Acting as if when spouse tells you everything

[tryingtosave]

My WAW tells me almost all the detail of her A. She has now one else that really cares about her. I feel that she is just about at rock bottom, but you only know that they were at rock bottom when time has passed and you can look back. Anyways, she tells me everything, I just sit there and listen and just remember everything. At this point the sex doesn't bother me as much as her professing her love for this manipulator.
There was a post somewhere on her about tips on acting "AS IF", but I've looked for 2 days without any luck in finding it.

[Luv4Me]

Sir, I feel your pain; well not really, but I can imagine.

I am so sorry for your situation. Go get the Divorce Remedy book, do it now, it will give you some degree of hope, some is better than what you have now.

God, I wish I could give you specific suggestions, but I can't, I just have hope you'll learn, that you'll persevere, that you'll beat the odds.

Keep up the good fight, bro, and drink lotsa' beer (just kidding, not since high school and college have I drank as I am now, but damn, I do look forward to another... .

[tryingtosave]

I have DR, I have been DBing my butt off, my C and I are both seeing dramatic progress. C previously told me he thought there was no hope previously, but didn't tell me til yesterday.
WAW is showing a lot of signs pointing to A being more trouble than it is worth. No more talk of me moving on from her and there is a lot of forward comments that slip from her mouth. Alot of baby steps.

I was wondering if anyone know the post I was talking about acting "AS IF"

[Brian_M]

I was talking about acting "AS IF"

Tryingtosave
Either brace yourself or stop reading now because I am about to lay into you. Assuming you are still reading, WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU? Why in the world would you act “as if” when she tells you about her A? First, your W left you. Then, she has an A. Though, she finally realized that the A was not all that she had hoped. So what does she do? She crawls back to her safety net, the pushover that will let her get away with it, YOU! Do you want to be a door mat?

Assuming that you don’t like being walked on, then stand up for yourself! Be a man right now, not her best friend. Your W betrayed you. There is nothing “as if” about that. You are hurt. You are angry. Now own that and be honest about it! Most importantly, be honest with your W about how angry you are. You need a 180 alright. Do the 180 right now and tell your W that she betrayed in a despicable and low way. Now, if she wants you back, then she needs to work for it. Then, if she is lucky and does a convincing enough job, then maybe, just maybe, you will start to trust her again over time.

Good luck…

[tryingtosave]

BS.....I said my wife is near rock bottom, she is a emotional mess..The only thing I can do right now is be her best friend while Dbing. I fear that SUICIDE would be an option for her if I was not the rock in her life. I have good reason to fear SUICIDE for her, I will continue DB while waiting for the affair to die, get her help, then worry about our marriage. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and just do the job at hand. Foolish pride gets u no where.

[25yearsmlc]

Dear trying,

I am not sure what to tell you except IF suicide really is an issue, then you can't use the normal DB methods. And the line between pride and self respect is a blurry one, but it is important for our health and may be the only way to get them/M better.

There are things in my sit (way diff in general I know) that actually may be useful to you. I've had several DB sessions and have taken copious notes. Anyhow, DB coach told me when I make logical points arguing against H leaving, I can sound parental/moralistic/how can you do this to us???etc" then the parental voice shuts their own inner voice 'cuz they spend energy defending. IF I try to predict doom and gloom for his choices and future, due to H's choices (like how lonely he'll be without us in the same state, or how we will probably end up with a D) IOW when I think of forcing H to face consequences now, DB coach said for me Not to be the messenger of bad news or consequences, etc. Said "Life will give him consequences, LBS doesn't have to tell him...also, being the messenger of doom is another way for us to get blamed for the news and kill the messenger, etc. It can make it easier on them leaving us. GIve them no fodder to use when they monstrify us.

If forgiveness will eventually get thru to your W as a sign of the love you have for her and your commitment to M, it seems good IMO. Experts need to chime in of course. But the idea of being a doormat is also NOT a way to keep M. Tough call to make. EXCEPT for the suicide thing, and IF that is real, and not manipulation of W or excuse, by her or you wanting contact, then read the DB chapters on Depression and
pray.

I'm sending positive thoughts and prayers your way.
jch

[Brian_M]

TryingToSave:
I gave you the steel toed boot because your very question sounded like that was what you were asking for. I took the time to offer an honest opinion in a supportive kind of way. You have the right to take it or leave it.

Though, I have 20 years of long hard experience dealing with a potentially suicidal person and certifiably crazy person. In fact, I have committed my own mother 5 times. Thus, I speak from experience when I tell you that the worst thing you can possibly do is use the fact that she is an emotional mess as an excuse. Life has consequences no matter how happy or sad you are. “Being suicidal” does not give her carte blanch to ignore the basic rights of another human being.

Let me break this down to another level for you. If she really is an “emotional mess”, then the very fact that she came running back to you undeniably proves that you are her safety net. Furthermore, your W confessed her indiscretions to you in detail because she essentially thinks that will gain her forgiveness and absolve the offense. Though, don’t you see that by selfishly pursuing her absolution that she completed ignored how that would make you feel? You acted “as-if” because you were secretly stifling all the pain that the event was causing you. More over, you were afraid to stand up to her and say, “No, hearing those details is not going to do any good. In fact, it would hurt me and further drive a wedge between us”. You apparently skipped that chapter in the DB book. You let go of your own well being out of fear that if she knew the truth that she was leave or hurt herself. I understand why you did it. Though, it is the wrong way to handle the infidelity issue.

There is nothing wrong with being the rock. If fact, I am flat out telling you that you actually need to be the rock! Though, being “the rock” means more than just offering unconditional love and support. It also means that you need to enforce the basic rule of life and human existence too. I am not saying that you have to ride the high horse of pride and punish her. Though, I am saying that you owe it to both her and yourself to clearly define that her actions where inappropriate and hurtful Most importantly, she needs to know that only true work over time will actually absolve her and regain your trust. Caving like a marshmallow, not enforcing consequences, and letting her live in completely self-centered world will not help either of you.

Good luck.

[grasshopper]

Look, there are a lot of things in DB that FEEL like you're being a doormat but in all actuality, you are just choosing NOT to react to something that is going on, i.e. detaching. I can't tell you how many times I posted here asking if what I was doing was being a doormat and each time I was told no because I was CHOOSING to do the things I did, and understanding that I would also have to suffer whatever consequences came from those choices. If I choose to suffer through my W's affair, which I did, and now by all appearences, it's over, then it's my decision to make.

I know it's a fine line but nobody is suggesting that you just suck it up and LIKE your W having an affair, but you can choose the time and place when you talk to her about it. In the DB way of doing things, that is NOT while it's going on.

You are NOT being a doormat but I do think you at least need to be honest with yourself about how you feel and decide if you need to put up some boundaries about this affair talk your W like to have with you. I am not saying you need to try to get HER to do something different, just that YOU may need to decide that hearing about the A is NOT ok for you and when she starts to do it, simply say, "Honey, I am not really comfortable talking about this with you right now." and walk away.

On the other hand, if you can stomach it, she IS opening up to you and as bad as it hurts, that is a good thing.

GH

[tryingtosave]

She doesn't go into explicit sex stuff, she just tells me about her emotions, what she dislikes about the OM, the wierd stuff he does(habits, not sex). OM manipulated her head real bad and is continuing to do so. Suicide is not a threat until the OM drops her like a hot potato. If I am not there for her, I fear where she will end up. I am her rock, I am detached emotionally from the situation, I know I cannot do anything but improve and take care of myself. I know this A will end, I am prepared to wait. I can handle the details, C told me I am fine when met with him individually, and that I have incredible self control, and mental and emotional strength.

[Brian_M]

I am detached emotionally from the situation

BS. Your are deluding yourself. I wonder how many years of therapy it is going to take to fix you once this is over? Just wait until you wake up in cold sweat at 2am and start hashing these emotional things over in your head. It will catch up you.

Most importantly, you have the whole detachment concept completely misapplied. You detach when a spouse tries to pick a fight with harsh words or says something with the sole purpose of trying to get a rise of you. Detachment is not sitting back while some one inflicts deep emotional pain on you. Most importantly, detachment is sometimes diffusing a potentially explosive situation by deferring the issue. You are missing all the relevant points

* She is still actively in the A! You are not detaching if you let her discuss this right now. Defer her attempts to talk about it until the A is over.
* You do not even “have her” right now. She could drop you and go right back to OM.
* Until she drops the OM and cuts off any and all contact, you have no commitment
* Her health and well being is her responsibility, not yours.
* If she wants to off herself, then your being in the middle of this sit is actually bringing her guilt to the forefront of her thoughts. In short, you are making it worse by being there right now
* Reconciliation requires that both partner put forth effort. At the moment, your sit is one sided.
* She wants to be absolved of her guilt and is very persuasively manipulating you to reach that goal
* You are enabling her A and her self destructive behavior.
* Get a new C

In short, you have absolutely nothing until she drop the OM. Quit being the best girlfriend she ever had and start being the strong and loving H that “MIGHT” (read your DB book!!!!) be there to talk with her once she gets her priorities straight.

[Edited to add: Do yourself a favor and print out this thread in its entirety. Then, take this to your C and discuss the points. Finally, please return and let us know what the C had to say.]