i've read in michelle's book that LD women still love their husbands, even if they do not feel sexual desire for them. and she also says for HD husbands to not feel as though it is necessarily *because* of them that their wife is LD. my argument for this, i've just realized, is that - LD women remarry and *become* HD. how is this? unless it is because of the man or relationship? i really think it may be a matter of chemistry. and if it ain't there - or even if it once was and now isn't - there is no way of rekindling it. i'm not married, only engaged to a LD fiance. after all the advice and insight, i think it's time for me to go. and i think it's a matter of chemistry. there is nothing 2 people can do if the W or fiance does not desire them. no change of circumstance. no goals. nothing works.
maybe, I'm hurting for you... it's a tough place to be...
One of my teachers said once that for a successful marriage, you need the three C's: Caring, Commitment, and Chemistry.
Here's a quote I usually pull out at times like this. It's from David Deida's book "It's a Guy Thing," and even though it is directed to women, you may find something of value in it for yourself:
Quote: Is it possible for partners to grow in different directions?
The one masculine trait that transcends a man’s purpose is his connection to truth. If your man’s connection to truth remains strong, his purpose might change as he aligns himself more and more with truth. For instance, for five years he may be totally dedicated to a business, then give it up and move into a monastery. Although this might look like a completely different purpose, this may be the closest way—for the present time—for him to live his truth.
If you ever wonder about your man’s new direction in life, ask yourself: Do you feel in your heart that his new direction is more aligned with truth or farther from truth?
Even if his new direction is aligned with his truth, is it aligned with your truth? You might not want to change in the same way that he is changing. How do you bridge that gap? Honestly, come into touch with what your truth is, what your heart truly wants.
Temporarily separate yourself from him to discover your own desire. Naturally as a woman who lives her man, you will be moved to embrace him. However, you may have a conflict between where he is going and where you want to go.
While you are apart from him, feel in your heart in whatever way works for you. It may be through talking with other women, through ritual, silence, or spending time in nature. Discover what is the fullest expression of your heart. What would satisfy your heart the most?
If his truth has carried him in a direction compatible with what would satisfy and fulfill your heart, then your relationship remains viable.
It sometimes happens that two people continue growing and their relationship changes. This is not necessarily negative. In their growth, one person’s truth may lead their daily life in one direction and another person’s in another direction. Sometimes these different directions are temporary and sometimes they last a lifetime.
How can I leave him when I still love him?
What you feel and what you should do aren’t necessarily the same; it is possible to love a man totally yet walk away from him. If the relationship is not appropriate, you can remain in love and still bring a relationship to an end. Your love, your heart, and your connection to God can be full and true, even while you are acting in this difficult circumstance.
Your head is your center of thinking, your heart is your center of emotional feeling, and your belly is your center of action. Your belly, just below your navel, is the place from which your action springs, your center of gravity. In Japanese culture it is called the Hara, and in Chinese the T’an-Tien. By relaxing into your navel area you learn to center yourself in dance and martial arts. This navel area is your center of power—the power to do.
Your heart may be flowing with feeling for a man, but your navel doesn’t have to follow that flow. You are free to act decisively and choose to leave a man even though you have strong feelings for him. You don’t have to shut down your feelings in order to turn your navel and move in another direction. It’s okay to love a man yet decide not to be in intimate relationship with him. It’s okay to turn from a man that you love and open yourself in love with someone else who will be a better partner for you.
Women are usually more moved by their feeling center than their action center, so it is difficult for them to walk away from a man they love. Most men are the opposite. They listen to their feelings very little. They are usually more involved with doing and thinking than with emotions. It is usually easier for men to walk away form a relationship.
As a woman, your balance is to remain in your feeling but act in accordance with your highest good, your deepest wisdom. Listen to your close circle of trusted friends. They usually can reflect what is best for you. Feel deep in your heart. Ask your highest self for guidance. Even though you love a man, it may be best to actively turn away from him, even as you continue to feel love for him.
How long should I wait for him to change?
This is a key to deciding whether a man is right for you. As he is right now, can you fully trust him? Or do you think that you could change him to a man you could trust? As soon as you find yourself thinking that you could change him, you are in trouble.
If a man is not already living a life that you would wed to yours, then do not commit in relationship, hoping he will change. It is fine to desire change and growth in a relationship, but you must trust him, as he is right now, in order to provide a foundation for growth in relationship and a basis for the practice of love. If you do not trust him as he is now, you don’t really have an intimate relationship.
So choose a man you can trust. Serve him in his growth so you can continue trusting him. But if you really don’t trust him as he is, then he will feel it. If you are waiting for him to change before you can trust him, you are locking yourself into a no-win situation.
Trust is the starting point of the practice of intimacy, not something to hope for in the future. In any case, if you find yourself staying in a relationship because you think your man might change, you are making a mistake.
Maybetime: I think you and I share alot; both is our situations and outlook. It's difficult to hang on and difficult to let go so again we find ourselves searching for what is right, fair and/or the high road to travel.
If it's any comfort to you, I think that re-marrying argument (or even dating a new person) comes with a certain amount of newness that begets chemistry. The question is how long will that chemistry last with the "new" person? Perhaps they will have even a shorter "honeymoon" period than we (the "old" relationship) experienced. Everyone is different, but its clear that some (my W, your F) may get more excitement than we do at this initial stages in the R, but their excitement may not have the staying power (eg, The Tortoise & Hare analogy).
I am learning to look at the overall picture in the relationship as the barometer rather than individual events (unless indiv event is cheating). The bottom line is figuring out how long to keep trying and when to cut bait. I am struggling with this as well.
thanks for the encouraging and thought-provoking responses.
yeah, i've considered the "newness aphrodesiac" as a possible explaination... which michelle covers. but that does not account for women who truly are LD in one relationship and HD in another... even over time. the other depressing conclusion of the "newness aphrodesiac" is that my F is still very sexual - just not towards me. and for whatever reason, she only fantasizes about "the unfamiliar". i know she loves me... but i think this is possible too. and a clear indication that she is either in the wrong relationship or should not be in one at all.
bottom line - is that i think it *is* me. but i can't help it because she is attracted to either 1) newness, or 2) me - when i was confident (i.e. "alpha"?) but confidence is stripped when sex is taken away. she ultimately i think the solution is in her hands, but there's no way she can know that.
i've been thinking alot about this "alpha male" thing lately. i really hate the theory because it leaves no room for the 'sensative guy'. but it seems to make a lot sense. can a sensative guy act the 'alpha' role to help contribute to his W or F's desire?
i guess this is really off topic now. but at this point what i'm saying is - i think it IS me. and in many cases, i wonder if it is the HD guy's fault for not turning his W or F on in the right way...
bottom line - is that i think it *is* me. but i can't help it because she is attracted to either 1) newness, or 2) me - when i was confident (i.e. "alpha"?) but confidence is stripped when sex is taken away. I'm a firm believer in chemistry. But I also think there is a difference between love chemistry and sexual chemistry. I'm sure your F loves you and you love her. But sexually, it comes down to biology. Unfortunately, what works biologically does not always work emotionally/socially. We WANT to have an amazing sexual chemistry with the person we LOVE, but for lots of people that just doesn't happen. Your Alpha male comments make lots of sense. Women are often very sexually attracted to the man that may very well not Love them in the end, like the sensitive guy would. So it's a struggle between WANT and NEED. We Want the Alpha male but Need the sensitive guy too. Can you have both? Maybe. Can you work on bringing out more Alpha male traits in yourself? I would think so, but again, everyone is different. My H is Sensitive Guy, which I do love about him, but I also Want Alpha guy in him to come out more. He is very uncomfortable with that so it is a constant battle, even if not verbalized, it's in my mind. And as for newness, yes, all people biologically will be drawn to the New. We are programmed to do so. Doesn't mean we have to act on it. I don't see anything wrong with fantasizing about other people, maybe even using mild porn now and then. It's human nature to have sexual feelings/thoughts about other people, acting them out is where it can cause big problems. So, is it YOU really? Is it your fault? No. I don't think so. Give yourself a break there. There are just to many factors coming into play here. And hey, as you can see from these boards, you're certainly not alone.
wow. great response. very thought provoking. ironically, i'm WAY more alpha than my F even remembers. it's because of her gradual removal of sex that i have become less confident and/or 'needy'. the only way back to what we were (albeit temporarily) is through drinking. which i plan to do a lot of this weekend.
your words hit home though. epecially from a woman. i would have never thought women would want the sensative guy to dissappear and the alpha guy to come out more. it just seems like such a sad solution... sure i can be alpha. sure it feels natural. but does it feel like love? no. it feels like i'm making myself into the sexual animal that any jerk can be.
your words hit home though. epecially from a woman. i would have never thought women would want the sensative guy to dissappear and the alpha guy to come out more. it just seems like such a sad solution... sure i can be alpha. sure it feels natural. but does it feel like love? no. it feels like i'm making myself into the sexual animal that any jerk can be.
Oh boy, now you sound like my H. As Lil stated, you don't have to be a jerk to be a "sexual animal." But I know why you confuse the two, my H always thinks back to high school when the alpha jocks were just a bunch of A-holes to the "sensitive" guys. The sensitive guy automatically became the "nerds" or "fags" and the jocks became the "meatheads." Stupid boy stuff. Not that girls were much better. But I digress. Women certainly do NOT want the sensitive guy to "disappear" as you stated, just show more Alpha traits, mainly confidence and assertiveness. I understand that you are in a vicious circle with your F, the less she wants sex, the less confident you become. But that is just making things worse. Remain confident. Again, it is not your fault. Sure there are things you can do better and you should, but she has to own her piece of the puzzle.
it's because of her gradual removal of sex that i have become less confident and/or 'needy'. the only way back to what we were (albeit temporarily) is through drinking. which i plan to do a lot of this weekend.
Lol. BTDT. H and I used to drink to get us "in the mood" too but that's not really a long term solution. You may be able to have some pretty hot sex, maybe, but there is no intimacy involved in that and the two of you will probably still feel disconnected when not having sex. The SL should make the rest of your R stronger, not bring the whole ship down with it. Speaking from experience here, the poor SL you have now WILL affect the M. Don't kid yourself into thinking it won't be a big deal or will magically resolve itself. It takes a lot of effort and motivation by BOTH people to work it out. Just my 2 cents, again.
maybetime said I would have never thought women would want the sensitive guy to disappear and the alpha guy to come out more. it just seems like such a sad solution... Sure i can be alpha. sure it feels natural. but does it feel like love? no. it feels like I'm making myself into the sexual animal that any jerk can be.
Lou’s old version would have gone like this maybe time I thought women valued the sensitive guy and wanted less of the alpha guy to come out...Sure I can be alpha. Sure it feels somewhat natural. But does it feel like love to my W? It feels like I'm forcing myself on to her and being a selfish jerk.. maybetime I think lots of men are in a similar situation as you are in. I just wanted to show you my version of your post to say what you feel / felt is not very unusual.
LFL I too appreciate hearing from you and others that alpha traits are admired among most/some females.
LFL Women certainly do NOT want the sensitive guy to "disappear" as you stated, just show more Alpha traits, mainly confidence and assertiveness. I understand that you are in a vicious circle with your F, the less she wants sex, the less confident you become. But that is just making things worse. LFL I suspect some LDW might have a different take on this, and this makes it more difficult for some H's to be more alpha.
There seems to be a common thought that comes out in TV, newspapers, and magazines articles some W really only want the cuddling and attention. You are comparatively HD and I wish more (one in my case) women had the mindset you have about sex is a good thing.
My question is, what beliefs that you have, would you think many LDW would say are valid if there was honest talk among a group of women. I think some women buy in to the I don't like sex that much from their peers.
I think some LDW might care little about a SL until they did not have one. Then it would be important.
Once they have a SL, then they say sex is a chore or they could do with less sex. Answer that question for maybetime’s benefit, not mine.
I am not trying to rain on your advice to maybetime. I think your advice has lots of merit and it has helped me plow through some of BB’s negativity. I still think the line you posted about “quit reading so much and get between her legs”
LFL Remain confident. Again, it is not your fault. Sure there are things you can do better and you should, but she has to own her piece of the puzzle
Maybetime it's because of her gradual removal of sex that i have become less confident and/or 'needy' That is a common situation and reaction.
LFL Speaking from experience here, the poor SL you have now WILL affect the M. Don't kid yourself into thinking it won't be a big deal or will magically resolve itself. It takes a lot of effort and motivation by BOTH people to work it out.
