Quote: I don't think it's something you do every day. However, I do think that it shuld be a part of your marriage.
because the alternative is bringing up children, cleaning house, cooking, shopping and then children leaving home which brings us to another interesting phenomenon empty nest syndrome just when you thought it was over after MLC along comes another test??!!
Well, today was a pretty unusual day. W was a little flirty on and off but the kids were always around so she kept some distance between us most of the time. I try to maintain an even keeled attitude but I also like to be part of the flirting and joking too.
Well, we went shopping for a water fountain to put in front of the house and she was appreciative of it, since I paid for it of course. She's been doing little things to make the house 'look nicer' and I think she is more comfortable being 'mom' and 'homemaker' sometimes. And she's feeling less inhibited when it comes to spending 'family' money on things for the house. She's also not in any panic about the fact that her business is barely making enough money to pay the weekly rent at the Salon.
We had D15's 'new' boyfriend over for dinner and at the table W and I exchanged many glances at each other. He was extremely dull and we give him maybe 3 weeks. She's been going through them about every 2-3 months. Isn't it great to be 15?
When we watched a DVD later, just she and I, she cuddled with me and asked me to brush her hair. It's kinda hard to do when she's laying on me but she likes it and it's one of her 'Love Languages' - touch. When she 'told' me to brush her hair I jokingly said 'you think you can just tell me what to do?" and she playfully said "Sure I can, I can make you do anything". Of course I gave her some ribbing about that, and that she has no control over me. It was funny and playful conversation.
So we sat and I brushed her hair. Well, after a bit she sat up and no longer cuddled. My sense was that she'd gotten what she wanted and was backing off a little. No problem. We watched the rest of the movie, occasionally making eye contact during a funny part.
Well, it's the nite before Easter and we always fill up plastic eggs with candy and hide them around the house for the kids to find. So we did that, and then it was almost midnite so we were ready for bed.
Before we went to bed W was standing in front of me and reminded me (pleasantly) that Easter is 'sort of' the anniversary of when we met. You see, many years ago I was part of a volunteer group in L.A. that did things for the inner city kids. It was really a bunch of Yuppies but in spite of their sillyness and 'socializing' I actually had fun with the kids we met. Well, we went to this school for kids who are poor and someone had to wear the Easter Bunny suit. Nobody would volunteer and I was new to the group and thought "Geeze, what a bunch of arrogant people" and I took the suit and put it on.
This cute girl came over to me while I was trying to tie the bowtie while in the suit, and big bunny hands were not working out. She tied it for me and helped me adjust the fit of the suit. I remember thinking that she was pretty cute and I had seen her at a meeting before but not really noticed her.
Anyway, I had a lot of fun being the Easter Bunny for these kids and I even have a picture of me in the suit with some of the kids and - you guessed it - my wife-to-be is in the group too.
It wasn't until another event a few weeks later that I actually talked to her while washing pots and pans - and learned we had a lot of common interests. I asked her out, and the rest is history. So that's our 'Easter' story.
She also reminded me that she had actually met me at a previous meeting where I was in charge of setting up the Easter event and she remembers thinking how 'obnoxious' I was, and cocky too. I said that was probably what she liked about me because I had a real personality. She made some more jokes about it and then said she was going to bed. I reached out and put my hands on her face and pulled her to me, kissing her. She sort of responded, but was pretty neutral.
So she went to go brush her teeth and go to bed, and I went to my room.
I see right now that the biggest obstacle I have is that I often feel very uncomfortable around her. I know that if I could truly drop all the barriers and protections of myself and really be me, be comfortable with her, that she would respond.
But, I'm just not confident. I realize that it's partly because I still think of her and OM which makes it hard for me to trust her again. And I'm still in the mode where I see her as 'leaving'. I know a lot of the anxiety is also from the fact that I am still working on getting out of the depression I was in. It's only been a little over 5 months. This is so hard though, I feel like I'm being 'auditioned' for the role of 'lover' and I'm not yet 'well enough' to play that role. My anxiety levels are all over the place and even though I have lots of Xanax it's still difficult for me to keep it in check.
I know that SHE isn't going to do anything to help ME. She's looking for that man she used to know to come back. I'm close, but I'm not fun very often. And there are times where I still come off as 'needy'.
And, she is looking for that 'passion' she wants from me.
I'm hoping that she's patient enough and I'm able to get past these fears. I think she does want this to work out because the family life we have is very comfortable and safe for her. Other than the 'flirting' she doesn't really act like she has feelings for me. Just a playmate for her.
We'll see. Easter's tomorrow and we usually have fun in the morning. Hopefully she and I will have some time together and she'll want to be closer.
An ok day so far. Did lots of gardening and spring type stuff outside around the house. Set up the water fountain we bought yesterday.
SInce the kids were around W was distanced. A couple times we touched but not much. SHe called her mom to wish her a happy easter and her mom asked her if we were getting back together. Interesting that she would do that. W told her we were still separated, seing a counselor and that we're building a positive relationship so then if we are in new relationships in the future we'll get along.
W told ME that her mom told her that a neighbor of theirs got divorced and then started getting along better afterwards. So I mentined that 1/3 of people who get divorced often get back together because one or both of them do the work needed to sustain a marriage, and 2/3 regret it at some point. She didn't have a reply.
Later I came up behind her and tried to be closer and she said 'that's not it'. I said well how will I know what IS 'it' (the passionate moves) if you don't tell me something?
She said "I don't think I can 'tell' you, it either is there or it isn't and I don't know what to do to rekindle it"
I said "well we can get some advice on how to do it" and she said "yes we can" but didn't seem too enthusiastic.
It sure is not going very well. She's still pretty neutral. Doesn't seem to feel much, rarely reaches out to me. I'm sure part of it is me. I'm not feeling confident and I truly don't know what to do.
But then again, she doesn't reach out much either. She's 'expecting' it to 'just happen'. Yet yesterday I saked her what she wanted and she said "A vacation in Hawaii, Passion, and world peace" I said "I can work on the first two but the third is a bit harder" and she said well I'll take the first two. Now earlier in the day we had been looking at the time share I own and the Hawaii locations.
So it's like she wants to 'plan' that we'll be together for a while but isn't really doing anything to make it happen. SHe's just 'showing up'. Yet she's also doing a lot of things to make the house look nicer outsides. Planting flowers, and we bought a $400 water fountain yesterday. So, it's like "are you planning on living here so you're doing all this?" or is she just 'trying it on" at my expense?
I really think I need to withdraw a bit, go gray, something. Become less acommadating. I don't know.
I know I am not ready for this part of the challenge. Maybe it's too soon. I'm barely out of depression and post-affair blues.
You know what I want to know? When SHE has to do something to build this passion and romance. Her wanting it from you is normal, natural and all that....but it is NOT fair for her to expect to just sit by the wayside waiting for the prince in the white horse that is within you to come by and sweep her off her feet. I can tell you right now that if she doesn't put forth some effort also, you are just spinning your wheels. It will never work because she will never feel what it is she wants to feel. She has to participate in order to feel anything.
A thought that went through my mind that may be something for you to ponder (but not necessarily the right thing to do) would be for you to just say the equivilant of what she's said before. That this would be so much easier with someone new and you aren't sure you want to put for all thsi effort when it is clear that she isn't putting for ANY effort.
Email & MSN Messenger: Becca_1975@msn.com
Yesterday Is History
Tomorrow is a Mystery.
Today is a Gift.
That Is Why It Is Called "The Present"
Quote: You know what I want to know? When SHE has to do something to build this passion and romance. Her wanting it from you is normal, natural and all that....but it is NOT fair for her to expect to just sit by the wayside waiting for the prince in the white horse that is within you to come by and sweep her off her feet. I can tell you right now that if she doesn't put forth some effort also, you are just spinning your wheels. It will never work because she will never feel what it is she wants to feel. She has to participate in order to feel anything.
I agree with you. Tonite I just went in my room after D10 went to bed and was reading. W walked by my room and didn't even poke her head in. I waited about 15 minutes and went downstairs thinking she'd be watching tv and want my company. All the lights were off and she was in her room. So I knocked on the door and went in and she was reading also. She said it looked like I was reading and so she decided to do the same.
I said "well I want to make sure you didn't get the impression I was blowing you off or something." and then she went into how that was 'controlling' and other stuff like that. I said "No, it's communicating my concerns that I may have been rude to you. We're supposed to communicate in a relationship." So she sort of smiles and says 'ok, but I really am reading this book (Memoirs of A Geisha) and it's got to a good part so let's stop communicating." I said that I could see she needed some down time since we were all together all day doing stuff around the yard. So I smiled, said ok, leaned down and kissed her on the lips (she weakly kissed back) and said goodnite and left the room.
Quote: A thought that went through my mind that may be something for you to ponder (but not necessarily the right thing to do) would be for you to just say the equivilant of what she's said before. That this would be so much easier with someone new and you aren't sure you want to put for all thsi effort when it is clear that she isn't putting for ANY effort.
Yeah, it crosses my mind too. She puts in a 'little' effort but is expecting to have this torrent of emotions show up, and they aren't. She usually doesn't act comfortable when I put my arms around her, but then sometimes she'll be very receptive. She responds to my compliments very well, especially when I complement her looks, which is something she feels very insecure about. I can always get a genuine smile from her then and she'll ask me well, what about whem I first get up in the morning? Or what about after I do gardening. And I'll tell her sincerely that I think she's always beautiful.
So, obviously I can talk her love language but the 'touching' one doesn't work because she won't let it. And kissing is very superficial.
And, she told her mom we are still 'separated'. No mention of 'trying'. In fact I suspect there is nobody but she and I and Counselor who are aware of the 'trying' going on. I believe she is 'willing' to do something to 'rekindle' the flame if it could be described to her WHAT actions to take. Then if it doesn't 'rekindle' she can say she tried and not feel guilty.
My biggest problem is me. I know I am acting a little like a hurt puppy because of the rejection I get. It's like "If you don't care and don't really WANT to love me then why are you here?" She sure seemed like it 2 weeks ago when she came to my room and asked me to try with her after I told her she could move out this summer and I wouldn't miss her - or be her 'best friend'.
Maybe I expect too much. Maybe I am putting out some energy or signals that I'm uncomfortable and unsure of myself. That sucks.
Realistically, 2 weeks ago she SAID she wanted to come out of the tunnel. But she really didn't come out. She poked her face out and that's it. She is not dedicated to making this work. She is WAITING for it to work.
Regarding telling her it would be easier to start with someone new... I'll talk to COunselor on tuesday about that idea. It seems like 'hardball' again. One thing Counselor said is play 'hard to get', make her have to pursue me and work on being 'attractive' that way. But what does that mean? It seems like there is a fine line between ignoring her and being distant. It seems to me that before I give her the 'you aren't making an effort' speech I should try to detach a little and see what she does. Perhaps if I just stop trying to hug or kiss her or be close in any way it will make her miss what she's been getting. Then if she asks me about it I'll tell her that the message she sends me is that she want's all these feelings to magically appear without her making any effort.
She seems to like being 'stay at home mom' because I haven't heard her talk 'panic' about her business not making any money, which it would have to if she was going to move out. Rememberm Counselor said she didn't believe W really wanted to work full time, that she'd rather live the life we had been living - minus the difficult parts between us. Part time massage worker, part time stay at home mom. No worries because I made sure we were ok even when I wasn't ok.
It seems like she is gettng into that role, just not the 'wife' role.
And, there is another possibilty. She just doesn't love me and isn't going to. Yeah, she's called me 'hon' or 'babe' often lately but that's the only 'signal' I get that she feels anything. Terms of endearment are not love. And she flirts sometimes. She's very moody.
I'm not feeling very good about this. This marriage is not being saved. It's all one sided. And it hurts.
Something to consider about the feelings coming back.
I know I am not ready for this part of the challenge. Maybe it's too soon. I'm barely out of depression and post-affair blues.
Maybe since you are not they dont feel real to her. Women can sense this. And also:
Maybe she does not want to show you those feelings because of the guilt of the OM. Even though you might have forgiven her and she has heard you. She needsa to forgive herself for the OM.
Frank, we are in the exact same place. Have you kept up with my sitch? My W told me the same thing on Friday night, that our life was passionless and boring and she needed more passion and less boredom.
I have been spending the last couple weeks trying to figure out just how to DO what she wants done, especially since, like your W, she can't tell me what she wants me to DO.
As usual, I think this is another of those times when they think that if they actually TELL us what to do, then it makes it less valuable or interesting to them. In some ways I get it because one of the things they are looking for in us, that they THINK they had with OM is that sense of connectedness and when we demonstrate that we can stir those passions in them without a script, it's powerful for them.
The good news is that your W saw a demonstration of how it can be "created" in that movie (which, BTW, W and I saw both the original and the re-make. The original is much better) and I hope she will be open to any attempt you make.
One of the strongest feelings I have and becca (i think it was her) stated it is that how come our W's get to sit back and just wait for us to find the magic button? I suppose it's more of the same we have faced thus far in being the only ones trying to rebuild the marriage. I don't know, but it is frustrating.
The only thing I can tell you Frank is that I have found a couple things that seem to be working with my W, similar to your W's hair brushing, and as I continue to do these things, unasked, she seems to be warming up to me. I guess, try to identify the little things that give your W small moments of passionate feeling and build on those.
Quote: Maybe she does not want to show you those feelings because of the guilt of the OM. Even though you might have forgiven her and she has heard you. She needsa to forgive herself for the OM.
Just a thought.
Shark
That may very well be part of it. I know when we had a talk about 'relationships and trust' she said she knew it was hard for me to drop my defenses towards her "after what I did".
Of course, she also says that since I am a Scorpio, trust doesn't come easily to me.
I think also she wants her life "back" but also wants all the things she knows she was missing from the relationship - and doesn't seem to see the damage she's done to me that makes it difficult for me to respond. SHe also doesn't seem to really know how she 'feels' other than 'not in love'.
Maybe I just need to accept that she just isn't feeling love for me any more. It's just gone. I mean, it's not like I haven't done enough to show my love for her. She just doesn't have it. I really think letting her go is the best thing.
