ok, I left it with her needing space tonite. It's dinnertime and I offer to go for take out. WHen I come back W is watching some movie with Richard Gere and Susan Sarandon - I think it's called 'Dance with me'. She tells me I have to watch it with her sometime because there is a scene that I have to see - so I will 'understand' another 'need' she has. She won't tell me what it is, just says I have to see the scene. ok.
We go walk the dogs, and talk. A pleasant time. Full moon tonite too. As we're walking and she's talking about when we took ballroom dancing classes about 9 months ago and did we remember any steps. So, here we are on a busy street on the sidewalk and I say "Sure, I remember" and put my arm around her center and hold her hand and do one of the square steps with her - close. She was surprised I remembered it because I really didn't want to go to the class back then - it was her thing and I 'went along'. But I did pay attention...
I wondered what the people driving down the street must have thought of us though...
Later we were at home and I was standing looking into the living room and she came up behind me and put her arms around my neck. I was totally taken off guard. I did put my hands on hers and hold them for about a minute until she let go of me and walked away.
Very strange stuff.
Later, we're watching TV and she's actually looking at me with a sexy, flirty attitude and making 'innuendos'. I played along since one of the things Counselor said to do was 'build sexual tension'. Well, it was built!
Bedtime came and she basically went to her room. I came in and said good nite but did NOT linger. So, she went back and forth and back and forth tonite. Now she's back to 'detached' again.
Well, it was fun flirting. The woman makes no sense. She should just give it up and throw herself at me if she knows whats good for her.
Tomorrow she has to go all day for Jury duty so I won't see her at all till evening. I am betting she will be on the 'cool' side again. The warmness tonite was nice and also a surprise.
Quote: So, here we are on a busy street on the sidewalk and I say "Sure, I remember" and put my arm around her center and hold her hand and do one of the square steps with her - close. She was surprised I remembered it because I really didn't want to go to the class back then - it was her thing and I 'went along'. But I did pay attention...
I wondered what the people driving down the street must have thought of us though...
I think everyone passing by that saw that scene must have thought you guys were a perfect, happy couple.
I also think the dogs were terribly embarrassed at the behavior of their humans .
Frank, I pulled some things from the last several posts...
Quote: I suppose she is 'trying out' being 'mom' and 'wife' to see how she likes it. Each thing we do is a test to see if it will 'be the same'. It won't. The negatives in our past life are gone.
I have read this in books and a lot here, about how when they come back to the marriage, they test us to see if we have really changed. I wonder how much they ACTUALLY do this. I mean I can't imagine my W, especially now, when the emotions are running high, testing me in any conscious way. I know that things she does, or that I do, act as reinforcement of what we perceive but are they really designed tests? I suspect that very little of what our wives are doing is preplanned testing of us. I would bet if anything its more about them allowing themselves exposure to certain things and judging their own reaction to it. I think THAT's the test.
Quote: One of the things she has never shown me is the desire to DO WHATEVER IT TAKES to make a relationship work. She would rather quit. But quitting didn't work out so far for her.
I think this goes to my previous statement. For the most part, my W has been trying to figure out the most pleasing, easy way out of the pain and suffering she's been enduring for the past couple years. Of course, it did take courage to take on the OM and move away from the marriage but I don't think they see it that way. They may still see it as something that "just happened" and thus still consider it easy. Coming back is easy too because it's what spares the most people pain and that's an easy way for a compassionate woman/person to behave. Again, what they are doing, coming back to us, is FAR from easy and they soon figure that out. So now, there are no easy ways out, or in and the one left to them, to simply walk away is about the only one that seemed hard from the get go.
I am rambling but I think my point is that for our W's, even though it's what they say they want, actually leaving the M is the hardest thing they have to contemplate because it's so complicated and filled with such real finality/pain unlike any other course of action they could take, including the A.
Quote: So, I don't know. Maybe she won't be able to recover the feelings we once had.
So long as she keeps clinging to the idea that love in the confines of a marriage should be filled with fairy dust, sparks and chills down the spine all the time, SHE will never recover her feelings for you. It's when she realizes that beneath, or beside that level of "in love" lies a wonderful, lasting love that is both from the heart and mind, that she will be hit HARD with feelings for you. When she truly sees the man you have become AND that you are willing to be HER man, transformed from someone who needed so much to someone do capable of giving love and attention to her.
Quote: you really must do other stuff just as crazy on the spur of the moment - it appeared to work
I agree. I am doing this with my W. I have not really posted much about it, but I am doing little dances around the house, picking her up and carrying her to bed, etc. She really seems to enjoy me being spontaneous AND physical with her, not in any sexual way, but in a playful way. It is a 180 for me and I would suspect for you as well.
Well, W and I watched a movie she had actually watched last nite and wanted to see again so she could 'show me' a scene in it. The movie is called "Shall We Dance" with Richard Gere, Susan Sarandon and Jennifer Lopez.
Shall We Dance is about a married businessman who takes the train daily to work. One night, at one of the train stops, he sees a beautiful woman looking out the window of her dance studio. This went on for several trips on the train and each time the woman appeared to be sad. The business man became intrigued so he ends up taking dance lessons.
The businessman kept his lessons a secret to his wife and daughter who eventually noticed some changes in him -- he was happier. He was happier not because he was having an affair with the dance instructor (he isn't), but because he started to enjoy dancing and now his daily "business routine" is changed for the better. In the end, it brings more passion into his life and his wife and he have a better relationship because of this.
It was a pretty good movie. It's actually a remake of a 1995 Japanese film and most reviewers felt it wasn't as good. I liked it.
So during the movie (54 minutes into it exactly) W points out to me a specific scene that has some meaning to her. In the scene, Gere is trying to learn the Rumba with a woman student and the woman is very unhappy because he doesn't "get it".
Lopez walks up to them and she says to Gere in an annoyed tone: "The Rumba, is a vertical expression of a horizontal wish."
She then holds the woman dancer from behind and runs her had down her side and says very seriously "You have to hold her, like the skin on her thigh is your reason for living."
She spins the woman away from her, holding her by the hand and says: "Let her go, like your heart's being ripped from your chest."
She pulls her back to her and says: "Pull her back, like you're going to have your way with her, right here on the dance floor."
"And then finish, like she's ruined you for life." And the woman drops to the floor.
So. W says to me "That's what I've been trying to tell you I want. I couldn't explain it to you but when I watched this the other night I knew it was a way to show you what I need to feel with you. That's what is missing from my life."
Then she says "Can you do that with me? Because that's why I can't have sex. I need to feel that feeling with you."
Well. I am kind of stunned. I can see her point, this is what 'passion' is all about in a relationship. And I think she has realized that it can be created, not that it 'just happens'.
So, I tell her that I understand what she means, and that I'd like to feel that passion too, because that's what it means to be alive.
In the movie, Richard Gere's character wanted that in his life and didn't know how to create it. That's what he learned by the dance experience - but only because he met Jennifer Lopez, who was already living a passionate life.
So I'm sitting here for the past hour thinking to myself, "how DO you find that inside yourself?" I've been in my down state for so long I don't remember what it's like to feel that way. I know I DID a long time ago. I remember a time when I COULD make W feel that way. Where does it go? Have all of us here lost that part of ourselves? If we had kept it going all these years, would we not have a WAS to deal with?
I think that it's a part of what was lost from many of our marriages and our WAS left to go find it.
So I'm thinking to myself "That's all I have to do, rekindle the passionate side of myself and it'll be all better". But, I'm also thinking that I don't know how to do it. Talk about lost. Talk about being tested. And learning to be 'alive' again. So, add this to my list of challenges.
1) Survive W going to OM to find what's missing in her life. 2) Keep family together while also getting my own ass out of a 5 year depression while W is in La La land. 3) Pick up wifes broken life after OM turns out to be a user. 4) Help W financially so she can start her own business with the knowledge that she wants to be able to leave me. 5) Do the 'after the last resort' hardball and tell her to leave, causing her to do an unexpected 180 and decide to 'try' to make it work. 6) Now, be patient with her while she is waiting for ME to 'do something' that will open HER up to intimacy and a more passionate life that she want's to live. 7) Somehow get rid of the last of my hurt, my fears and build up confidence and create a passionate life with a wife who is waiting for ME to make this all happen by essentially seducing her.
And to think that just 6 months ago my life was simpler. I hated it, I hated me, I was depressed, withdrawn from the world and generally predictable. Who would have thought it would be where it is today?
So, I'm sitting here thinking "I can't do this. I don't know where those feelings are. Where they went to." And, I'm still living with the barrier between us. I can't just drop it that easily.
But, W has told me exactly what she needs to be in love with me again. It doesn't get any better than that, now does it? And I would LIKE my life and my relationship to be that way, more alive than it was. Who wouldn't?
The hard part of course, is getting there. I'm going to really have to work on this one. I hope it's the last thing that I need to do.
Maybe Rumba classes would help? Together with your W.
NG and I took up Salsa classes, just for fun, but it did give us an avenue to flirt with each other, something to do together and it certainly drove ow crazy
by doing things spontaneously (dancing on the sidewalk) eating ice-cream for breakfast drinking champagne beside an open fireplace sleeping on the beach hiring a limo and going to a theatre show in style
I don't know what does your wife and self like but have never done picnic in the loungeroom having glamour photo's done
flying somewhere for the weekend booking a flight in a hot air balloon walking on the beach at midnight learning to snorkel going rock climbing I don't know
I havn't seen the movie - but I get the gist
the idea is to not become the staid old married couple to do things together to have fun
there must be hundreds of things that would be cool to the both of you things you don't do because there is always tomorrow what if there was no tomorrow what would you do' learn to speak Japanese learn how to build a tranquil buddhist garden
there must be something - build the romance - notes in bag, under her pillow, little chocolates hidden it is easter after all
what would I love to go to the theatre in a limo wearing a long dress and then go to the beach and drink champagne while eating chocolate covered strawberries
yes I know everything I like costs money but there must be lots of things I guess this stage is the GAL together big time and have one each so you can talk about it
Frank I hear your delima. In many ways I think I am sort of in the same place myself with my WAW. She is waiting for this feeling to just sweep over her. I have a different take on it though. Is this not the type of fairytale that our books tell us does not last? Is this not the first 6 month feeling that she is chasing? My fear for me - and for you - is that it just can never last at that level and unless our W's realize that they will chase this forever and never maintain it. We all need to have passion in our lives. We need many of the same type of things. It's just that I'm not sure they come in the packages that our W's want. I think that might be why you and I don't have much of a clue how to give them what they are looking for. I really do think it's because we cannot - not for longer than 6 to 12 months anyhow if we are to believe people like MWD and the others that caution against the very thing that your W is looking for.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Quote: I have a different take on it though. Is this not the type of fairytale that our books tell us does not last? Is this not the first 6 month feeling that she is chasing? My fear for me - and for you - is that it just can never last at that level and unless our W's realize that they will chase this forever and never maintain it. We all need to have passion in our lives.
I don't think it's something you do every day. However, I do think that it shuld be a part of your marriage. I don't think she is saying "I want to feel this all the time". She just wants to feel it. We all do.
I read your posts. Nice stuff. From the outside looking in I would not pay to attention to the remarks of separation and stuff. They hurt I know but what would you expect but a little back and forth. I am sure of all people you know that healing takes forward progress and then backsliding. So maybe in one ear and out the other would be a better solution than getting upset. Eaier said than done.
Something interesting happened to me yesterday. I thought you would be the only person to ask.
I just finished my 2004 and 2055 tax and I owe for 2004 and getting money back for 2005. So my wife calls me and talks to me about the money that owed for 2004. I said well their is a mistake so Ill have to correct it with our accountant but it should lower the amount we owe. She said great but then asked if I could pay my half?
Well that did not go over bad in me getting angery but it did set me off. So down the R talks we go just a little. I was good but this would have been perfect. I should have said OK no problem let me finish with the corrections and then we will meet and pay it together and be done with it.
I did not say that. I said other things regarding what the term "Half" means to me and I am sure you can add the rest.
One of her commnets to me was, "Why couldn't you just say, Ill take care of it (my portion) and not do the rest (talking about R)?"
So the conversation ended ok but I did ask her something which I should not have but...
I asked her if she was healing at all? She said "I am healing a little" She said it not verey nice but not mean either. She wanted to say it to me so i would have hope. the only two answers are no and yes. No this far along means more separation and a yes means hang in there.
Now I could be wrong but that is how I see it. What do you think? What was she doing with the money? Was she being an adult and wanting to be 50% of the R by asserting herself which I did not get and handle incorrectly.
And the comment that she is healing a little.
I have NEVER heard that before so was taken back by it. But, you know is it good bad a step in the right direction or nothing.
I also in the conversation told her that I would not sign another lease come June 2. Which later in the day I said I was sorry and that was I being manipulative and controlling and that I did not mean it. And that is something I am really trying to change for myself in that saying things I don’t mean just to influence the other person and that I was not going anywhere and that I would not leave her side or the kids. When I finished talking she was very at peace and said thank you.
Another interesting thing happened yesterday in between my talks with W
I called her when she was at Target yesterday and she picks up her cell and is frustrated with the kids and their behavior. Now since I have done this before she knew what I was going to do when I asked to speak to the boys. She hands them the phone I talk to them and she gets back on the phone. I tell her they should be better for you know. She says thank you and we finish small and talk and hang up. A few hours later (this was the time I had the above conversation with her regarding not leaving and standing by her) I asked how the boys did and she said better and thank you again. I would think if she was planning on leaving she would not want me to handle the boys when they are on her time and that she would not want to show me that she needs me to help. Its tuff to know from a WAW what is and what is not. Comments?
Shark
P.S. I agree with AmyC. I think you really can and did save this M. You never really know but the odds are in your favor and I was so happy to read what your C said in your very first posts. That what you do will make the outcome positive or negative.
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