I empathize with your wanting answers and results NOW; it's frustrating to have to wait and to keep quiet when you want the R talk and want to know what's happening. In a very real way, I think he owes you a few answers. Unfortunately, if you push, you push him farther away.
The bottom line is this reality, I think: he has made very clear that he is not willing nor able to give up OW right now.
No matter what you do or say or how loving and upbeat you are, this remains how it is at this point in time. His A has not run its course. I think everyone here is in agreement that it will, sooner or later. But only time and patience will work.
So YOU have to work from that. And only you can decide how you want to do it or what's best for YOU. Should you just go on and GAL without H but be friendly and available when he contacts you? Should you give him an ultimatum? A time limit? You have to be careful with those because if you do, you HAVE to follow through with it. You are the one who knows yourself best and your H and what would work best for you with the least amount of pain. I understand your feeling of enabling him, too, but unfortunately I don't think there is a way around it without losing him completely.
But if this situation you are now in is driving you nearly insane you need to find a better way to deal with it. And I don't think pushing or nagging is it. He is where he is and you can't change it.
When you think back over the last few months, it seems every single personal R question you asked and R remark you made got you a response you did not want to hear. Am I right or wrong with this?
Yes, I guess I am having difficulty accepting the facts. My H is definitely not willing or able to end the A with OW. And yes, you are correct lucyhelen, every R conversation in the past several months has resulted in H saying things I do not want to hear, things I wish were not so. I have such a hard time believing that he can be with me, spend time with me, enjoy me, and then repeat repeat repeat that he is "in love" with OW, that he can't control his feelings about it and must honor them, etc.
I guess I am just feeling VERY stuck as to what to DO about it. It seems like none of the answers that I come up with are satisfactory to me. I am in pain, and I don't like it. I wish I had confidence that I had the absolutely "right" approach that ensured us a "happy ending" Sometimes I think it should be that I go dark, sometimes I think it should be an ultimatum, sometimes I think I should just continue to be patient, kind, compassionate and understanding. Then sometimes I worry that any one of those approaches will cause the "wrong" result in the end, and I am stuck. I feel like I could do anything if I had some true instinct that it would be the right thing, and be productive for my sitch. I wish I could say truthfully that I will be happy either way it turns out, but it just isn't true and I might as well be honest about it. I want my marriage, I want my husband to come home, and I feel very very powerless and ineffective about that.
You see, I know how to do "on my own". I thought we were doing partnership. I suppose I can end up saying that I chose the wrong partner if it doesn't work out eventually. But it's not what I want, and I don't want to have regrets later about anything that I have done. If this is an MLC replay phase, and he has an awakening, I want to be there.
I am tired, it is true. And sad again. I am crying as I write, once again. Yes, I will have to continue to GAL without H. And probably see him much less. I realize I can't go dark completely, because H still has his office in our home and will be doing some work on the house which is sorely needed. We have windows that have been waiting for H to install since March. We have siding that needs to be put up, and a few leaks to handle before the rains come again. So these things I think H will continue to do, and I appreciate them so will let him if he wants. But I think the socializing is hurting me, every time. He holds my hand, looks me in the eyes, kisses me, hugs me or holds me or cuddles with me, and then caps it off with a reminder that he's in love with OW. Or he's cold and aloof, which reminds me that he's not with me too. Problem is, these are also the best events to show off my wonderful self. I try, but I am not nearly as fun talking about bills and remodeling, as I am out to dinner, at a play, and in my little nighties
But, I need to say NO to H more right now, of that I am certain. Maybe not all the time, but definitely more. I do not think I will pursue going to the play with him in August as he suggested, as much as I would like to do it, laugh with him, and show myself off. If he pursues me about it, well then we'll see. However, if I do that I suspect that at some point he will say or do that which hurts me. I know DBing and many of the Christian books on this subject say to be patient, be loving, and to allow the H to come and go. To be his friend. I am doing this as best I can, but I just can't seem to avoid getting hurt again and again. For example, this time I have been completely preoccupied with thoughts of H and our sitch and being sad and frustrated and trying to figure out what to do, and being obsessive on this board, etc. for the past two days. I got thrown. I was strong and good, and then I got thrown. I guess I can't handle it.
I truly can't believe this is happening. I have been unable to accept it, that my H is saying what he is saying and doing what he is doing. It is so unlike the H that I have known and I have been unable or unwilling to accept it. I keep thinking my belief in him will jar his memory of who he is, and he'll miraculously reappear and love me once again. Maybe I'm the one living in the fantasy, not H.
I talked to someone today, who told me that her mom had an A which went on for 8 years while she was married to her dad. There was no talk between them about it ever, but the A ended and they apparently had a very happy 40 years total together, the last part being some of the best. When her dad was dying, he told the (adult) kids to take care of their mom, and to remember how fragile she was. And that he had forgiven her a long time ago, so if she ever worried or suffered about that he wanted them to know about it so they could tell her he had forgiven her and how much he loved her. His love was very touching to me. I wish I could do that. But my H is more "in my face" with his A than that. I am not sure if he wants me to set the boundary, but I am beginning to think so. He says repeatedly that he doesn't want to hurt me. But unfortunately, I am hurt by his behavior, repeatedly, and that's just the way that is. I have been thinking that he is looking for my limit, my boundary. My H hates rules, he is a rebel. And yet he wants to be the responsible adult. This is the essence of his MLC in my view. I think he is the rule breaking teenager right now, and he's wishing mom would swoop in and stop him, save him from himself. He (mis) interpreted much of who I was in our marriage as smother/mother instead of partner. I think H needs to find his own self-respect, and make his own new rules. But it feels like right now he is being disrespectful of me. He acts like he appreciates me, and then boom, he reminds me that he's not respecting me. It feels like a typical teenager challenge - "what are you going to do about it. ha ha ha" and it even has a teenager feel to it, the "true love" found so quickly after having sex on the first night they met, etc. etc. Maybe I just don't know how to do this. I am supposed to be the "heavy"? I don't think that will get me the results I am seeking.
Interestingly, H seems preoccupied with making things right in other aspects of his world, particularly financial. He seems uber-responsible right now in this regard (other than his spending on the trips to the OW, which he has decided are "fair" as he "deserves to be happy". I on the other hand, am beginning to lose interest in being responsible with the $$. I have been spending on me. I dropped another clothing size, I have pretty much had to change my whole wardrobe. This is nice and I am getting flattering compliments. But I feel like I should be protecting myself better and planning in the event that H really bails. And yet I don't want to and don't care right now. I am feeling rebellious too. I have been thinking about buying a moped. I am not kidding. I talked to H about getting one 2 years ago, and he didn't want me to (too dangerous, he said). Well, I don't think so. Our town is perfect for a moped, weather too, and I only live a few miles from my work. I am ready to have an MLC of my own. Being stable for everybody else is becoming less and less rewarding. I am lonely, sad, angry and sick and tired. I want my life to be different. If I can't have my H then all the plans I was working so hard to fulfill are now up for grabs once again. Maybe I can run away.
Lucky H isn't around tonight, I'd tell him he was going to hell in a handbasket, and that I was through.
Lucyhelen, thank you so much for your words tonight. I can not begin to tell you how much I appreciate hearing from you. You always give me hope, even when it might not seem like it, I am hearing you.
RB and Jokerman, same goes for you guys. I feel loved and understood. And your words and insights are helpful to me, even if no one can "fix" this for me right now. Please keep it coming.
I think everyone is seeing that I am frustrated and itching to take some action. Please hang in there with me. I need to keep sorting out what could possibly be beneficial. Detaching once again, for sure. Damn. Around and around I go.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
I woke up this morning, pissed off. If I was speaking to H today, I would be saying something to him like:
"I realize I have been in denial about you. I thought you had made a terrible mistake, and you would realize it. Now I can see that you are not committed to our marriage, and do not want to be - you are committed to being a liar and a cheater and pursuing that life. I have been hanging around with you, in denial about that. That must have been frustrating for you, as I have not been able to accept your choices. It was important for me to maintain respect for you, and the only way I could do that was to honor and believe in who you have said you are, and said you were when we married. I am giving that all up now. I don't want dishonest people in my life, and you are committed to deception, betrayals and lies right now. You are lying to important people in your life, like your brother and mother, and you have done nothing to clean up your betrayals to your son, the D's, our friends, or me. You and OW are perfect for each other since that is the lifestyle you both are choosing. It doesn't fit my values, and I can no longer participate. I feel like I have given my children, our friends and family the wrong message by supporting you, and I will now correct that. I have been protecting you and protecting your image, and allowing you to continue to deceive them and present yourself as an honorable person. Since you don't want to be, I guess you are not. I am done pretending to the world for you that you are a good guy. Maybe you are exactly what your behavior says you are, and I was just the last one to accept it. I wanted to believe something else. I will now accept that you are committed to this lifestyle, because that's who you are. I apologize for thinking I needed to save you from yourself."
I am away on a work trip right now, so there is no chance that I will actually say this to H, this week anyway. But that's how I am feeling today. I am disappointed, angry and ready to walk away, file for separation, see a lawyer, protect and take care of myself.
I will do my best to temper this, but I'm also not sure I should anymore. I have a week at a resort (while working ) to process things through. Right now, my beautiful private room with the pillow top bed faces the glistening pool. I don't have to do much until tonight. So all that works in my favor.
I may set up another coaching call with the DB coach Chuck. I do not want to be foolish. But I am really frustrated and want to move forward. If I can find a way to do that, taking care of myself without burning all the bridges between H and I, I would prefer that. But right now, I feel played out.
Thanks for letting me vent.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
Sorry to hear you're down these days. Actually, even though my sitch is going ok, I really like your script for what you would tell H. I know that's not very DB but then again, you are just validating him and accepting his decisions (between calling him an amoral, lying, cheating bastard undeserving of even being your toilet paper let alone H that is...). I know it would probably be wrong to SAY all that to him but it even feels good for me to read about you saying it so I can imagine how good it feels to you thinking about it.
Give it a couple days, take a swim in that great pool and maybe some of your edge will dissipate. If not, well, then I guess H has some fun in his future.
PL, I know it hurts but this is a process that is full of ups and downs. Realize that the ups are around the corner no matter what. It's the way of these things as you know.
PL, I don't think you really want to say that to your H. That's why going dark can be a good option. When you get to the point where your resentment is such that you can't effectively DB anymore (and I think everyone eventually reaches that point, whether they admit it or not), then it's definitely best to pull back (rather than show our resentment). You're effectively dark for a week, which is good, but you may want to start planning for a longer period.
I've been able to tolerate the last ten weeks or so (and DB effectively) only because I've been planning to go dark at the end of them.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
Sometimes I think it should be that I go dark, sometimes I think it should be an ultimatum, sometimes I think I should just continue to be patient, kind, compassionate and understanding. Then sometimes I worry that any one of those approaches will cause the "wrong" result in the end, and I am stuck. I feel like I could do anything if I had some true instinct that it would be the right thing, and be productive for my sitch. I wish I could say truthfully that I will be happy either way it turns out, but it just isn't true and I might as well be honest about it. I want my marriage, I want my husband to come home, and I feel very very powerless and ineffective about that.
Being stable for everybody else is becoming less and less rewarding. I am lonely, sad, angry and sick and tired. 
I want my life to be different. If I can't have my H then all the plans I was working so hard to fulfill are now up for grabs once again. Maybe I can run away. 
) to process things through. Right now, my beautiful private room with the pillow top bed faces the glistening pool. I don't have to do much until tonight. So all that works in my favor. 