(((((((DEB))))) So sorry to hear about your current sitch. I can imagine the intense feelings and emotions that is running through you know. "TALKING" now with H would be tainted with your emotions rather than your head. As our fellow DBers had advised, it would be good to be calm and have a clear head. I think a overnighter would help... You have given me a lot of hope and advice during the dark hours of my sitch, and I have to say that it did make a difference to me and my DBing efforts, and I am now going towards piecing my M together. I want to be here to lend you my support at this difficult time. Will be here to listen to you...
Hi there, Fizzle - So sorry I was out of town and missed the start of this.
I agree, not going to the hospital with you and son and staying home to call oW would be the straw that pushed me over the edge.
Is this current contact with OW just a final revisit or an attempt to self-medicate his depression? Who knows. What I DO think is that the time for patient waiting is done. He needs to feel what it is like to lose his family before he's ever going to deal with his issues.
You know, don't you, that this really isn't about your weight or your imperfections? Most likely, right now, it's about the loss of attention. You (quite rightly) had to switch your attention to son and his diabetes, (and before that had your daughter and SIL there) and H is so needy that he has to get that attention somewhere, so he gets it from her.
I wouldn't move out of the house - he's the cheater, make him move. Why should your son have to give up his bedroom? Pack H's bags, drop them at his office one day, and tell him he's not welcome at home.
I'm not saying your prior approach with him was wrong, I think it worked quite well, but I don't think it's the way to go now. And honestly, don't you think you could use the rest from all this you would get if he was out of the house? Wouldn't it be nice to only have to worry about yourself and S for a while?
I know money is a big issue - so go to an attorney and find out exactly where you would stand. Think creatively about ways you could increase your income of lower your expenses if H was gone (get a boarder? Create a part-time business of some sort on evenings/weekends? Maybe babysit other diabetic kids on weekends their parents need to go away? Ask for a raise at work? Consider moving to another company for a higher salary?).
What I WOULDN'T do is let him stay in the home unless he meets ALL your conditions, which MUST include getting trwatment for his depression, and getting tested for hypothyroidism (btw, have you been tested yet?).
You know, OW is like a drug. He's like a heroin user, he's back to using but doesn't want to lose his family, so he's hiding it.
I've been trying to log in all afternoon, I seem to be having a terrible time all of a sudden, the site won't let me on... I don't have much time, have to run to a meeting, but I sure appreciate all your support. it was a rough weekend. will try to update in a minute. but.... Ellie, you said:
Quote: You know, don't you, that this really isn't about your weight or your imperfections? Most likely, right now, it's about the loss of attention. You (quite rightly) had to switch your attention to son and his diabetes, (and before that had your daughter and SIL there) and H is so needy that he has to get that attention somewhere, so he gets it from her.
yes, finally, I do realize this. that's one of the reasons it was a rough weekend, I quit "validating" and told him those are all justifications for his behavior...that it will always be something with him at this point, that he will have to decide if he's "in" or "out" because I can't live the rest of my life being jerked around by some little whim that doesnt go right in his life.
Where I'll go from here, or what I'll do, I don't know, I'm kind of treading water at the moment. I spoke to an att. a little over a yr ago, and at that time what I was told was that in KS, everything is split down the middle...50/50... the most that I could get in my favor would be the judge to rule "no contact" for S with the w---e. In discussion this weekend, h said he wouldnt file for residential custody, but only for "joint"...commented "there's no reason not"...however, I'm not so sure about that....I don't know what a judge would say about the choice to call the wh--e rather than help me get critically ill S to the hospital. and I have it in black and white, the phone bill with the times of the phone calls, the hospital admission logs and med records would be indisputable. Plus, my understanding is that emotional stress can potentially trigger type 1 diabetes.
so, update: (sorry, long, from an email conversation i've been having with a friend today): Thursday nite, I was not very calm, lost it a lot...after all this time you'd think I could manage to stay calm...I got the same old story about it being all my fault for everything...too fat, didnt work out enough, too much debt (which he swears he didnt know about, which is not true....)too controlling, just like his mother...interfering in his life....
I should have just listened, but didnt....reminded him of times i've asked for his help, etc....of course he would hear none of it.
Everybody in his life is controlling, always have been, he's 51 years old and nobody is gonna tell him what to do anymore, the kids living with us caused all the problems to come up again; "it" (A) didnt end naturally, she pressured him to choose, so he chose me, and now it's not entirely over...WTF?????? I havent cleaned the house enough (it is a mess, but if mr. wonderful would lift a finger it would help. he actually had the nerve to tell me the clean dishes needed to be unloaded from the dishwasher. I did manage to respond "yes, I'm sure they do" and drop the subject. at one point when I went in the door from the back yard, he was still outside...he had the nerve to tell me "close that" like I was going to leave it open.
I asked him what he thought would happen with all the phone calls (which I'm sure have been going since april, at least) and he said "that you would mind your own business and stay out of it and it would die down and be over and you would never know" said he called her because he felt guilty about all the animosity at work, he missed her, and now they were "friends"...he said "you can't just leave it behind and go on when you work at the same place"
...I went ballistic when I heard that, screamed "you can't be friends, NO CONTACT, you will be back down there soon if you arent already, and you know it"...told him it HAS TO END and I have to know and be able to trust that it has. he grumped that I would never trust him...told him he could help me and gave suggestions as to how.
later he admitted "you're right, I would have been seeing her again"...
I told him I am willing to do what it takes to work on us, but he HAS to let her go...asked him why when he tells her "leave me and my family alone" he can't make it stick, he said "that's a good question"...never did answer....
so basically, I told him I need to know what he's going to do, he can commit to working on us and get rid of her, or he can chose not to and have her (at one point I was screaming he could have his whore and he kept saying "that's not what I want" and I kept yelling back "it's what you chose, so enjoy!)
At one point he said "I want us to work out, I want us to be a couple....said he wants me to hike with him (I hate that, always will even if I can get skinny)...I asked how far, he said "as far as I want to go"...at one point was bawling that he would have to give up all his dreams because of the debt...he would never be able to live in our vacation town*...said he thought "maybe some of it is mid-life stuff"...told me if I kept pushing and pressuring I would push him away.
at one point I was almost asleep, caught myself whining "don't leave" and he mumbled back "I won't", but who knows. the final "deal" is that he has until the whore comes back from vacation to let me know if he is going to tell her to move on or not. His lower back is hurting, that's my fault also, because of all the stress and tension. The whore never calls names in an argument, he has to give her credit for that, he said (guess being called a sleazy slimy bastard really bothered him)...
When we went out to eat with the kids, I swear he was grumpy most of the time, the thought occured to me that he wouldnt be so grumpy if he was keeping the wh--e, but who knows. I hardly had a good-bye from him this morning.
I have managed to calm down, since Saturday AM,for the most part, we slept most of the morning we were so exhausted, and then went to the party. I didnt say a word about it yesterday at all.
have gotten back on the treadmill, restarted Atkins...need to do it for me, I never should have let myself get so off track. I'd noticed the wh--e has lost weight, she flaunts it....
Of course, he doesnt believe me about the little display she put on for my benefit at the staff meeting...just cant' believe she'd do that.
I did try to call for a consult w/an attorney, re financial info.. H did got upset when I said I'd called for an att. appt., thought I meant for D....never heard back from the att.,
*I cant imagine wanting to live in the tourist trap anyway.
This past weekend was S's 14th bday...thus the family party and going out to eat with the kids....
oh yeah, at one point in the yelling, I said I didnt think it was unrealistic to expect someone I was married to not be involved with some one else...he said "no it's not, I think you should have that expectation"...admitted the calling, etc., was hurtful behavior...
he said that she refuses to get back into the "affair" but is always telling him to "come back"; said "she deserves better"...to which I screamed "so do I"...he agreed.
At one point I yelled that I was gonna get surgery and have my own escapade with find "somebody new" he got really mad, going on about how he doesnt want a "wh--e"...I yelled back that "what's good for the goose is good for the gander"....
I told him it wasnt so much the sex as the lying and sneaking and looking me in the eye and lying through his teeth that absolutely makes me wild.
He also made a comment of what a change it would be to go with her, said "She makes it very clear she expects me to take care of her, and you take care of me"...
one telling thing...Saturday he brought in the billing statement for the car insurance, had opened it and said "it looks like we need to pay this"...I said "no I've paid it", looked at the date, and saw it is due 8/11...said "yes, it's just the current statement"...we just need to make the usual payment of $112...his eyes got big, and he said "you mean a month?!....I told him yes, it used to be over 200 (true)...he doesnt even know what the car insurance costs.
And so it goes. I have such a hard time steeling myself for this....I wish to heck I didnt still love him. guess that says it all.
I was thinking while I was driving back from a meeting, I said over the weekend i didnt want the house, that I would leave town to get a new start. but....I'm not sure what I want to do, actually. I might want the house if his sorry behind was out of it. Although s would be so upset either way, I really do worry about what all the upheaval would to his diabetes control. Any thoughts, Ellie? that poor kids been through so much. Honestly, the best thing for him would probably be for me to close a blind eye and keep on keeping on.
the thought of hauling his stuff to his office is really mind boggling. I can't imagine what he would do. big question is, he has 28 years worth of "stuff"...it would be no smaller a task than moving a mountain to move it all. what would I move????
can I do that legally? can I have the locks changed in a hurry? dunno, dunno, dunno.
what strikes me again though is those darn weird vibes. no matter how much I try to stuff them down when they hit, there is a certain type of them that I can't describe, they are just "knowing" in some way...and I hate it.
Just not sure how to proceed...I dont suppose he's gonna snap out of it this time, and she sure as heck isnt giving up unless he tells her to.
I just had a thought...I bet she put the damned stuffed dog in her car window just about the time he started calling her. the woman will stop at nothing to get on my nerves. unfortunately, it works.
Sorry you are still going thru this....that being said, it appears that after 3 years the behavior of your DH, nothin' is gonna change unless YOU change. He seems to know that good ole Deb will always be there while I sow my wild oats with Monster...
As hard as it might be on you and your DS at first, enough is enough, IMHO, of course. I believe you have been patient enough. The sitch has been status quo too long. Deb - you are worth more that this. He doesn't respect your marriage, bucause YOU don't. You continue to allow him to live with you, and have an EA/PA with her, without any consequences what-so-ever. DB'ing can only get you so far...3 years later, time to make a change.
As far as your DS goes....imagine the example you are setting for him to see you allow his father to treat you in such a manner....yes, separation would be hard on him, but so is what he is witnessing now.
Deb, I just think someone needs to tell you from the outside looking in, that YOU NEED TO STAND UP TO THIS MAN AND STAND UP FOR YOURSELF. It's what Michelle calls "SETTING Boundaries". I think the reason you sound so down on yourself sometimes is that you know deep down that you are allowing this situation to go on and on and on....
We love you here and know that you don't deserve this...nobody does.
Well, I was just reading a financial article in the paper that said most women in divorce make the mistake of trying to keep the family home even if they can't afford it. I was thinking more about the short-term, however - let the upheaval of relocating during any short-term separation be HIS problem, not yours and your son's.
Frankly, I think your H just thought he could continue medicating his depression by talking to her. She sure must be something slimy, eh?
My gut feeling is this, Fizz - you need to start standing up for what YOU deserve. Not in an angry/sad, "why can't you behave" way, but in a calm, rational, detached "I'm a loving and faithful wife and I deserve better from you. If you're not capable of better, then I will move on and find better in my life. If you ARE capable then it would look like this: marriage counseling antidepressant therapy financial counseling
Hi CupCake and Ellie, Everything in my life feels like such a mess and so out of control. I am struggling with so much right now, from my point of view. that said, I had a flash of inspiration, or something, that I could afford the house, etc, on my own....if I could get rid of the car payments...not sure how that would work, but I do know that h would have to pay something for child support. I honestly can't see how we can support two separate residences with our finances intertwined, not sure if that makes sense. I do worry about what the stress will do to S...I am not clear about how it effects diabetes, but I know it isn't good. I do have an appt thurs. am w/the financial counselor I talked to a few months ago...to reevaluate "stuff"...don't know.... I am not sure what I'm watching here with H, if its the ending of our M, or if he's wrestling with "stuff" or if he's chosen to be "in it" and pouting or what.... Yesterday was S's actual BDay, so we had the older kids over for cake & ice cream. H came in the door from work cussing because he dropped a tupperware container from his lunch....oh joy. of course in all fairness, the ac in his vehicle had given out on the way home (probably going to be a huge expense, i suppose) I had dinner nearly ready, he didnt want to eat, wanted to do chores and then work out...ok...I told him no problem. all this takes about 1.5 hours. I did a bit of straighteningthen went to do the treadmill...H was down there lifting, after I'd been on the treadmill for about 1/4 the time, he said "I quit I'm done" (early) and left, went upstairs and ate without me. When the kids came, we watched some tv comedy after the cake and ice cream, and everyone laughed. When we went to bed he was distant, I thought. This morning, hard to describe, kinda lukewarm....gave me a hug before going to work, but left with an ILY for the first time in years. I didnt say it either. I'll bet dollars to donuts he'd say it's because I didnt say it.
I dunno, I realize it's useless to try to predict but I still wonder if I'm watching the death or he's pouting about getting back in, or debating about what to. any guesses?????
Oh yeah, I don't think I posted, but when I was so upset over the weekend, he commented that part of the reason for the A was that "you've only been nice for a little while in your life"...I've thought about that a lot, and I really don't believe it's true. I've always been a considerate person, in fact I think I'm probably usually nice to a fault. We had an angry, go-nowhere discussion that I was down and depressed for years as well...and i was. I so distinctly remember when D was a baby....wishing H would help...be a partner...he claims he did...I bought a book by James Dobson, what wives wish husbands knew, or something like that, and asked him to read it. The walls still vibrate from the fit he threw. never went down that tunnel again. He has alluded to the fact, although never actually come out and said it, that he resents the fact that "I" had S14....I guess it was my own MLC, I wanted another, thought that H did too....I was pushing 38 when he was born. Actually, H did indicate at the time he wanted another. He has never been the parent to S that he was to our D though, sadly. Even D has said that she feels sorry for her brother because he had such a different father. I have to admit, $$$ wise it made no sense to have another. but then when do kids ever make $$$ sense...or time sense, or marriage sense, or any "rational" sense now that I think about it.
Quote: My gut feeling is this, Fizz - you need to start standing up for what YOU deserve. Not in an angry/sad, "why can't you behave" way, but in a calm, rational, detached "I'm a loving and faithful wife and I deserve better from you. If you're not capable of better, then I will move on and find better in my life. If you ARE capable then it would look like this: marriage counseling antidepressant therapy financial counseling
I am going to print this off, carry it with me, and read it until it is burnt into my brain.
interestingly, when we were discussing the financial issues that upset him I asked him if he would go to budgeting classes with me. I plan to go as soon as i can, gotta do diabetes ed classes first, not sure if I can handle two at once . His response was priceless, and really sums up a lot: "I didnt make the mess and I'm not going to clean it up"...WTF...words cant even describe. all these years and 2 kids and college and grad school, and he didnt make the mess so he's not gonna clean it up?
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