Thanks, RB. Guess I know that staying "dark" is about the only thing that might make WH miss "us" and realize what all he will be losing if we divorce, just hard because it feels so passive, and I so want something to change, soon !
Sorry to hear you are dealing with a similiar situation and would be glad to hear more of your details- maybe we can be good supporters for each other.
Had very little contact with WH last week- had some brief correspondence via email regarding a problem/question our our health insurance and that was it. Had a strange happening tonight- my cell phone rang and the number was one I did not recognize. I answered, and heard some background noise like people talking, then a female voice that said "Who is this ?" I just hung up, but then realized it was OW's voice. A few minutes later my phone rang again, but I didn't answer and no one left a message. I am guessing that OW must have either snooped in WH's phone or gotten into the phone bill/statements at his house and found my number, then called to see who it was- something she has done before as she is very insecure and paranoid ! (She even called WH's daughter's house last year, demanding to know who it was, because she'd found the number in WH's phone !) I feel irritated because while OW has called our house phone before, she never had my cell number and now she apparently does. I hope she won't start calling it (although I won't be answering any calls if I don't recognize the numbers) as my phone is on a "family plan" with WH, with him as the primary, and I don't think I can change my number. Also, until I get a new job (have been unemployed for 2 months after losing my job in July) I don't have the money to get my own phone/plan right now-
What do you think about opening a separate bank account?
If you can't remove your name entirely from your joint one due to household expenses being paid from it, if you have DD, you can at least stop that and open your own account and then deposit whatever you need to in the joint one to pay those bills.
If you don't have DD, just open a separate bank account on your own anyway.
I think it makes a statement, without being harmful to your goal.
Hi Slammed, so sorry you find yourself in this place in your life.
I have read your whole thread....whew. Mine was very long too.
I am very new to all this (you can read my sitch) so I don't feel too worthy of giving any advise but, the one thing I see very clearly in you that is so similar to me is "Obsession". I too find it almost impossible to stop focussing all my attention on "what is she thinking", "what is she doing", "how is she feeling", "why did she say that", "why did she do this or that", "is she with him right now", "how does she feel toward me", etc. It is unnending stream of useless, energy draining, defeating mental garble.
We can't stop them from acting the way they do, we can't stop them from making the choices they make and we certainly can't stop them from leaving us.
All this hurts immensely but, what can we do? We can practice the theories and principles in Michele's books. The primary goal is of course to affect our situation to the end that we save our marriage. But, the principles are leading us to focus on our "SELF". Get healthy, GAL like there's no tomorrow (because there isn't one), see the mental "STOP" sign when you find youself giving your life energy to trying to figure HIM out and refocuss on you.
You have been grossly mistreated for a long time and simply put the message you are sending to your H is that YOU do not believe you are worthy of being treated with dignity and respect. How will he ever be challenged to treat you any better.
Sorry for being blunt but this is the sense I get from you sitch, same as me and I keep telling myself this over and over.
Maybe you could record here some things that you could look into doing, people you could reconnect with to start really GALing.
Thanks, Amy - I did open a seperate bank account of my own last year, and have added some money to it whenever I've been able to, just to have some money of my own. Other than that, WH and I still have a joint checking, from which our joint bills/expenses are paid, as well as a joint savings. I've always handled our finances and taxes and continue to balance the accounts and pay the bills, while WH continues to contribute the larger part of the money for our joint bills and expenses.
I lost my job in July, but have continued to contribute some towards our joint stuff, using my unemployment money as well as some of my part of our tax refund. I'm looking hard for another job-
Thanks, Todd, for your reply. I will catch up with your thread as well. I understand and agree completely that it is very hard not to try to figure out the "why", "what", "where", and "when" of the situation ! I guess in my case, I want to find some "understanding" that makes some sort of sense to me, even though there really is NO "sense" of any of it. You're right- it makes it hard to focus on our own selves, changes we want to make in our lives, and anything but the pain and suffering we are going through, which is not a good, or healthy thing.
If WH feels I am just here "waiting", willing to take him back no matter what, or that it's okay to mistreat me, I really do want to change this attitude and image, just don't know what to do differently- let me know what ideas and thoughts you have and what has helped you show that you are a person with dignity and respect - and things we can do to challenge our spouses ???
Having lots of time on my hands right now (lost my job in July) has probably not helped in my sitch, as it leaves me with too much time to think, worry, and feel sorry for my- self and situation with WH, but I do try to do some job hunting, get a few things done around the house or yard, get out of the house on some errands or something, walk the dog, and keep in touch with friends and family each day. I belong to a community music group, and we begin rehearsals for the fall season tonight, so I'm looking forward to being with old friends and having that activity.
Have been trying to stay busy with job hunting, but wanted to post about something that happened earlier this week, just to vent, as well as get thoughts, ideas, support here.
As I had posted previously, WH and OW have been involved, "off and on" for about a year now, after initially meeting on the internet. There has been a lot of "drama" including lots of fighting and arguments between them, several "break ups and makeups", a pregnancy/abortion, WH moving in with her, out to his own place, back home, into his own house, her moving in with him, and more recently (end of July) OW moving out of his house, and them supposedly "breaking up".
Hoped that this last "break up" would really be the real deal, allowing us to work on rebuilding our marriage, and felt hopeful for a little while- we talked more, went out to lunch/dinner a few times, and I thought it a good sign that OW had moved 30 miles away, outside town. Wasn't long though, and I noticed WH starting to distance away again and I was sure the affair was back "on".
They have "broken up" several times, and from what I know about it, it appears that OW has always been the "breaker upper". They may go a few days without talking or seeing each other, but they always seem to keep some connection, and in a short time, WH is trying to get back with OW. Appears that she then places "conditions" and/or gives him an ultimatum of what he must do to "win" her back, and the affair resumes...
Guess she upped the "anty" on her conditions this last time, as a couple of weeks later, WH suprised me by showing up with divorce papers ! Told him I didn't want us to divorce, blah blah, and he told me his "usual" speel- that he didn't want to be married, just wants to be "alone and on his own". (same thing he's said ever since affair began). I left for vacation a couple of days later, so nothing else was said. Wh even called to wish me a nice trip, and called a couple of times while I was gone-(weird ?) Wasn't back a day though and he was calling, bugging about the papers, saying if I wouldn't sign, he'd go and file and have me served. Ignored him and didn't do anything for a few days. Next time he called, he was just friendly", nice, asked about my job hunt, our dog, etc. and no mention of the papers. Curious, I later checked the courts website, and was very heartbroken to see that he HAD filed, earlier than week on 8/29. Thought it was pretty cowardly that he didn't even say anything ! Tried to call him at work, and was told he was gone for the day, and realized he probably had gone away for the holiday weekend, and that was likely why he had called to "check in" beforehand ! Later than weekend, I got a call from WH's credit card company, checking on some unusual activity on his card, IN VEGAS ! , so I knew he was indeed on a trip, and surely was with OW. (Strangely enough, he did the same thing last year, same weekend, and I found out the same way, by his credit card co. calling !)
Since then, I've had little contact with WH. He called a few times week before last as he was ill, probably wanted a little "sympathy", and stopped by briefly to pick up some mail, and drop off receipts on the way to the Dr. Had a couple calls last week, just quick questions about our insurance and a bill that was due.
Then, heard from him on Sun. night. He started out friendly and "nice" then started pushing (again) about selling our house.(the one I live in) Hoped he'd at least wait to mention it again until I have a job ! Didn't reach any conclusions. He called again Monday, mentioned the house briefly, and asked if I wanted to send him my resume, in case he heard of any jobs. (?).
During the conversation either Sun. night or Mon., something came up about the fact that OW still calls here sometimes. (She called here constantly when WH moved back home - 13 times in one hour on one evening ! Also has called and left insults and obscenities towards me on the machine. Seems to call more often when they are fighting or she is paranoid about whether or not WH's talking to me. If I'm home, I never answer and she normally does not leave a message. Don't know if she calls trying to see if I'm here or might be out with WH, is trying to get "dirt" on him, or just wants to harass or insult me again !) I told WH that WH has called here, as recently as a couple of weeks ago, generally does not leave a message, but at times has done so, and seems to want to "taunt" me with info about them- what they are doing- that she is with my WH. He didn't really comment- don't know if he believes it even though he did know how much she called and hear some of her ugly messages when he lived at home.
Well, later on Mon. afternoon, I got home from errands and there was a message on our machine from OW ! It said : "Hi Slammed, this is OW. I hear that you say I call there all the time, so thought I'd give you a call. Why don't you pick up the phone, are you a F#$%ing chickensh*t ?? I know you're probably home since you can't hold down a job. You know that I don't call there, haven't told you jacksh&t about anything in our life so why don't you F$#*ing get a life, grow up and leave US alone. This is really F$#*ing starting to pis* me off ".
I was rather stunned, insulted, and steamed !! I don't know if it was a good idea or not, but I called WH. Said I guess he had obviously rushed right out and talked to OW after we talked. He asked "why?" I told him she had called and what she had said- told him I was very offended, that she had no right to call our house, that I was very hurt she knew I was not working or knew anything about me, him and our business, did not appreciate him talking to her about me or our life, and was sick of both of them being hurtful and disrespectful. He said he was very sorry- that he had told her I had said she called there, and she had told him that she never did (naturally). He wanted to know exactly what she said, and if I had saved the message (yes) Told me they rarely talked about "us", and that he didn't go around telling her about me or our business. Said he didn't want her doing stuff like that, and suggested I have her number blocked so she can't call. As we talked, I got an incoming call- from WH's home phone ! Knew he was calling from his cell, but I said "are you at home ?" He said "No, I'm in the car, just left work". I told him "Well, I have a call coming from your house right now- is OW at your house ?" He hesitated a minute, but then said "Yes, she could be, I kept her dogs over the weekend while she had to go out of town, and she is probably there picking them up". I said "Well, see, that's what I've been telling you". He again said he "was sorry", then said he needed to go- had arrived at the meeting he was going to.
Haven't had any calls since then, from either WH or OW. I'm sure if he even brought it up she would have totally denied it all again, and perhaps she convinced him I was the one lying (although he did know she called and heard some of her messages himself when he was back home). I thought it odd he suggested I block her number, but later realized he might just be doing that hoping that we don't end up talking- because there's a whole lot of truths that he wouldn't want OW to hear from me ! Also, I think he realizes OW would do whatever she wants- he once even said there was no point in telling her anything. Any thoughts on what this was about ?? Good or bad that I told him ? Continue to avoid any contact with OW ?
Another question- Event though I've really tried to reduce contact with WH, I've really noticed that he has sure seemed to be distancing himself from me. He has not been calling like he used to, hasn't asked me for the ocassional lunch/dinner (last time was right before he did the paperwork), and the only times I've heard from him have been quick calls or emails about financial matters.Hasn't even asked about our dog anymore, which used to be one of his main "reasons" for calling ! I'm wondering if he has finally gotten tired of his own ambivalence and going "back and forth" , decided he was "okay" living alone, and made a firm decision to D, so is really trying to "detach" from me now ??? Or, could it be that he has to be on his "best behavior" due to OW's ultimatum- perhaps she threatened to move away if he didn't get the divorce, cut all contact with me ???
This is making me feel scared- making me feel like he really is cutting "all ties" with me, for whatever reason, and I feel like nothing is going to stop the affair and we'll end up running out of time, and divorced. Any idea of anything I can do ? Stay as dark as possible and hope he misses me, us, "real life" ?? All thoughts appreciated ! Slammed
Yes, staying dark does seem to get their interest. You see, right now, you're basically reacting to everything he does. Change channels, change the show, alter the landscape and then he'll be reacting.
It's actually a good feeling when you're being proactive--it really does throw them off their game plan.
It really hurts, but WAS's really do tell their lovers everything--and I mean everything. Forget about them keeping your secrets or private life confidential--it's not going to happen. It's a very unpleasant form of violation of trust, but hey, he's already violated the most important form of trust in any R.
All the awful things go hand in hand: lying, cheating, sneaking around; blabbing about private, confidential, and even intimate details--all part of the slime package that goes with their territory.
Do something different--if you haven't gone totally dark yet, your question as to whether you should try might be the best path right now. After all, the other things you're trying aren't working.
All the best, and I honestly know exactly how awful you feel right now, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, not even my STBX!!
Thanks Free-to-Be, I know you're right, in that I have to not react to WH. I would so like to be able to understand and have some of this whole thing make some kind of "sense" to me, even when I know that there is no logic or sense behind a wayward spouse ! Probably shouldn't have gotten so upset and called to let WH know about OW continuing to call here last week- I was just so tired of "not" reacting, and them both just doing whatever they want without a thought to me or my feelings. Guess a part of me hoped he would see what an inmature, unbalanced, slimey person he'd involved with, for her to call and leave insults and lies on his wife's phone !
I do think WH seemed sincerely suprised that OW was still calling here. He knew about her calling constantly back when he moved home and we had a brief "false" recovery earlier in the year- even heard some of her foul-mouthed, poor grammar, trashy messages for himself, and told me to "consider the source" when I asked why she would do such a thing !! Her calling seems to directly related to she and WH fighting, although I've never figured out if she calls here trying to figure out if he's here with me (she's very paranoid), if she's trying to just "bait me" to talk to her so she can get in some more insults and obscenities, or if she is trying to get more "dirt" on WH to use against him when she's mad- doesn't make much sense ?????
I think it's odd that WH told me to block her number so she couldn't call here- but then realized he probably REALLY doesn't want us talking- OW might found out more things he has lied about. He may not have even said anything to her about it- after all he told me before that she still did "whatever she wants".
Don't know if my telling him about it has anything to do with it or not, but I've not heard anything from WH for a week now. It's the longest he's ever gone without contacting me, and I feel very "mixed" about it- on one hand it's a relief that I don't have to try to think of how to act, or what to say, and on the other hand it scares me because it makes me feel like he's so detached he doesn't think or care for us at all. ????
Tomorrow will be the second year I've celebrated a birthday without WH, and I feel very sad about it. Don't know if he will remember at all, or do anything, and am trying to plan that he won't hoping I'd feel less disappointed, but I know it will still hurt. Last year, I didn't hear from him at all and thought he'd forgotten, but got home from work and he'd left roses and a card at the house !
Awhile after I posted yesterday, WH did call- he sounded awful, said he had been sick since end of last week, and besides telling me about that (and probably wanting some "sympathy") he wanted to make sure there was enough in the checking account to cover checks clearing now, as he had not felt well enough to go to the bank. We talked briefly, but it was pleasant, friendly, even some laughs as he told me about his new dog chewing up a new shoe. Realized afterwards how much better I felt, how much anxiety had been lifted, and at least a tiny bit of hope that there might still be some hope.
Today, I woke up hoping for a good day- got some things done around the house, worked on job hunting, and then went for a manicure- my bday "treat" for myself. Wondered if WH would remember it was my birthday, was trying not to count on anything considering both our current circumstances and that he was also sick, and may have totally forgotten. Got home, and was getting ready to go out to dinner with friends when WH called. He said "Happy Birthday", and I thanked him. Then he said "he wanted to remind me about the meeting tomorrow", to which I said "what meeting ?" Found out the initial meeting with a court "facilitator" is scheduled for tomorrow morning, and he just now told me about it today ! Told him it was first he'd said about it, and at first he argued, trying to say he'd told me several times before, but then he backed off that, and I think what really happened was that he had not realized the date until just today, himself, but didn't want to admit that. I knew he had filed the initial paperwork at end of Aug. but we'd talked several times since then, still been friendly, and I hoped that he would change his mind and not proceed (he did same thing last year, but never went any further than the initial paperwork and the whole thing expired this past April). This time, however, he seems completely determined to do this and seems to have no doubt or regrets. Won't talk about it other than to repeatedly say "he doesn't want to be married", or "he wants to move on". Won't admit that his continuing affair is the reason. He seems to have put up a "wall" totally blocking any feelings, any sentimentalism, any thoughts of us at all, as though our many years together never even existed. I asked if he ever thought about all our good times, special memories, families, hard times we got through and all he would say was "doesn't think about it". Asked if he'd at least acknowledge that he did love me and we did have a happy marriage, even if he didn't feel that way right now, and all he'd say was "doesn't matter". I said it DID matter to me, so then, as if just to get me off the phone, he said "it did matter to him once, but didn't anymore". I also said "didn't he at least feel sorry, feel regret that things had ended up this way ?" His answer: "that's life". I am usually pretty good with words and can think "on my feet", but even I was at a total loss of words- just came up totally blank and didn't know anything else I could say. H was like a total stranger, cold and alien, and didn't seem to care a bit that he has destroyed me, our family, and our life.
Have cried for a long time tonight, just feeling like there is no hope left, and nothing more I can do. I truly loved my H, always tried to be supportive, helpful and kind, and put up with a lot; including his numerous job changes, some legal problems, family issues, financial ups and downs, his having depression/bipolar disorder, and most recently, his affair. Through it all I still loved him, believed in him, and believed in US. Was willing to forgive, admit and work on my own shortcomings too, and build a new, better marriage and have a "fresh start".
Called my counselor to see if I could get an appointment before my scheduled one next week- and fortunately got to talk to her a few minutes tonight. She's also got an open appointment tomorrow, so it'll help knowing I will see her then. In the meantime though, I've got to try to get some sleep before I have to go to this court meeting tomorrow, then have to try to get myself together enough for a job interview.
Just don't know how to even begin to deal with the loss of my husband. He, and our marriage were the most important things in the world to me, and I just feel lost and empty without them. Probably sounds silly when we've been living apart many months now, but I still felt a little bit of a connection and closeness to him, and still felt some "hope" which kept me going. I guess I still felt like "my" H was still in there, even as "alien" and affair-fogged as he's been, and that love, patience and faith would "win out" eventually. Instead, I guess he's chosen that he'd give it all up for a trashy, manipulative and controlling OW. Makes me feel lower than dirt to be "dumped" for that sleazy psycho. Know it's not really about "her", but she's been so nasty to me and made this a competition for my H. Have to hand it to her though, she's got him acting like a "puppet on her string".
I asked my counselor why WH would have to be so nasty to me, yell, have a temper tantrum and act so uncaring when he knows how upset, hurt and distraught I am about this. She can't be sure, but said it may be his own guilt, his way of blocking out all his own feelings if he does feel unsure, regrets or remorse, or his anger at what may be a lot of pressure to do this from OW. Know way to ever know for sure, but it would help me if I could just understand. I felt bad enough when I broke up with a boyfriend years ago, and always tried to be as sensitive and kind about it as I could, so I just don't understand acting like that.
Know I'm just venting here, and I'm sorry. I am at the feeling "numb" stage now, knowing today was one of the worst days of my life, and the worst birthday I could ever have. Tomorrow is sure to be right "up" there too, with having to go to this meeting. Prayers for me please. Slammed
As I was saying on someone else's thread it is frightening how similiar our situations are. I can take some things right out of your sitch except the OW has never called me but I can always sense when the manipulations and ultimatums come because H moves back home and then pulls more toward being with her once they reconcile. And Ow talks about how he calls constantly until she acquiesec to take him back.
OW feels she does not have to call me since he has left me to be with her. (they live together but he thinks that I don't know).
Count your blessings that you don't have children. I have a S3 and it has been hell on him. I'm like you in that I have mucho contact with H (because of S3) and In fact we share a vehicle and although the affair has been going on since Mar 04 and he moved out Aug 04 we have only stopped being intimate in the last two months.
He has also been pressing me to file for D because he has no grounds but I say if you want a D you file. Since the last incident two weeks ago, H has been very distant. Just try not to get sucked into the rollecoaster although it is easier said than done.
