Quote: Having a window into the life of Atticus Finch there were a lot of admirable traits from the directed POV. I wonder how many women who have read the book felt -weak behind the knees hot desire-- for him though....
Not from the book or the character, per se, but from Gregory Peck playing the character in the movie. Kind of the flip side (at least for me) of Johnny Depp - it's Johnny Depp as Captain Jack Sparrow after whom I lust.
kindness is an effective survival strategy (inspiring mutual support) and philanthropy is a demonstration of fitness
Like I briefly said to Cobra, its the intent, your reason for the action that can make a philanthropic action appear magnanimous and confident, or come across as supplicating. Two different men could do the exact same thing, but how it is received from the W POV will be completely different.
When you deny your deep truth to please your woman...your own sense of authenticity will burden your capacity to act with clarity. Your actions won't jibe with your core.
This is brilliant. In one fell swoop he describes how to remove placating, and what incongruence looks like. Wow.
The man has to define his integrity for himself and the woman will respect it even if his living that integrity causes her discomfort.
Well said.
Cine I do get your drift, on all points. I am picking at semantics, (and throughly enjoying this repartee with you) becasue I think the guys here already have 'good intentions'. What you see in your head, and what they see in thiers upon reading your words are pretty different I suspect.
In fact , most of my reply to your post can be summed up in Gmary's post....LOL .
it's Johnny Depp as Captain Jack Sparrow after whom I lust.
That is priceless. I know its true, but its despite the fact his personal definition of 'integrity' had nothing to do with your definition of morally correct. Because afterall if moral correctness was a desire inducing behavior, many of us wouldnt be on this BB. Haha..ahhh... ...I guess its not funny...
So Im going to work with semantics some more.
and for a common frame of reference I guess we can all think of Captain Jack Sparrow.
A man who is not willing to see others POV and give credence to others good ideas is just stubborn. Stubborness is not sexy.
True. But Determination, passion, drive to reach your goals is. A man swayed from his path with a little resistance is not attractive.
Using Cobra as an example. Is he stubbornly not listening to the ladies or is he determined to have a M where he has a voice, is acknowledged and gets his needs taken care too ---to the best of his ability? He is no quitter, despite the daunting obstacles.
A good leader does not continue to lead in a direction that is destructive to the people he is leading, no matter how dedicated he is to that particular path
The concern is not being a 'good' leader. Its being an EFFECTIVE leader, no matter your particular path. If your not effective, your moral pureness and virtue of thought is irrelevant. Mother Teresa was a 'good' person. She does not instill desire in me.
What kind of a woman is sexually aroused by a man who uses his intellect to make feeble minded people feel stupid? Better to use your grand IQ to illuminate the way for those with lesser intellectual capacity
I assume this is directed at me in regards to my comment on being non gentle and unamiable? I was a bit obtuse, from the way you worded your reply, thats not what I was talking about. evenso, in regards to your question... females are attracted to dominant males. period.
We all develop filters on how we choose to see certain activities, a lot of times women 'chose' to see certain attractive behaviors as being 'bad' in a man or for a husband, because they have been burned by it in the past... regardless, it still affects them. They just mask it or try.
I do the same in regards to Women, I have filters that tell me when a visually attractive women is not healthy...
Back to your question. What kind of a woman is sexually aroused by a man who uses his intellect to make feeble minded people feel stupid? When worded that way, well of course thats not attractive. However, comics do this all the time is some fashion, dont they?
Am extreme example is Eddy Murphy and Dave Chappelle insulting each other in 'The Klumps'
Even though its effective thats not what I was talking about, either. I would choose to not be attracted to a woman who that was effective on no matter her looks. I was talking about when a drunk guy starts pulling on a womans clothes or acting aggressive with another man and asserting himself past certain limits. When I demonstrate my greater kinetic intelligence (from training and more importantly experience) after he refuses to use common sense and respond to my respectful requests that he cease, and encroaches on not just my boundaries, but the social group I am responsible for protecting, and creates a situation where someone has to be dominant, its very powerful. Im not making them feel stupid, they are demonstrating their stupidity with the lack of social intelligence, lack of kinetic intelligence, and commen sense that says you dont fight with people paid and willing to take the job.
Im not trying to 'get' a reaction, or demean others, (cant we all just get along? ) like your question implies in the wording. I get a reaction after being forced to take a position of leadership and power.
There is plenty of ways to do all the above, without engaging in risky activities. This one just happens to be very visceral, and what gave me many awarenesses.
Some of those awarnesses were that strenth and power even in this 'violent' way were attractive. Some women were direct about it, even gleeful, despite the fact that I would be troubled- even aghast at what I had to do to contain the situation. The gleefulness always disturbed me. I dont like 'violence'. Id prefer there was no fighting, but I enjoy being the peacemaker. Its confusing. I just accept that for me, being a man, assertive feels good.
Then there were the females that would be verbally critical, and equally aghast, but the body language was unmistakable-- if you accept that words are not always truth.
And this is the point of the story. When your W gives you words that are contrary to what you know is attractive behavior, nod- smile- agree. And keep doing what is attractive. Its not necessary to talk her out of her belief, for her to appreciate your actions.
When your LDW fights and 'tests' you, she is IMO forcing you to take a position of power and leadership to change the status quo. Doing it with confidance and decisiveness, or insecurity and fear and anger, is going to make all the difference in the world.
All these traits and behaviors can be demonstrated without being a 'bad boy'. Even if Captain Jack Sparrow, is the penultimate lust inspiring 'bad boy'. He shows some very specific attractive behaviors other then integrity (selfishness), effective (not good) leadership, confidance, that work even when used in a quirky and 'gay' fashion. I was nearly overwhelmed myself. lol
Please critique the following interaction I am planning with the W soon. NOTE: W's responses are anticipated and may not turn out this way. I'm just posting them here as a means to discuss reactions and whether they fit with the alpha model described here, or are too controlling, or whatever.
Me: Hey, you won't believe what a great deal I got on those NYC plane tickets today. REALLY CHEAP!!!! W: WHAT?!?!? I thought we had discussed that I wasn't sure I wanted to go to NYC. (she starts listing her reasons) (I grab her and kiss her to stop her protest) Me: Knock it off woman, the tickets are already paid for. And how in the world am I going to give you your Xmas present, which is IN NYC, if we don't GO to NYC. (I smirk at her and walk off)
Let me have it!!!!!
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Have you read Deida? You listen to your W words to much. JMHO.
Do you know that a people who dont want to want actively prevent others from generating warm fuzzies, by ... I hate to say lying... dissembling? If you tell someone you dont want (xyz), then they would only do it because 'they really wanted tooo....' or some such thought process along those lines. Of course if they dont like chocolate, then maybe carrot cake, or whatever ...that shows attention to detail.
Chromo, Thats way to much responsibility for us. Do you and your W have any agreements about limits on spending money without approval? Is the trip absoulutely not a financial burden?
Yes its very alpha, if its not immature (financially unsound) or disrespectful (previous agreement buster).
Quote: Me: Hey, you won't believe what a great deal I got on those NYC plane tickets today. REALLY CHEAP!!!! W: WHAT?!?!? I thought we had discussed that I wasn't sure I wanted to go to NYC. (she starts listing her reasons) (I grab her and kiss her to stop her protest) Me: Knock it off woman, the tickets are already paid for. And how in the world am I going to give you your Xmas present, which is IN NYC, if we don't GO to NYC. (I smirk at her and walk off)
Let me have it!!!!!
Okay.
I think we are confusing a juvenile highschool level idea of what "alpha-ness" is and are trying to institute it into relationships that are already shot to hell with lack of intimacy.
We seem to be confusing immature pushiness with manly assertiveness.
Given your existing situation, where trust is broken and has not been repaired, intimacy as you are wanting to promote above is a forced intimacy and doomed to fail.
Smirks are right out.
Have you stopped all contact with the other woman? What is your current daily plan for rebuilding trust with your wife? Because trust isn't built on big one-time occurances.
I'm not trying to piss in your wheaties, but I strongly believe you are putting the cart before the horse. Advice given based on false information is wasted advice and can do more harm than good.
I absolutely echo your post. Chrome...I don't know where you and your W stand at this point on honesty. However, if you haven't yet been honest with her about the OW, and the EA you began here.....then this trip, is absolutely putting the cart before the horse.
It seems to me that you are trying to build something on something that still has a foundation of lies beneath it. Am I wrong? Have you already told your W what has transpired and I missed that post?
If you haven't then whatever you hope to achieve by this trip is likely to have to be rebuilt (if possible) once you do come clean.
As MrsNOP's said I'm also not trying to piss in your wheaties, but I am trying to keep you on track as far as priorities go.
NOP has turned heads and female loins from his teen years. I have been with him in public, shopping for carpet and watched as the salesgirl came sexually unglued while I was standing right there. There have been numerous female "hits" on him when he is out in public. So, there's never been any doubt in my mind about his impact on the female gender.
But, alpha-maleness did not keep our relationship from turning to poop. It did not make uncontrollable desire well up in me.
What has finally awakened my sexual desire is that alpha maleness surrounded by the intimacy of our relationship.
Some of what is being labled "alpha" undeniably works well in the dating or prowling scene, when women are looking for bad boys to tickle their fancy.
It will fail miserably in a longterm relationship, where there is little trust and/or intimacy and things are just broken.
Chrome sounds like a Deida script that could go either way. If your being yourself it should be no problem. If on the other hand your just acting the part it could go sideways, and come off differently than planned.
I think that alot of guys when they think of this alpha male stuff think of these big dramatic actions that will prove in one giant action that they have control and that their wives will melt into glorious submission. The problem that I see is that if you are doing things focused on the atraction that your actions will cause, you will be suplicating. Reacting to her level of interest and making changes in your behavior to gain her aproval is placing her sexual atraction up on a pedastal very un "aplha".
I do beleive that you should have a say in your life and that you should go after what you want out of life. If you want to become this "alpha" guy start with small compliances "honey will you bring me a towel?" or " I would love if you would wear this ". These can be seen as "bids" if you like for her favor if compliance is too strong of a word. You know what they say about boiling a frog (prince or princess).
Thanks for your thoughts. Some of the things that Corri said to me were starting to click in my head about how my attempts to be assertive and "manly" were probably backfiring on me and undermining intimacy. I apparently still have a lot to learn about how to be assertive ... I guess my attempts are more "omega" male, that is percieved as just trying to be assertive.
So, rebuilding intimacy one day at a time in, big trips out. I guess I just wanted to make sure that if I backed out of the idea (which I actually haven't brought up in awhile) that it wouldn't be percieved as "beta" male, i.e. not insisting on what I want, always just doing what I think will make her happy. As you can all see, I still think about things WAY too much.
BF, to answer your question, it is perfectly sound financially, and there never was an absolute NO given by the W to the idea. But as I stated earlier, I'm going to just drop it and not mention it again ... for awhile (years maybe).
As far as the EA is concerned, I have made a decision in my life to move forward. I am focusing on what IS and what CAN BE, rather than what WAS. Therefore I am choosing not to give any thought to OW or the EA. WITH the exception of my C, MC, and my W as needed in our healing process. If my W wants to know something, or if the MC wants to discuss it, I will talk. Outside of that I am no longer spending ANY emotional/mental energy on OW, and that includes here on this board. I hope none of you view that as a rejection of your offers of help/advice, but as HD (I think) mentioned, in this area I need professional help, so that is the route I am taking. BF told me something awhile ago that aided me in this decision. A big part of our reality is in how we percieve it, in what we choose to focus on. When I talk about OW, invarialby the feelings and memories resurface. So I choose not to think about her anymore (again with the above caveat). Maybe this is not the right way to do it, but it is how I am choosing to do it now (and my C agrees with this methodology).
That being said, my propensity to enter into an EA as it relates to my FOO I will still discuss because I think I can learn some valuable lessons from people here (esp Cobra), and because that is forward-looking in the sense that I don't want it to happen again. I still feel that slight pull when, as MrsNOPs describes with NOPkins, I see the obvious responses by females around me. So it is something I want to fix, and feel I can get help for here.
I would disagree (perhaps pickily) with one statement, that our intimacy is now shattered and broken. We have never had intimacy. That is not to say we never loved each other, just that we never let down our walls and let the other in to the degree that is necessary for a healthy relationship. Privacy of thoughts and feelings have always been a part of our M. So this is not a question of picking up the pieces and trying to put them back together, it is a question of building something new. Maybe that is good thing.
That being said MrsNOPs (and others), specific ideas on how to rebuild intimacy one day at a time are VERY welcome. For example, I have been making an effort to be home earlier every day, be home more weekends, and not spend as much time on the computer while I am at home (another reason for not posting here much recently). I go to bed with her every night, even if I have work to do (so what if the students get pissy with me b/c I don't have their quiz graded yet). And I have made it clear that I want to be a part of and help with every decision about remodeling our new home. I figure that being there every step of the way for our home, the home we intend to live in for the rest of our lives, is an important statement about my intention to stay with her and be a partner with her.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
, most of my reply to your post can be summed up in Gmary's post....LOL 
.
...I guess its not funny... 
) like your question implies in the wording. I get a reaction after being forced to take a position of leadership and power.