Another update, since it's been two months. Not much has changed with MY state of mind, but my wife has really started to think logically, and started to recognize some of the things that did and didn't happen in our marriage. Along with that, she's begun to see her own role in its decline, and stop blaming me for things beyond my control.
My son starts kindergarten tomorrow, and it's a huge event in my life because he's not getting on the bus at his own house! Despite that, he and I are closer than ever, and nothing can diminish that wonderful feeling.
My wife is living with OM, but in a weird way - she STILL has not moved her stuff out of the house, and our Separation Agreement will be filed within a week or two. She calls me often, often for very non-urgent reasons, and yesterday she spent over six hours with me and our son. I feel terrible about her confusion and pain, but I'm not doing anything to help or hurt - just let her figure it out. Our marriage is basically over, yet she depends on me for many things in the "expert help" department. Perhaps that's all there is to her not wanting to let it go, but more and more she acts as if she understands how wrong some of her assumptions were - not consistently, but very often. She asked me a week ago to delay filing the Separation, and I told her there was no reason to delay - a year's separation is required to grant a divorce, and it could be ended at any time anyway. It's not really that simple, but close enough.
If you're reading this and you are new to the forum, you'd probably give your left arm to hear your spouse ask for a delay on the split, but IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE! Her confusion and uncertainty is better controlled by me than accomodated, to be sure. The WAW's in particular seem to need a strong presence, but not a controlling one. One thing for sure: My wife knows I don't "need" her, and that's critical. After too many years of walking on eggshells with her, I'm relieved that I don't have to anymore, despite my horror at this whole situation, and undiminished desire to have never had it happen. Mixed feelings, but not so bad in some ways.
There's no point in me repeating any advice here, because it's been said a million times that you need to GAL, etc., but I can tell you this: If your spouse was everything they expected YOU to be, you wouldn't be reading this right now! So give yourself a break and understand that you can only control your future, never your past, and enjoy every moment of your life, as impossible as that may seem. Think very, very hard about what you future will be like if you and your spouse reconcile after all that's happened, and ask yourself:
"Is that how I want to live?"
Or better yet:
"Is that dream realistic, given what I know now about my wife/husband?"
And finally....no matter what the answer to the above question is, live your life the same - free of regret, bitterness, attempts at controlling your spouse, and anything that doesn't make you proud [not happy, proud] to have done. It's not easy, but it's mandatory.
Wonderful post! I think we all need to realize there is a life after separation, and it ain't all bad. Thanks for that. I hope things work out whatever way you want them to. It sounds like you'll be OK either way...ahh sweet detachment
Let me think carefully about this before I reply - I may spend some time reviewing your posts before I really reply, so I can do well. Hang in there! One thing that made it very hard for me was my wife's frustration being directed at me - my attepts at "niceness", which isn't the right word, were often met with low-grade hostility - made it tough to communicate, when she was angry all the time about something, but unable to define what. I'll be back.
Instead of loading you up with information about MY situation, let me ask you a question:
What is missing from your marriage?
There is nothing "trick" about that question, and it's not as easy to answer as it might seem, and it hinges on something critical. When I asked my wife, the answer I got was wrong. I know that sounds incredibly arrogant, but if there's one thing I've learned to do, it's to assemble the facts and go where they lead me, not where I wish they would, or I've been told they should. Once I made that leap of logic (faith is for people who can ignore facts - crazy when you HAVE facts!), I started to see the biggest issue of all: my wife didn't know what she wanted, and asking her just seemed cruel to her.
But you know what? I spent hundreds of hours finding out what she did want, and then told her - and for the first time in ages, she didn't argue with me. Oh, she wanted to, but she couldn't.
My point: If you feel like "something is missing" in your marriage - it IS! But "what" is the million-dollar question that we can answer if we put it all together, "facts and figures", and whatever the answer is, it is.
I'll warn you in advance, however, that having the answer will require you to take action, and I'll give you two hints:
1. OM won't be it. 2. Your marriage may not survive the analysis.
Sounds brutal, but how's living the way you are now? Any less brutal? You know that #2 is hard for me to write, because I'm not over anything yet - and haven't totally given up yet, either. But I can't live a life of sacrifice to an idea - sacrifice is a state of being guaranteed to get you no respect from your mate or anyone else, including yourself.
Reread that last sentence. Sacrifice is something for nothing, a fool's errand if there ever was one. When you do something, there MUST be a return - even if it's twenty years later, like it often is with children. But you MUST have the knowledge that it will be there, because without it, life is nothing but resentment and unrest.
I'm writing this to you to start your thought process, because I reviewed your old posts. If you and your husband HONESTLY lead a mutually beneficial life, then there's no "something for nothing" - if he earns all the money, and you clean the whole house, that may be a fair trade for you - but if there's sacrifice, there's resentment - relationship POISON. [Just an example - got more? LOL]
Think this one over, carefully, and answer that first question in a day or so.
Yes, it does say it all. I wish there was a private message function here for me to contact you - there's a hell of a lot more to it than meets the eye.
But here's the issue - your husband isn't reading it, you are.
So where does that leave you?
Well, look at your decisions, how you define yourself, and your answer to my question about what's missing. Not to sound like a smart-ass, but I KNEW when I asked about what was missing, the answer would be relationship-based, and it would include the roles you have in the family. To share a life with your husband, you both have to have lives to share. Do you? Does he? When men are asked what they do, they'll answer by talking about their jobs and hobbies, but if there was a woman president, she'd turn it into a relationship discussion, about kids or husband, very quickly - it's not right or wrong, it's just the way we're wired. Cunningham has that nailed, and the research and intelligence to prove it. Buy his book, read his newsletters, and keep trying to sway your husband in that direction. Oh, and let him be successful - if you treat him like he's faking it for ONE SECOND, it's over.
And most importantly, ACHIEVE something - as long as you're looking only to your marriage for satisfaction, you're going to feel something is missing. That something is YOU. The enormous flaw in the GAL theory is that it's treated as a tactic, short term and meant to get a reaction. Don't GAL for FUN - actually GET a life. Achieve something, don't just DO something. Get it? BIG difference. I'll keep thinking. You keep looking at Cunningham's stuff. I know the man. He's the real deal- not some internet thief. But don't think the answer is to fix your husband - the answer is to become powerful yourself, with plans, goals, and the will - WILL to make them happen. One caution, and I might say it again and again - be relentlessly realistic and logical about what you're doing, and separate facts from emotions. It isn't easy, and if I had to guess from your username, "Crazed", you might be self-destructing yourself, offering up an excuse for irrational decisions or rejection of facts. I'd love it if you tell me I'm wrong, by the way - no ego here!
CM, you know I go back to the beginning with you too and I just want to underline something dee said but maybe in a different way.
You keep talking about that time where you told H about your feelings and then things got better for a few weeks, then back to normal/bad again.
I am here to tell you that my W has said the SAME thing, hell, maybe even thinks it right now, after all this we've been through, but I ASSURE you it's not for lack of caring at all. It's the simple fact that I think and see things differently than she does and if she would just do me the courtesy of being open and honest WHEN SHE SEES something she doesn't think is in accordance with "the new way" things are supposed to be, I would work to correct it.
I am not 100% on board with Cunningham but he does have some good points, especially in terms of communication between men and women. I think that if you can recognize that your H failing to do some of the things he says he will is NOT evidence of him lacking love or concern but POSSIBLY just a difference of perspective, one that can be adjusted slightly to make both of you happy, you will be better off.
CM, I think it was in DR but I read that when one S is not willing to go for C the other often believes that person to be disinterested in the R. But in reality it could just mean that person is not interested in working the R in the same way the other S wants to. I think that is what GH means when he talks of differing perspectives. Maybe you H is not a book kind of guy. Try something else rather than continuing to shove the book at him because you think it is the right way to deal with your R issues. It becomes your cheeseless tunnel to continue on this track. It also creates more resentment in you which is no good for the R either. If he's like most of us guys just find him a R video/DVD so that he can use the remote control and you'll bag him for life
Ok, I'm back - finally. One of the things I regret writing above is that the book was something YOU were reading, not your husband - but the truth is, it was written primarily for men, but is equally useful for women WHO ARE INTERESTED IN LEARNING HOW MEN THINK. Unfortunately, society as a whole and social engineers in particular have taken man's true nature and turned it into something evil, when from it has sprung nearly every accomplishment of merit in history! Net result: men are relentlessly told how wrong they are to feel as they do, act as they do, want what they want.
So what am I saying? Feminism is the root of marriage problems? Hell no! But feminism and it's offshoots have, unfortunately, made men feel "wrong", and women feel somehow diminished for wanting men to be men. Oh, I don't mean abusive cavemen, so save the nasty replies, I mean strong, confident MEN - men who make women glad to be women, who can fulfill the role of protector, romantic lover, and father. Men are hard-wired to be this, women hard-wired to want it, and leopards are not to be blamed for their spots.
The reason Cunningham's stuff is effective is that it goes to the root of human nature, and Crazed, you recognized that - so get back to his site and downlaod the real book, the one that isn't free! In it, he talks about two things I'll bet will really resonate with you, and one that you desperately need to read.
First, the two: The "emotional scale" of men and women and how they differ, and "testing". After you read them, read them again, then again, then look for examples in your marriage. Then read again. I'll bet a million bucks you'll be apalled at how obvious it all seems after reading it, and wonder how you couldn't see it before. Then read the testing section, and ask yourself if it sounds familiar - did you do it? Did your husband respond wrong? (more on THAT in a second).
Next, read the "evaluation" section, and look hard at your marriage - not just as it is now, but as it was, before all this emotion hit you like a tidal wave. I'm betting that you'll find that you relly ARE married to a good man, who loves you, and wants to have a happy marriage himself.
Now, back to the "testing". Read that, and ask yourself WHY? WHY does my husband waffle and change his answers to always try and please me when I know he's not doing what makes him happy, or what he thinks is right? Just to shut me up? Because he has something to hide? Here's the big secret, the most confounding irony, the greatest trick pulled on women - he does it, against his nature, because HE LOVES YOU. He surrenders his heart's desire, he surrenders his passions, he surrenders what he thinks is right - for YOU. He's been told to by "society", and you implied as much by asking. And you lose respect for him, and he for himself. Sexual desire evaporates and you're left with, hopefully, a good man who continues to be a dad and provider, but......drumroll please.....the thing soooooooo many women have said......"something is missing"....."I love him but I'm not IN love with him"...."I need more than this".
Knowing this......get what's missing, fall in love with him, get what you need...from him.
If he's any kind of man, he wants it - he wants to be your man, to posses you, to lead you, to smile when you enter the room, to look forward to seeing you, to make love to you, to grow old with you. If he fails every test, fails the evaluation.... maybe he's not. But I'll bet he is. All men are, with the right woman.
Hope you saw the newsletter from Cunningham today. If you haven't read the "emotional scale" descriptions yet, search through his archives for info, or read it in the book if you have it now. Way back when, I commented to you that your husband was "me" - THAT is what I was talking about. Men have a natural desire for stability that women DON'T, and women often take that desire to be apathy. When you said months ago that your husband panicked and things got better for a couple weeks, then went back to normal, THIS IS WHY: Men NEED things to be stable, just as women need some excitement and emotion. Everyone knows this, right? Ask a guy how he is, he'll say "fine" - probe further, he'll say "tired", "hungry", something shallow. He doesn't find deeper emotional states to be desireable - they're disruptive to his preferred state. Women, on the other hand, tend to be social, and emotions are a great source of satisfaction. Note that both men and women are criticised for being that way - men are "insensitive", women are "flaky". What BS that is! It's when we go beyond blame, and respect, enjoy, and laugh about our differences that we can truly enjoy a relationship. But in troubled times, that's hard to do......
The best piece of advice I ever gave anyone about marital trouble was after I learned it the hard way. I asked a friend what his wife was looking forward to. It was rhetorical, because if the answer was "nothing", he had a problem. If it was "I don't know", he had a problem. It sounds demeaning if you look at it from only one direction, but if you think of a marriage as an opportunity for BOTH people to make sure the other has something to look forward to, things could work pretty damn good, don't you think? And bluntly, few men need that as much as women, and as a result they don't even think about doing it - they think (naturally, don't you think?) that if they work their butts off doing for YOU what makes them happy, you'll appreciate it and be happy. In fact, you'll be bored to death, emotionally starved, snippy and unpleasant, waiting for something to happen that ain't gonna happen.
Boy, wish I knew more of this 5 years ago!
Read that "emotional scale" thing of Cunningham's.
