought-provoking. (If you read him, you'll see how ironic it is to describe him as "thought provoking." )
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