Hi all! Had an interesting "discussion" this morning that I thought I would get your comments on, as I am confused and don't really know how to approach things to resolve it. This may be better in another board, but since I trust the advice I get here, I'll try it here first.
This morning, my wife and I had one of our typical intimacy fights. I was hoping for something, my wife said take a hike.. (not those words exactly, but you KWIM) (getting better that this abbreviation stuff)
One of the things she is upset about is our differing views on how a marriage should be. She is saying I have a June Cleaver syndrome. To understand this, let me give you a brief overview of our backgrounds:
I grew up in a very happy, stable home. No divorce, no crazy stuff. Both of my parents loved my sister and I and they loved each other. We were religious, we were raised with morals and most of all in a happy, stable home. When my dad came home from work, my mom would give him a hug, we had dinner at the table, they would regularly spend time just the two of them.. There was a very nice sense of balance and comfort with that foundation and so, naturally, I see my own family in much of the same way. I don't consider myself a chauvinist in any way. I'm not like "wife cook and clean" or those crazy e-mails about women's rolls in the 50's, but I do want a structured, balanced home life.
My wife on the other hand, was labeled "a mistake" from day 1, as she was an accident from a 13 and 14 year old. When her mom was turning 20... my wife was 7... 7! That just blows my mind. Her mom refused to give her up for adoption insisting that she could just do things herself and needless to say my wife had to grow up fast as she was thrown from one crazy situation to another. Finally, when she was 14, she said "enough" and moved in with her grandparents and tried to find some stability. Her mom then sold all of her stuff and moved away, never to be part of her life again. (Still to this day, I have never met either of her parents). My wife went through many unstable years before deciding to turn herself around in her early 20's and work to leave a clean, religious life. She met me when she was 27, appeared stable, solid and was very family oriented.
So that is our opposite backgrounds. Which takes us to trying to deal with each other nowadays. One of our hang-ups is what we THINK a home life should be. When I think of home and family, I think of what I had growing up and work to set up that kind of home and I use that as a model. But she has craziness and chaos to think of in her life. There is no model to turn to for her. Like she said this morning "How am I supposed to build a healthy foundation for our family, when I have no foundation to begin from?"
This leads to many arguments... I come home, and would like a hug. My wife thinks that is nuts and totally unnecessary. Even after years of "just going along with it for my sake" she just thinks the whole thing is stupid, where as it is important to me. I still talk to my parents on a very regular basis. They live 6 states away, so I only see them once a year, but I talk maybe once a week. To her this is ridiculous. I should be independent and not need those ties. Even our sex life.. I think we should have one and that is a vital thing in a marriage. She thinks it is unnecessary and just a dumb physical act that bears no true meaning. REAL Intimacy comes from establishing a connection (non sexual) together, becoming independent from my family and by connecting in every way other than sex.
Add to that all the typical "Me HD" and "her ND" issues that we all deal with and we have a mess. So her concern is that I have this built up need for "June Cleaver" and that nothing less will satisfy me. She says she has no interest in doing that and feels it is unhealthy. She thinks that I have this image of what family life should be and that there is no way she can live up to that image, coming from her background.
I agree and disagree. I agree, I want a healthy, balanced, stable home life, like I had growing up. I want a wife who loves me and is concerned about me as a person and about my happiness in life. Does she have to act like June Cleaver? No, goodness no. But we do need a stable home, putting out spouses need above our own. But can my wife live up to that? That is where we differ. I think "of course she can!!! It's actually quite easy! You make a happy home, you treat your kids fairly, you put your husbands needs above your own and make him feel loved." To me, it all seems very simple. It's how I work to treat her. But that is because I have the mental model. To her it just seems pointless. She says she just can't live like that when she has no model.
Now, she doesn't want my parents to visit this summer, as in her mind they embody everything that is wrong with me and our relationship and she just cant be around that. (I didn't know stability and family happiness were such a bad thing). She also doesn't know how we can continue to be married when we have such different pasts and no common base in what we consider to be family. She gets so frustrated with me and keeps saying "just try to see things from my point of view here". I can't! I don't have the same life glasses that she does and will never have them. I can't see things in my brain from the perspective of no foundation and chaos. I can't equate. At the same time, I don't think she can equate with m situation and points as she can;t wear my life glasses.
So what do we do? Who caves and goes along with the other. My wife now feels resentment that she has spent the last 8 years trying to pull herself into my definition of family, and still feels no happier in it. But we have 3 kids. I am not about to take them into HER definition of family.. I don't even know what that would be. Not to sound one sided to my point.. but with kids and a desire for what is best for them.. how can there be ANOTHER way besides happiness and stability.
I just don't know how to solve this... I know I am pretty much held hostage here... I can either agree with her, do what she wants, not ever have that stupid sex again (her words) and keep my family intact. or I can continue to push towards what I see as a happy family, husband and wife who love each other and do things for each other and lose it all. But again, from my stable family life, I just don't know how to process this.
Your wife not being willing to do very simple things (give you a hug when you come home) nor bigger things (like have your parents for a visit), both of which are reasonable and very important to you . . . is unacceptable.
You need to call her on her b.s. When she brings up the whole "model" thing, get her off of this red herring by saying "I understand you didn't see a lot of that growing up, but really, do you really need an 'instruction manual' to give your husband a HUG when he comes home? Or do you just not WANT to do it?"
Hate to sound pessimistic, but I really don't see a lot of hope here.
I have always.. ALWAYS been full of hope. But for the first time, now that I am starting to see her real issues with the marriage, that hope is strating fall apart. Slowly get's dwindled away.
To me, marriage counseling is a great way to work thorugh this, but as I have mentioned before, she will not go. Flat out refuses to have anything to do with it.
I have been contemplating doing something drastic... something big.. to try to get her into counseling, but I don't know what that would be yet...
With as low as her self esteem is, if I went to drastic I fear she'd just say "fine, see, I told you you'd leave me one day, everyone else has." and be done with it and just go into self pity mode.
The only way counseling would work is if she went in WANTING to be there and desiring help from someone and I just don't know what it would take to get her to that point.. of actually WANTING help...
I feel your pain, buddy, I really do. My wife also refused to go to C, saying "I don't need anyone to tell me I'm crazy." The sad truth is, until you BOTH acknowledge there is a problem, and BOTH commit to working on it -- persistently -- you can't hope for any real change.
1. Do your homework and pick out a good MC. There are some posts on that subject here on SSM. 2. Make an appointment, and do your best to make it during a time when she is available. Take responsibility to have the children cared for, so she can't just say, 'but I have to watch the kids.' 3. Tell her about the appointment. Be prepared to dodge the sh!t. 4. No matter what she says, go to the appointment. Yes, even if you go alone. 5. Repeat steps 2,3,4.
Do you think it might help to approach C by asking the W if she thinks your kids will benefit from living in a disfunctional home? Did her growing up in one benefit her?
I'm thinking of you saying something to the effect that you don't know which of your M ideals is the "right" one but you both owe it to the kids to find out. It might make her stop to think. I'm guessing that she already knows her idea won't hold up in C, but at least you'll be approaching it for the kids rather than against her.
I second the advice here and think you need to takes as forceful action as necessary to get her to the counselor. So what if she thinks you are leaving her? I see 4 good reasons to do this:
1. Rattling her cage will get her attention and move her off-center, thus allowing you and her to begin some growth. 2. She will come to learn (fairly quickly I think) that you are not leaving her but in fact are so committed to her that you are willing to take such strong measures 3. Waiting for her to WANT to go is pointless. How can she ever come to want something she cannot even comprehend? Isn’t this the very same argument she is throwing at you about being June cleaver, which you can see is groundless? 4. Her issues are so deep you have no other choice. You need a professional.
Lastly, I don’t see why you are so down for your future. Not long ago you were more optimistic that you could find some way to please her and rebuild intimacy. But you were not facing the truth as you are now. But you were happier, but ignorant of the fact you now know. Now you are actually one step further down the road toward healing. Gaining this realization that you need to make a push is no small matter. Give yourself credit.
