Quote: I still, to this day, have a TERRIBLE, paralyzing fear of rejection. I am forcing myself to get over that, but it's hard as hell. ... I don't know if they every will understand that we can be that for them. I suppose it's possible that to THEM, we may never be, but I cannot concern myself with that possibility right now.
OMG, GH hits the nail on the head. This is the struggle. I think the fear of rejection is SO debilitating, it almost throws the rest of the growth we've made out the window.
I can spend all day thinking of romantic and sexy things to say and do, and when it somes down to taking true action, I don't, if I do, it feels contrived. How do you overcome that fear?
Have you read Passionate Marriage? If you get nothing else from it, you will get an understanding about just how important self-validation is in terms of expressing your sexuality or intimacy. I am not nearly done with it yet, but in the first 100+ pages, I have gotten that message loud and clear.
GH, I too have a TERRIBLE, paralyzing fear of rejection, in any and all sitch. As you know last weekend, although my heart was pounding so fast in fear, I attempted to be intimate with my H. As you also know, I was rejected. I felt the hurt and sadness and then chose to let it go and proceed with my day. This was really big for me.
Quote: As you also know, I was rejected. I felt the hurt and sadness and then chose to let it go and proceed with my day. This was really big for me.
And if I didn't say so before, I will now; I am really proud of you for that. I did the same thing, got the same reaction and then moved on. It really does feel good knowing that at least SOME of my self worth doesn't come from her anymore.
A couple things from yesterday to post about. First was that I had a POUNDING headache last night. It came on as I drove home from work and got worse. Usually I take S6 to karate and after lying down for a few minutes (w was on the couch too) I got up to do that. Since the grocery store is right in the same shopping center, whoever takes or picks him up usually goes to the store too.
M: Hey, I'm going to take S6 to karate. What do we need at the store? W: I'll go later. M: I'm going to be right there. W: Ok, fine, if you really want to go. M: (getting agitated because of my headache...or something else, who knows) I'm not jumping for joy over going, it just seems silly for you to go back out since I am going to be there anyway. W: Fine. M: Ok, so we need xxxxx, xxxx and what else. Do we need any paper towels? W: WELL, we don't have any so...(in a short tone). M: Look, I told you I had a bad headache and I am in a kinda bad mood because of it. If you are going to be that way with me, I should just go. I'm not in the mood. W: Lots of people have headaches... M: Wow, ok. Sorry. I'll be back later.
I don't know if I was being an ass, or just direct. I know I don't usually just come out and say how I feel like that, so maybe it's a good thing.
That blew over and then later, W was still in a foul mood. She had not said much to me ever since I got home and just kept to herself. As we were putting S3 in bed (a problem these days...unrelated to everything else) he needed his nails clipped. First, I asked W where the clippers were and she snapped "in the drawer". I responded with a perfectly logical (IMHO) "upstairs or down?" She replied in a sarcastic tone "WHAT drawer upstairs" as if there were none. Anyway, I found them and went back to S3's room where W was on the bed, he was on the floor, and handed the clippers to her. She always clips their nails. It's never been an issue so far as I know. So, she just laid there, S3 was whining about not wanting to go to bed. Finally Itook the clippers from her and started to do it myself. She said...
W: Wow, you're just going to snatch them out of my hand like a 2 year old? I was going to do it. M: I'm sorry. I guess I am just mirroring your mood. I am tired and still have my headache (took lots-o-meds but to no avail). I'll finish it and then he can go to bed.
She proceeded to be pissy with me and the kids. I lay down with them for awhile and when I came out of their room (they are sleeping together now and then) I decided to try REALLY hard to get over whatever was causing MY mood, i.e. detach from any negative vibes from her, and it worked. I got some work done and when we sat together to watch TV (her request, which was STRANGE as hell because she usually doesn't suggest such things) she asked me to rub her back and told me she had a long day too and was just feeling tired. The rest of the night was ok I guess, but I can admit that I spent most of the evening angry and took it out on her.
I am having a lot of those "entitlement" feelings lately, like I am entitled to have intimacy and a renewed relationship with W. I am getting impatient once again and failing to understand that progress HAS been made and that I need to focus on that and not so much what's left to do.
I am tired. I know that's part of it. I am trying to give myself a break. Posting here does not bring me down like it does some of you so I will probably keep that up, but in real life, I may pull back a bit.
I finally have my C session tomorrow so I'll post more about that soon. Also, thinking of taking Karate with S6. I practiced long ago and would not have to pay so why not. Add that to my coaching career (second practice with S6's team tonight) and I am filling up the calendar pretty nicely.
GH, Sorry you had such a rough evening but that is to be expected. None of us are perfect and your wife cannot be a "fair weather friend" i.e. only love you when you are in a good mood.
That being said, we all should take a little break and step back a bit, be thankful for the progress that we have made and stop chasing the "dream" that may never come true. In other words, I guess, detach a bit.
Now how do we get over this rejection and show our spouses that we really can be good lovers?
I may be naive, but instead of trying to guess why we aren't good lovers, can't we figure out what makes them think that? In other words, what do they think being a good lover is, what has to happen to make them feel we are good lovers?
I guess what I'm saying is that their needs for this are different than our perception is on how to meet this need. I just think we need to be able to relate to them in their own way to meet that need ie.. we aren't really bad lovers at all, we just aren't clicking the right switch.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
Marcus Aurelius
I'm not real sure of your sitch or I guess what I mean is how you guys normally communicate. In my sitch before the problem surfaced I would usually ask those types of things when we were starting to be a little intimate. Back then it would have been a casual conversation for me. Now, I would probably wait until she was wanting to discuss problems in our R then bring it up with some of the other problems.
I guess you are the one that knows how to talk to him and also you are the one that knows what has worked and what doesn't. If coming out and asking has produced favorable results for you in the past then I think that would be fine. Everybody is different though, so approach it in a way that you think will work.
One other thing, I am by no means even close to being an expert on any of this. I just another struggling sole trying to find my way.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
Marcus Aurelius
You are right I think. I suppose I, and probably Mama have spent so much time in "no R talk" mode that it's often the last thing we thing about these days. Gee, why not just ask.
I know in my sitch, I don't really have to ask because I have enough that my W told me over the years, and in recent R talks that I could do to be "better" that I can wait to get more info. I think for my W, part of me being a good lover, and I don't really like this but...is for me to know what to do and when to do it. Since we have done NOTHING for the past 8 months, it's really hard to figure our when and what to do. I am getting to the point where I think I do just need to come right out and be direct. My fear of rejection is strong though and it's only VERY recently that I learned how to overcome it enough to make slightly more than subtle advances towards her. I think now I just need to stop all the beating around the bush and just come out and ask what she's looking for. If she says she doesn't know, or won't tell me, fine. On the other hand, if she does tell me, then I am much better off than I was before.
That all said, I think one of my problems is that I am not assertive enough in this area and that won't be addressed by having a conversation, especially one that comes BEFORE I have taken direct and obvious ACTION to try to initiate intimacy. Until I do that, and I am satisfied that I did all I could, I may not initiate the convo...then again, I may do it tonight. It's a game time decision for me, lol.
