Coincidentally, I had a phone conversation a couple of days ago with K on April 20th, 2006.
She had been emailing me and my emails back to her were one sentence long, no details, just acknowledgments of her email, and I could see that she was trying to get me to talk, so I called her.
You know she had been opening up to me lately, and the call became a talk about "us" and what happened, and why it happened, and how she felt then and how she feels now, and my "changes" and my alleged healthier insights and better behaviors. Got to speaking a bit about how I've noticed how I now differently work in regards to being in a relationship. K was all "Yes! yes! That's what I wanted from you!" Bittersweet.
She let me know that it wasn't that the OM was her great love, she admits that he simply offered the validation that she felt she wasn't getting from me, telling me that she wanted me to know it wasn't anything about him per se other than that; hinted that there are problems in that relationship. That she sees me now as this "great guy", was hoping I would have gotten to this place back then when we were married (which she's expressed before) and wondered why I never could, asked why it couldn't have happened while we were together (I told her I hadn't developed and needed this unfortunate crap to happen in order to get my wake up call), and implied that I'm the guy she was wishing this would all have come from, and expressed her wish to continue our friendship. All in all, a healing talk, and very sweet coming on the anniversary of our breakup.
She found the talk to be healing for her as well, and she called me back the next day for more.
She wanted to speak some more about how she felt, what had happened. There were things she wanted to tell me. We spoke about past events. We spoke about how we felt then and after. Toward the end of our chat, she cried, she was sad that our relationship may have been doomed from the start because neither I nor she apparently had it right since Day One. Then she told me she misses me, especially now that I seem to have finally gotten it together.
That talk detailed how our interdynamics played out and why. There were some things she hadn't considered about how her behaviors affected me, there were some things about how my behaviors affected her that I hadn't considered. During the talk, I also shared what I had learned in therapy about why I acted the way I did in response to her, sharing that understanding with her. We spoke about how her conflict avoidance played a part. We spoke about why I did this, and why she did that, and we each explained ourselves.
My understanding of that statement of hers about missing me is that simply she was missing the good things about me (as she's stated in the last few months), and now that she sees me being the person, doing the things, that she would've liked me to be/do when we were together, that gives her cause to miss me more.
I told her how much I had loved her, and how hard I had found it to let her go. I told her some of the things I had missed most about her. All this appeared to be a like a revelation to her; she said she never knew I had felt like that back then.
What that leaves me with right now is the impression that we see now that ours was an unfortunate comedy of errors. I think it made clear to us that it was not necessarily about being mismatched, which had been her impression. And that I'm really, all along, her preferred choice - if only these unconscious patterns of mine, and hers, had not sabotaged our relationship. I say that not out of ego, but simply because of her statements. Her telling me that I appear to have the understanding now that she desired me to have that I lacked then, that I've become the person she wanted all along, how she cried when she concluded that our relationship was doomed from the start because of these patterns, how she confessed her degree of missing me all this time and "especially now" that I'm being the man she looked for me to be.
I have a clearer understanding of her now too. Amid all the mistrust of her words over many years since discovery of the EA in '03, I believe I had an honest conversation with her. All good.
What a surprise to see you back here. I can imagine how satisfying it must be to have had these honest discussions. Isn't it interesting. You used the word bittersweet. I can't improve on that - it says it all. You should be very proud of yourself. When taken down this painful journey, you seized the opportunity to grow and change and follow your dreams. You've gained great insight and understanding. The reward for all this effort is finding your joy and making your own way. But it must also feel so amazing to hear all that K has to say, and a great chance for you too to lay out the truth of your experience for her. Two years is a long time to wait. I'm happy this happened for you, you certainly deserved this. Good luck to you. I hope you are at peace.
it almost seems as if she is making overtures for a rekindling
I'm not reading that into it; I've learned not to. It may be there, but I've learned to take things as they are. This *may* be her turning around, but time will tell.
I sent her a short email yesterday morning to thank her for having called. In it, I shared how I found the talk to be honest and to have a liberating, healing quality. I summarized what I believed I got out of it by way of understanding that happened to echo her understanding as well.
I decided to test the waters anyway, and mentioned "I feel that if only we were to meet anew today, being different people now, all this lousy stuff we never wished for would probably never have happened at all."
She wrote back today, responding with "I did feel that I came away somewhat enlightened, and even a bit relieved" and "yesterday's conversation felt very open and honest and important" and expressing an interest in continuing our talks, and also writing in part: "I, also, feel that if we met today, things would be different. I think we've both grown and I really do hope that you mean it when you say we can be friends. It means so much to me."
Well, I think I've come a long way and now I think I'm hearing that the slate has been pretty much wiped clean. I'm happy with that.
NYS, you know how much I respect and value you as a, well, I guess mentor in all this. It's really great to see you back here sharing some pretty interesting/good news. You served your time and then some so it's nice that you return to let people know that even after it's "over" it's not really over.
Ever since your last thread, it seemed like things were moving towards this. It's almost like that process Michelle describes of the WAS noticing the changes we make just took your xw a LONG time to complete. Now, she understands that what happened to you, the changes you made were not only permanent, but for YOU. If they were for her, or about her, then obviously you would be a different man today than a year ago and you're not. You're the same man you started to become then. As you said, who knows where this leads. The important thing is do YOU want her back in your life beyond the friendship she seems to want to foster?
It's almost like that process Michelle describes of the WAS noticing the changes we make just took your xw a LONG time to complete.
It's that time is needed to demonstrate consistency and overcome the completely reasonable concern that such fast changes may be only to re-attract the WAS, but I also think more importantly, that genuine changes take time to become second nature. How many posts have you read where LBSs immediately declare their changes despite a lifetime of habit contrary to those changes? When the changes are genuine, they show themselves unknowingly in other things one says and does, and *that's* what the WAS picks up on, I think.
Over the past few months, it was that kind of feedback I got from K... that she felt she didn't know me anymore, that I had become this different guy, and I wasn't doing anything other than tell her a bit about what I was doing here and there. But the changes showed through somehow.
I put away backsliding and venting over a year ago. I adopted a zen like attitude. I turned the focus on myself and was fortunate to really get some things going in my life. All this has a part in it too.
There's also the much overlooked fact that it's NOT just changes in the LBS that may re-attract the WAS, it's the change in CIRCUMSTANCES that really does it. The circumstantial changes can be the LBS's having gotten a life, for example. And also, it has to do with the WAS... where are they at? What have they learned? What kind of person are they? Is the love still there or was it completely stomped out?
The important thing is do YOU want her back in your life beyond the friendship she seems to want to foster?
No, not really. There are some changes in her, but not enough.
Funny how she told me early on that she was recognizing her part in our breakup and realized her conflict avoidance was partly at fault and was learning to now finally speak her mind in her new relationship. Let's see, she must've told me that back in summer of '04. Someone back then advised me that K may only THINK she's doing so, that her new relationship has her believing she's moved forward simply because there were changes in her life from one partner and life to another. Then in our chats a couple of days ago, there she is telling me her conflict avoidance is a problem still. See? The OP/new relationship can really be a diversion from working on one's self, since not much self-work is needed to make infatuation or a panacea work.
Hey NYS, I'm so happy to see you!! And with good news no less. I just happened to see your sceen name, and I sort of did a double take.
Even though you say K would have to change a great deal more for you to want more than friendship with her, it seems that you will at the very least, get the closure and healing that you need. I'm glad you're back friend!
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Quote: How many posts have you read where LBSs immediately declare their changes despite a lifetime of habit contrary to those changes?
Ah, back a scant few days and already managed to help me by accident, lol.
I stand up and raise my hand. I am one of those people, or rather, folks around here seem to think I am. I made dramatic, immediate changes when faced with my sitch and believed they were real, only now to realize that while some were, others will need a bit more work to become permanent. I love the bit about the unconscious "picking up" the WAS does. I think that's what a lot of people fail to realize, that it's not an overt response to overt actions that usually signals the real changes, it's the subtle changes that occur in each of us that both trigger and signify the meaningful, lasting changes.
Quote: There's also the much overlooked fact that it's NOT just changes in the LBS that may re-attract the WAS, it's the change in CIRCUMSTANCES that really does it.
True. That is why I believe so much in time's role in most of these sitches. It's not that you have to sit by and wait, but knowing that circumstances WILL change, they always do, helps you keep hope in terms of the R and if you continue on your personal path of growth, circumstances may become such that opportunity will be there for reconciliation.
Quote: The OP/new relationship can really be a diversion from working on one's self, since not much self-work is needed to make infatuation or a panacea work.
Amen. That's why when the WAS finally returns, often they are far behind the WAS in terms of emotional development and self awareness.
Thanks again for the return to chaos. Your voice is a welcome one.
and then some so it's nice that you return to let people know that even after it's "over" it's not really over.