I know I have seen OCD first hand for many years. My Aunt had OCD and anxiety. She had to have a routine. Her house was immaculent. If things were out of place they had to be put back in order. She had one grocery store she would shop at. One loaf of bread that she liked to buy. If they were out of her bread she couldn't bring herself to purchase the other kind. She had this schedule also. Like Monday was grocery shopping day. Fridays they would go out to eat at one restaurant every week. If my Uncle happened to be sick on a Friday to say go on a Saturday it would throw her whole world off. It just couldn't happen if it didn't fit her routine. She would check things constantly. I mean OCD you didn't just have to sit and try to analyze if there were things that were happening that were consistent. It was so out there and plain to see that the things she did were so out of the ordinary from someone who didn't have this disorder.
To be truthful, I never paid much attention to the OCD aspect, even though W herself has admitted to having OCD. I think there are variations of this, as with any other disorder. She does create piles of stuff, thinking she will need it for something, though once she piles it she never seems to look through it again (she is keeping and using materials for her classes though). She has a bad habit of having to clean house just at the worst time, such as just before we leave on a trip, or late at night when the kids should be in bed (part of this is resentment that she let the kids make the mess in the first place). She also gets WAAAAY too engrossed in what she does and cannot pull away to do other more important or time dependent chores, which is why she still hasn’t cleaned all her stuff up. She doesn’t really want to clean it up and so lets herself get sidetracked on the computer until she is out of time to clean up.
This is not the severe checking the door 85 times type of OCD. But I do think she has it and I also think she uses it as an excuse to avoid her responsibilities. Sometimes it is easier to do as you please, not clean up, blame it on ADD or OCD, and rationalize away to imposition on others.
To Blackfoot’s comment, I think this is anxiety driven, but I understand OCD is nothing more than a set of habit and way of thinking to avoid stress. The “habit” gets so engrained that the emotional Pavlovian response sets in whenever an anxiety producing situation occurs. W knows enough to not fall into a really severe OCD ritual. I don’t think she is that severe, but the thing that is striking a chord with me is that her emotional response seems SOOO ingrained, not matter how much she (and we) have gone over an issue. She can understand it, agree to handle it differently, but once the situation arises, she falls right back to the same old behavior. To her credit I have seen some changes SLOWLY come about.
For instance, as you know, she and D13 have been at odds for a few weeks. Last night W told D13 to again clean her room (which D13 had found a way to put off the night before). D13 began to argue back. I intervened and told D13 to just finish her homework, then pick up her room like she had promised me the night before. I told W there was no need to curse at D13 (W was just starting up with a few curse words). I told W that she was coming off in a very commanding tone and D13 was reacting to it. W had a crumpled piece of paper in her hand and toss it in the air toward me as she walk past and huffed something about not telling her what to do. I ignored it, went up to talk to D13 and things settled down. She did her homework, I checked in with her about 3 more times to let her know I was monitoring her, and she did pick up her things.
But my point is that as soon as the familiar confrontation with W’s authority arises, W immediately reverts to her old roles. The emotional anxiety just takes over. This is an OCD trait too. W is very much a creature of habit, but I also believe part of the anxiety she feels is because she never learned, or was taught, how to handle daily life issues that many of us take for granted. She complains a lot about her inability to organize. I personally do not see any truth in this statement. I think she is as capable of organizing as anyone else, but never learned or paid attention to how others organize. She feels she has to create new ground to make a system to keep track of her stuff. But in reality, she is just not educated about organization, nor does she seem to appreciate the fact that organization takes and discipline to keep the system running. This just makes more stress for her and results in a lot of negative self talk. To handle this she copes with some OCD tendencies. So I am still trying to learn more how this issue.
BTW, apart from the incident with D13, last night was a peaceful night. I had asked W on Sunday night if we could have sex again. She did not answer but seemed to be thinking about it. I did not raise the subject again. Monday night was busy since her meeting that day was postponed to Tuesday. So she used the time to better prepare her papers. Last night she took D15 to the book store to get some school assigned books and got home after 9:00. She did some other chores and cleaned up. I copies some more classroom CDs for her and got in bed about 10:30. She came down to get ready for bed, then asked if I still wanted to have sex. I was pleasantly surprised since it would have been late enough for her to opt out any other time in the past. Afterwards I thanked her.
From a strictly professional standpoint I think your W needs to be re-evaluated with respect to the OCD, PTSD AND the ADD. Then, when a very good diagnostician gets a very clear view of what is going on appropriate intervention can be discussed. Frankly, you've got a lot of competing, half thoughts going on as to what is going on in her head. That isn't your fault. I don't think the professionals in your W's life have done her or you ANY favors. It is absolutely necessary that you both have a clear picture of what actual pathology is going on (versus normal anxiety, normal messiness etc...), what it means to your W's daily functioning and then get together a plan to tackle things. Your descriptions show a lack of understanding of her actual issues. You understand her FOO very well. What you don't understand is the very real, chronic pathology left behind. Until she is functioning on a more normal level you will continue to be fighting windmills. Please, please get a second or even third opinion. Investigate professionals in your area and get a really good review of any old records, tests, current functioning and get informed.
I echo Karens post to you. If your W truly has well...any of these issues you need a thorough understanding of exactly what you are dealing with. Even then....you might (just possibly) find that the things you are striving so hard for her to concede to with you, she doesn't have the ability to give. That's simply a very possible outcome for someone dealing with real pathology issues. Some people can overcome wonderfully, some overcome to a degree, some simply don't.
At the very least, researching....and having her evaluated by someone truly qualified couldn't hurt could it?
Thanks for the thoughts and I totally agree. Now the trick is how to bring this up. Things are just recently back on a stable footing, so I think it best to let this continue a little longer to give a sense of security to both of us before bringing up another potential source of conflict. If W will go back to the C, then I think the C could address this and leave it for W to look into with either her or someone else. At this point I do not know if W will go back. In the mean time, I will keeping looking into OCD.
you didnt say if she was self diagnosed, or by one of her therapists.
At any rate, regardless of the extent of her issues, focusing on requiring respect, and having boundaries that are solid and consistant is not going to make things worse.
No official diagnosis that I know of. Her med prescribing psychologist may have diagnosed her as OCD, but I don't know. Even if he did, he only meets with her and the kids for 10-15 minutes, then hands out a new prescription, so I wonder how good his diagnosis of anything is. I agree that strong boundaries will not make things worse, but it has been frustrating for me on those times when they don't seem to do any good either.
I know that it can seem in the moment that a boundary is not working. Very rarely are they instantaneouly respected, especially in the heat of an argument.
That doesnt mean you relinquish. You will see the positive response, the implicied (rarely verbal) acceptance after some time. Especially when you keep you cool while doing it. Your boundary will never be respected or acknowledged if you retract it or apologize for it.
The problem I see with there being no official diagnosis, the danger of self diagnosing is that it becomes self defeating. Its easier to chalk your behaviors up to some apparent patholgy however slight, then taking responsibility for self discipline and taking action. Your W grew up with no boundaries so its understandable.
Again Im not saying she doesnt have ABC,XYZ. If you can give yourself hope, then you empower yourself to take the actions you can, and trying, then being resigned to failure.
Once you know, then its time for acceptance of what is. Youve had years of nonboundaries and little respect. Give her and you some hope that things could be better.
Blackfoot is correct that with anyone with any form of pathology as well as with normal folks, well defined boundaries and structure are helpful. It is also helpful to notice and comment on positives.
Cobra, the one thing that isn't helpful is giving in to your own frustrations and name calling and the like. It is understandable but not helpful.
The reason I keep stressing getting your W looked at is that I think at least two of three of those diagnoses are dead wrong. Your descriptions lend themselves much more to some of the personality disorders or maybe the ADD and a personality disorder along with some Generalized Anxiety Disorder and/or Depression. Self diagnosis is a useless enterprise as is, off the cuff diagnosis from "professionals" whose major job is to see the kids. How to approach it? I would point out to her that she isn't happy or enjoying life, that she feels debilitated to some extent and that a good, cogent diagnosis and treatment plan might ease a whole lot of her anxiety.
