A little update here. More conversations have occurred with W, some centered around visitation and the upcoming separation. I have asked some more probing questions, just listening for the most part, but saying enough to keep the doors of possibility open. She's really reacted oddly to some of this -almost drawing closer, buying me ab irthday cake and presents, almost said "I love you" Friday, etc., but also pulling away - seems to be largely tied to the time she spends with OM. I can see the conflict in her and she knows it's there, but I'm trying to illuminate some of the radically illogical moves she's making without being accusatory or mean - just "open". We shall see. I don't think I have much to lose, really. Her self-esteem and sense of achievemnet are at all-time lows, and I'm really trying to build her up in a way that doesn't focus on her personal appearance or physical shape, which she has always focused on too much.
I think you're referring to a series of posts from "tulip" -you might try searching for that and WAW, and somewhere under the archived main index stuff there's a link or two to some of her stuff. I'll see what I can find.
Another update: Asked her last night if we could discuss the separation agreement today - she thought Saturday would be better. This morning, I told her that I couldn't see putting it off, and I'd like to do it tonight. She snapped at me and said it was too early in the morning, and she'd let me know later. She seems to be in some kind of denial about this situation - back and forth with her moods, almost wishing I'd attack her verbally, and surprised when I don't act emotional. She told me Saturday that it was too late for her to come home - it became too late when she started to spend nights with OM. Like an idiot, I failed to ask her why she felt that way. I know the answer - she feels incredibly guilty, and needed me to reassure her she wouldn't be punished for her actions, and that I know of my responsibilities. That was a big communication error on my part - and I'm really focusing on NOT making them lately. This is the biggest 180 I could make, as I have always been totally direct, totally honest, totally BLIND to what she was trying to talk to me about. Very Mars, she's very Venus; if you're in to that language. I read that book too long ago to remember all the details, but I get it now! It's very anti-DB, but I have asked her some questions to lead her back to her contradictions in describing the OM relationship. She is REALLY fantasizing/idealizing him, and if I do nothing, I'll lose my wife forever. If I do something, I'll probably lose my wife forever. I just have to choose the lesser of the evils so that I know I've tried my best for my family.
Just be very sure that a seperation is what is best for your situation. When I look at my sitch I see it as a double edged sword, because now I live away and have been unable to effectively DB the way I think would have been the most beneficial to my W. BUT had I not moved out I may have never found this site or read any of the books that I've learned so much from(you've already done that). Just make sure it is the right decision before you/she move out.
Quote: if I do nothing, I'll lose my wife forever. If I do something, I'll probably lose my wife forever. I just have to choose the lesser of the evils so that I know I've tried my best for my family.
I feel the same way. I need to know that I have done everything that I can. It is just determining the right choices, the right actions and reactions. It is like trying to walk with a blindfold on.
pmd - The separation point is well taken - I'm looking at it as a sanity thing for me, as well as a bit of GAL effort. One of the oddest things about this situation is how little I feel that I need my wife, but how much I miss her. I'm very comfortable with nearly everything I envision about my life without her, I just still look forward to seeing her. Weird, I know. The part that still freaks me out is that the separation is from my son as well, not just my wife. That part really sucks - for him and me. He's only 5, and I have to fight my instincts and almost lie to him, telling him everything will be fine, etc. I guess it will - he's not in danger or anything - but it really won't, because he deserves so much better. Either way, I'll be a great Dad - something I struggled with for awhile. My deteriorating marriage sort of "roped him in" and made it hard for us to connect.
It's been awhile since I've posted - there's not much new to tell, just the same old crap. Very few conversations with my wife, always businesslike, usually related to my son. I still get the impression that she's aggressively defensive, trying to make sure that she takes the hard line, worst case with me so I don't surprise her in any way. It's funny she sees the need, because I'm happy and pleasant, firm without being argumentative. Almost like she needs a fight to continue blaming me or something.
I read so many similarities on this forum. The latest is how often the WAW's family approaches them, and tries to convince them of their mistakes. Honestly, I think it makes it worse. Seems like they have to suspend some reality to explain their actions, when in fact they don't, if they could see what those of us here have learned. I guess the problem is that we're not trustworthy anymore, and often their friends and family aren't either, since they question their decisions. It's really too bad - I think most of us have some serious sympathy for what our spouses are going through. It would anger my wife to hear me say it, but she's in much worse shape than me emotionally.
You can't really help people who don't want it, but controlling our own behavior is something we can do, and that's one lesson that hopefully we've all learned.
Just thought I'd check-in and see how folks were doing, and give you a little update. Not much has changed since 6/13, my last post. My wife is still basically living away from the house with OM, my son with me except one night a week. He's really resistant to being with her overnight, despite OM's son being his best friend. The separation has JUST started, and with a mediator rather than attorneys - hopefully a good thing, who knows. My wife still hasn't taken much from the house except a few of her personal posessions - even the bulk of her clothes are here. Any time I try to talk to her about anything the least bit complicated, she still gets angry, but its a defensive kind of anger - like a first-strike against me, before I get one in first. Very odd, because I'm unfailingly smiling and pleasant, but not in a bad way, if you know what I mean. My relationship with my son has never been better, no doubt because the stress she caused by her unhappy presence is gone. That's short-term, though, because she'll have him M-F when school starts in September - I'd love to get custody, but she'd never agree to it and the courts would never award it, since it would have him in daycare. I don't know yet that it's the best thing for him, either.
I've learned a lot about life, and my wife, through this whole situation. The GAL advice is awesome, too. It's very apparent to me that part of what ruined my marriage was my willingness to sacrifice everything I desired for some vague notion of keeping my marriage together, or my wife happy. She kept adding to her demands, and simultaneously heaping on criticism, to "test" my resolve. I didn't break -just withdrew from fatigue and depression - but she ultimately did, no doubt convinced I'd be relieved. If you've read my past stuff, you know I was anything but relieved!! I still hate what's happened, but the things I can't control I can at least deal with. The silver lining for me is the dam bursting on depression, and the resulting discovery that I not only love my son, but I love being with him, just for its own sake. I think the stress of motherhood might have been what really overwhelmed my wife, but at this point trading my wife for my son looks like a good deal to me. Sounds terrible, because it is, and having both should be possible. then again, a relationship with your spouse based solely on sacrifice isn't worth having in the long run. SOMETHING had to change.
Everything I've learned about life, marriage, and my wife would, ironically, make me a great husband if I could do it over again, but I guess that's life. My one vow is to be different than every other man I've ever met in one respect: when I see a friend in trouble with his wife, I'm going to help him. Really help - not just give him BS advice and forget about it. And I'm going to MAKE him listen, like I wish someone would have done for me. Sounds aggressive, but somebody's GOT to change how men support each other. We owe it to the women, if nothing else.
Good luck to all on this board, and reach around and pat yourself on the back for trying harder than 99% of the people on earth to make your marriage work, and become a better person. There's a lot of crappy advice here at times, but there's a lot of solid support, too, and that can be far more important at times!
That was a really good post. Thank you. I think your "silver lining" stuff is really a testament to your progress. I think you'll do great going forward. Please, update every once in a awhile.
GH
P.S. I would say I'll be thinking of you but I'm trying to stop doing that so much, lol.
