I am reading book called “You Don’t Have to Take it Anymore” by Steven Stosny. I think it may have been Lou who mentioned the website www.compassionpower.com. I found a few discussion topics very interesting – “Why marriage counseling has failed” and a discussion on how to overcome anger. So I ordered the book.
The reason I am looking into this is that I have had plenty of bottled up anger and resentment in my marriage. My wife still holds in a lot of anger herself, which she seems to be working on with our counselor. I see a lot of this in all the threads on this board and know that the topic has been touched on here before, but not to a depth that I felt I learned much. What I have read in other books on verbal abuse is that the abuser just needs to stop abusing and the victim needs to stand up for him/herself. There is some talk on uncovering past FOO issues that lead to the abusive behavior and some talk on how forgiveness requires just doing it.
But all this advice rang hollow to me, since my wife and I were also trapped in various power struggles. The idea of forgiving her has always felt like capitulation to me, especially if I saw no change in her behavior. I felt like I was just caving in and resigning myself to live under her domination, throwing out all my values and having to switch over to hers. When topics concerned my kids, it was more than I could do.
We have made good progress in understanding more about the FOO issues that drive each of us, and trying to stop our reactivity. She has read most of Schnarch, which I think has helped. She has also picked up “Come to Your Senses” and a book I bought on OCD. So there is beginning to be growth on her part. You all know how I have dived into the theory of Schnarch. This has helped me immensely because I can use this understanding to stop her deflections, and recognize not only when she goes off on a tangent, but why she does so. I have learned to better hold on to myself. She has read this board, and while she thinks I skew everything I write, I think she does see value in my comments. I think she has a better understanding of my positions, how I see things and why I think as I do.
But we still have resentment from the past and I have not seen a good way to get rid of that. The book “You Don’t Have to Take it Anymore” mentions why traditional methods of anger management have failed – blame and guilt are generally used to suppress the behavior. This works in the counselor’s office, but at home the power struggle resumes. The book’s basic premise is that abusive, controlling, or other dysfunctional behavior is basically a manifestation of pain. The best way to address this is for the “victim” to show compassion to the “abuser.” This acknowledges and validates the pain and lets the “abuser” feel heard, valued and loved. In my opinion, it is a form of enmeshment, because in truly Schnarchian terms, the abuser needs to understand his behavior and control it on his own, under threat of the two choice dilemma.
But what if that person is not able to confront the FOO issues that create the pain within, that cause the abusive behavior? What if denial is too strong and divorce seems like the only option? But aren’t those who choose divorce really doing so out of weakness? And if they are weak in this way, they are also too weak to follow through with divorce (they just like to throw out a threat, to hold on to control). As we see in some MLCs, the WAS can “come to their senses” and return home their tail tucked between their legs, seething with anger at their own weakness, but projecting their problems onto their spouse. The spouse usually plays a complimentary role to keep this cycle going, helping to create gridlock.
So what is the answer? I think both people need to move through personal development and growth in stages. The twelve step approach seems to be the general process needed, starting with acceptance of the problem, and so on. But I think fully understanding your own FOO is critical. Learning to differentiate and hold onto yourself is next. Then recognizing and stopping deflections and avoidance tactics in yourself and your spouse, in order to keep focus on the real problems and issues and keep moving forward. But I have seen so many on this board get to a place where they are stuck, as I have been, because it is so hard to forgive.
The book says the key to forgiveness is compassion for the hurt and pain in your spouse, understanding that their actions and abuse are really a cry for help and understanding. By showing the abuser compassion, s/he will get the message (through guilt I think) that s/he too should be compassionate. I think this is not to hard for most of us to understand, but curbing that feeling of anger to do this is the problem.
The book essentially uses the “Come to your senses” way of thinking here. Emphasis is placed on your core values and morals, understanding that your “higher” self is about compassion, and tapping into the mothering/nurturing instinct we all have toward a hurt child. So Stosney is basically saying to view your abuser as a victim and offer compassion. S/he will hear that message since it is those core hurts that are causing the abusive behavior in the first place.
I can easily see how this approach, combined with an understanding of Schnarch, can lead to a break through approach. There is a de-emphasis on guilt and blame and a focus on addressing core hurts. Understanding the concepts of differentiation and enmeshment can help in knowing when you should hold to boundaries and when to enmesh and get closer. So I see room for some of the re-enmeshment theory of Dr. Laura, as well as the relationship bonding approach of Harley and IMAGO. Properly holding on to yourself is critical for the proper delivery of this compassion, so as not to become too enmeshed. Detachment as proposed in “Come to your senses” should be very helpful.
One note about boundaries. Stosny says the problem with boundaries is the idea that they should be ESTABLISHED. Establishing boundaries means they will always seem artificial, like a line drawn in the sand. Most therapists assume those who have problems holding to boundaries have problems in setting boundaries that are heard, that the problem is due to a lack of skill by the boundary setter. The real problem is that boundaries should be true expressions of your core values, not reactions to your spouse.
It also involves self knowledge – coming to terms with who you are and what you stand for (which requires the understanding of your FOO) to establish an inner sense of self that does not require validation form anyone else (Schnarch’s self validation) and which will no longer cause you to internalize your partner’s pain (like “Come to your senses”). So what Stosny describes sounds very much like the differentiation that Schnarch proposes.
The strength that comes from this preparation is what allows a victim to become compassionate toward the abuser, which is what the abuser is really wanting in the first place. This is the only way to get the abuser to in turn give back to you the safety and protection you want. Angry, resentful people cannot give back love.
I am only halfway through the book, but I thought there might be enough value in these ideas to trigger a discussion. Any thoughts anyone?
Quote: The real problem is that boundaries should be true expressions of your core values, not reactions to your spouse.
This solves the problem of enmeshment. In fact, to the extent that our behaviors STOP being reactions to our spouses (or anyone else in the outside world) and become expressions of our core selves and our core values, we don't have to worry about enmeshment, even if the behavior LOOKS LIKE enmeshment to the outside world. Thus there may be times when forgiveness IS resignation and capitulation and times when it is pure liberation. The determination of which it is lies within the forgiver-- not anyone else, including the person being forgiven.
I'm getting that book immediately. I do so value your clear-thinking contribution to this forum.
So Stosney is basically saying to view your abuser as a victim and offer compassion.
This is what I was trying to say in my thread about treating our SOs as though they were an adopted child. If you adopted a child (especially an older child) you would expect them to come with baggage and you would expect to have to love them warts and all. Every one took what I was saying to mean that we should "parent" our spouses - but what you have described here is much closer to what I was trying to get to.
I think the problem is we all come with baggage, and we all come to marriage (or a long-term R) with the hope that the other will carry that burden for us. Of course they don't/won't/can't so we become abusive towards them for not meeting our expectations.
Maybe being differentiated means learning to carry our own baggage - while being able to say, "gee looks like you have a heavy load there, must be tough going" to the OP but without offering to carry it for them (can't be done anyhow).
I think this could be why I regard my H as "weak" - he is not carrying my baggage for me. Hmmm, could be a breakthrough realisation right there!
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
In response to Hairdog’s comments regarding his wife (see here), the following may be of some help. I’m slowly working through the book, but Stosny uses the same logic as Cesar Milan, that you need to stay on top of things before they spin out of control. Once in the heat of battle, it is difficult to back down from the red zone. So Stosny proposes some visualization exercises to practice triggering this sense of compassion as soon as any sense of defensiveness develops (he says you need to practice this for 6 weeks before it came become an automatic reaction).
On Hairdog’s thread, Mojo also commented on compassion. I think the expression of compassion is a tool to help you differentiate and break the cycle of escalation. When you hold to boundaries that are established from your core values, you can hold on to yourself in a strong way. But this means that you really need to know yourself first, and Stosny goes through a section in which you try to identify your core values. Once you know who you are, what you believe in and what your core values are, others cannot hurt you. This is where Stosny comes close to the book “Come to Your Senses” that Lil likes.
Stosny’s premise is that negative emotions are a sign that we need to heal and correct ourselves, just as pain is a sign that something physical is wrong and needs to be fixed. Blame, resentment, anger, obsessions, manipulation, control and chemical abuse are all different reactions to core hurts, which in turn are vulnerabilities to our sense of self. He defines core value as “the drive to value – to experience a sense of safety, security, and emotional connection to others”. So “Your core value is invincible” and “Only your behavior can affect it. But while you can never lose core value, you can lose touch with it. The impulse to criticize, devalue, control, or harm your wife tells you that your current state of core value is too low. These negative impulses do not tell you that you need more power; they tell you that you need more of a sense of core value.” (p.183)
Stosny’s path of “HEALS” (his term for his methodology) is (p.201):
Your blame, resentment, anger, obsessions, manipulation, control and chemical abuse Triggers you to implement the HEALS imagery Which sooths your Core Hurt Which rebuilds your Core Value Which allows you to love yourself Which allows you to recognize your spouse’s Core Value Which helps to rebuild her Core Value Which sooths her Core Hurt Which helps her to solve the problem in your and hers best interest
Stosny also recognizes the emotional element in us, saying this is evident in babies. His example is that giving a baby food when hungry will not be enough “once her distress system( crying, reddened face, writhing body) gets going, you need to comfort her by connecting to her emotionally. This drive to value and connect gives comfort, security, and confidence to human beings.” (p.179). I think this is why so often what we say is not hear, but how we say it is. Under stress, only the emotional connection will get through. This is just what Blackfoot is saying.
On the topic of resentment, Stosny says blame is always about the past and locks you into the problem. It puts you in a punishment mode rather than an improving mode. You can blame someone else or solve the problem, but not both. The survival purpose of anger is protection of loved ones. The purpose of resentment is protection of the ego, through a process of chronic blame. “Resentment and anger simplify, amplify, and magnify a negative stimulus….. Resentment and anger exist exclusively to devalue, reject, warn, threaten, intimidate, or attack, in your head or in reality, behind her back or in her face. You may feel as if you’re doing these things defensively, but you are nevertheless rejecting, warning, threatening, intimidating, or attacking.”
So with this logic, Stosny proposes the use of compassion to break the cycle. “The only way to get her to see your perspective is for you to see hers, and the only way to get her to care how you really feel is to care about what she really feels.” (p. 170)
I have got to tell you, guy... I am just sitting here so stunned and amazed by you, I don't know whether to laugh and do a happy dance for you, or to cry, from just sheer holy sh!tness. I think I shall do both.
It never ceases to amaze me when I watch people step up to the plate and take it full in the gut. Never. Not in a million years will I ever get over it.
Now you and I have had some tussles, make no mistake. And while I think it is an amazing thing to watch a girl grow into her womanhood, it is more amazing to watch a man grow into his manhood. And you, my friend, are well on your way.
You said this in your post:
Quote: The book says the key to forgiveness is compassion for the hurt and pain in your spouse, understanding that their actions and abuse are really a cry for help and understanding. By showing the abuser compassion, s/he will get the message (through guilt I think) that s/he too should be compassionate. I think this is not to hard for most of us to understand, but curbing that feeling of anger to do this is the problem.
The only way I could find forgiveness for my abuser from my childhood was to do exactly that. I even did it right before my D. I accepted my H for who and what he was... finally. Finally. And he told me, very bluntly, what he was and was not capable of giving me. Bluntly. THEN and only then was I able to take action.
I don't know if anyone would call it right or wrong... but I can tell you, where I am right now and how I feel about him and the whole thing, and how I continue to feel about him and the whole thing, I am done. But I know that. It isn't a guess... it isn't anger. It isn't punishment. I have forgiven him for every transgression, real or imagined. I only want for his happiness, and I want his happiness without me.
That is how I know I am done, right or wrong.
Keep going. I admire the he!! out of you, especially when I see how far you have come from the day you showed up here.
I want to really thank you for your comments. They mean a lot to me. Yeah, I know I’ve been upset with some of your comments in the past, but I know that was only reactivity on my part. Hopefully I’m past that now and I hope you done harbor any ill feelings. Glad to see you posting more. Keep it up.
