Well HD, if it is any consolation your prose will live forever. I saved that one to my hard disk and read it periodically. It is a powerful piece of writing.
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
I think I can relate to your wife regarding her aversion to being touched in certain places.
Let me just say first that I was a LD wife in my first marriage, but in my second (going on three years) I am very HD. It would be an oversimplification to assume that I didn't love the first. Because if my LD attitude in the first M was because of lack of love than I might conclude that my current LD H doesn't love me, when I know that he does.
After much thought into why we respond the way we do, I have come to the conclusion that it has something to do with what I call "marital supply and demand"
With my first HD H, I knew he always, ALWAYS wanted sex. And he didn't just want me to lay there. The thought of sex for me with him just seemed like so much work. A funny thing about our marriage: in 20 years, he never successfully initiated sex. When we had sex, I had to start it. And the starting started several hours before we went to bed. I had to mentally prepare for sex. Talk myself into it. He and I both accepted this as the way it was. I just couldn't feel pressured into it. Unfortunately this arrangement left him still not getting sex as much as he would like, but it was better than nothing.
By contrast, with my second H, who is very LD, I find that I crave his intimate touch. On the rare occasions that he slaps my bottom, I love it. It makes me want more.
Finally, I arrived at my "supply and demand" theory and armed with this insight, I use a little reverse psycology on my 2nd LD H. I don't make any move toward him or even hint at sex. But when conditions are right (and those conditions might be different for your wife than for my H), I do things around him that I know turns him on. I dress, do my hair and sweet talk him all day. He loves when I do little things like fix him a glass of ice tea and bring it to him while he is working outside. I hang the laundry out on the line in my short shorts, pull weeds in my garden, and play other stupid little games to attract his interest. Then, when its time for bed (this was the hardest part for me to figure out) I pretend to fall asleep (with my head on his lap) or just go to bed.
It doesn't always work, he is after all a LD spouse, but I still find I get lucky a little more often with this no pressure game.
This little mind game will not work however, if you and your wife don't have an understanding about how often, in general, you have sex. Mine knows that I start to get really mean after more than a week of neglect. So maybe he is on to my game. But it still helps to remove the pressure.
Our agreement is sex at least 3 times a month, but I let him choose when.
The hardest part is waiting to see if he'll respond. Sometimes he doesn't. And if we hadn't set a predetermined guideline, I'm pretty sure this wouldn't work.
anyway, I don't know if you can use any of this info, but it wouldn't hurt to try. I firmly believe in this "supply and demand" theory. It is the only explanation I can come up with as to why I feel HD in this M but was so LD in my other.
Someone said women have "veto power" Let me tell you it is true if you are a person that cares what others think.
I repair printers and fax machines and come across "Women's veto power" or "gate keeping" (the person that allows or denies access) all of the tine in business and in personal relationships.
Unless you can work with your gf on this "veto power" and her opinion of what constitutes erotic, you have a lot of work to do.
About her wanting to rip your clothes off, yea maybe after you don't approach her for sex or any physical contact for a year or in my case as I was talking about not wanting to live with my W of 38 years.
god how do you get around the "stop focusing on it and stop thinking about it" trap? this is impossible it seems. i want to post CeMar's response in another thread... which is remarkable because this is *exactly* what happened to my fiance. only her father left when she was 6, and her mother died when she was 9... she moved in with her aunt and unkle and had to help raise their kids without much love from her new "parents"...
"You have a problem very similar to my wifes. My wife had horrible divorced parents and ended up running the household from the age of 9 on. She raised her brothers and sisters, sometimes for days with no adults around at all. She now suffers from the "Who wants to want syndrome". What that means is that as a child, you are looking for love, warmth, security, etc.. from your parents, and when they are not there or when they do not come throught with these things, or they constantly failed you as a child, you learn to stop wanting these things. In effect, all the people you were supposed to "Want" in life failed you, and so to insulate yourself from a failed relationship, you avoid any level of initmacy. That way you can not be hurt when this person close to you eventually fails you, as do all people in your life. You are trying to avoid wanting something that might hurt you in the long run, so you avoid "wanting" all together. In order to have true intimacy with another person, you have to lay EVERYTHING on the line, you have to become completely vulnerable, you have to RISK everything for real intimacy and love, and because of the LACK of love in childhood, you are trying to protect yourself from the possibility of being hurt, which in the long run, you will CAUSE this hurt to happen." ...posted by CeMar
i MUST share this insight with my fiance. it's going to be tricky, but this is unbelievably accurate. is this a clinical condition? because it seems to make a lot of sense. does recognizing it change anything though?
oh, and thanks for the posts everyone. i read something else about women's "veto power" yesterday, ironically. in the chicago-based 'red-eye' main story - "is america too busy to have sex" which is actually very interesting. it talks a lot about "scheduling". oh, and by the way, my fiance responded very well to my letter. she seems to understand more and more how serious this issue is. now if only we could translate this into action... i don't want to give up yet!
yeah i will second that. very rarely has my 'being patient' had any affect on her affection towards me. i believe my chances are higher when i'm not 'going on' about it... but at the same time, there is no ebb and flow of her desire based on my attitude. she could go for weeks without batting an eye.
To not hijack V/Z-Bube, I’m pulling up your old thread in reference to a post I made on his thread:
I was thinking about your sitch, in my usual Schnarchian way and wondered if there was any correlation to one of those couples in the book. Remember the first couple (Carol & Roger?). He was HD, she was LD. As she detached, found herself and worked through her issues, she realized how much Fred and her guilt held her back, made her feel less valued, etc., and she became more sexual and HD. Roger then lost his drive. Remember why? He used his sex drive as a tool to control Carol and vent his anger. As long as she bought into the line that she was “defective” she stayed in a subjugated role and he controlled the marriage. When she decided to no longer play the victim, he felt powerless and lost his erection.
I am wondering if this same dynamic could apply to you and your wife, as far as your relationship goes and a possible motivator behind your HD and your wife’s apparent ND? Is there some control aspect to your behavior that contributes to your HD and her ND? Do you think she might feel that you push for sex in a way that feels like control (and maybe even punishment) to her in some way, so she detaches, which makes you angrier and push harder for sex, ratcheting up the cycle and further exacerbating her ND? Could that be barely possible?
I just read your response to my supply and demand theory. I want to clarify something: I know there are ladies that can hold out forever. My H could too. Thats why this relieve the pressure appoach won't work unless the couple has had plenty of conversation and work through MC or whatever. The agreement needs to be in place, the work done (on the issue of sex) Then... try the back off game.
In the early days of our problem, this approach totally backfired, we have been working hard for the last six months. I made him start talking. No matter how uncomfortable it was. This was validated by the MC. Which sort of gave me permission and took away the last few doubts about my rights to good sex.
The wemon ya'll mention don't sound like they believe how important good sex is yet. For my man to understand, it took a serious threat that I was leaving him. (and it wasn't an empty threat) As much as I love him then and now and always, I knew our marriage was dying, I didn't have a choice. It was get him to start talking or I had to leave. The choice was really his.
Please don't make the mistake that wemon are somehow harder to deal with; both men and wemon will usually respond when they finally know your serious.
There is one big difference between LD men and LD women. The LD man still has approximately 20x the testosterone of a woman, so the ability to desire sex is still far easier for the LD man then the LD woman. In fact, I believe that for many LD woman, desiring sex is completely impossible unless they get doses of testosterone (which can be dangerous). They may be able to fakle some level of desire by changing their thought process, but true desire is possible out of the reach of many LD woman.
