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#675092 03/20/06 07:10 AM
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Hello, everyone,

I have been posting to a different board, for a few weeks, but I think I really belong here, since the biggest issue in my face is that my husband is having an affair. I believe he is also in MLC, and he is also currently not living with me. But the affair feels like "the issue" where I need the most help, as it hooks me like nothing else...

Here's my story so far

I would love to hear from more of you who have done this work, particularly in dealing with a H's affair, regarding how to proceed.

Since my husband is having a long-distance affair, I get a lot more time with him right now that she does. I got the Divorce Remedy book right away after I found out about the affair (I only wish I had read it earlier!) The day I found out about my husband's affair, I told him to move out. After reading alot, I realize that may have been a hasty emotional response, but I also think it has been good for me. I have a helluva time getting centered if he is around too much right now. And since I don't want him to see me crying, and I cry more than once every day, I think having "space" has worked for me too.

My husband has gradually warmed up to me as the weeks have gone by. However, he periodically has to remind me that he is "in love" with someone else. He is physically affectionate with me sometimes and aloof other times.(hugs, holding hands, brief kisses sometimes on the lips, sometimes off to the side, etc.) We have not been sexual since the affair started last August, although I did not find out about the affair until January. The OW lives in his country of origin which is a continent away (12 hour flight, 9 hour time difference on the phone). She is also married and has 2 children, and she is still in secret with her spouse. I think the home language thing has been comforting to him. She also swooped into his life when he was really vulnerable due to a major issue with his 11 year old son who lives over there. I missed some important signals that we were in danger as a couple, and was not the best wife I could be at that time either. I would of course like the affair to end immediately, and for my husband to come home. However, he is going to visit her on April 4 for 1 week, and I do not know how to stand it. I have done a ton of work on myself recently, have lost a lot of weight (looking really good) and am keeping busy. I journal and I read all the time on MLC, and DivorceBusting, and improving your marriage, all of it. I am really proud of all I have accomplished, and EVERYONE around me thinks I am amazing. I stay calm and centered around my husband 99% of the time. He even thinks I am being amazing. But sometimes I feel like he wants me to have a fit and get upset (so he would have an excuse to leave? because he doesn't have one right now I am too wonderful) but also sometimes he doesn't trust that the changes are genuine which I guess makes sense since all of this is so new. My anger was a big factor in his emotional departure - he couldn't handle how he felt when I was angry. I think I was quite critical, too, and although I didn't mean to be, he is still telling stories of little things I said that were critical. I am so sad about that. And, I am committed to my new self. I like the results I am seeing in myself. But even if I end up being a better person in my future "with him or without him", I want my husband to come home and I want it to be with him. No foolin'.

So here's where I am confused. It seems like my husband thrives on reassurances from me right now. When I appreciate him consistently, it really makes a difference. And when my actions are helpful and I show interest in working with him or helping him in some way, he seems to really like that (I used to let him do most of the repairs on the house by himself, for example, and now I am helping). But then every once in a while, he has to remind me that I don't have his heart. Today, we were taking a beautiful walk on the beach, and I finally asked him what made him need to tell me again. Because, I told him, unless something has changed, I don't really need to hear it again. I did tear up when I said that, and he apologized and gave me a big hug and held me. I had told him earlier in the day that I was committed to our marriage, and he always seems to really respond to that when I say it, and thanks me with a lot of emotion and gives me a huge hug. He has not asked for a divorce, and doesn't want one. Also, earlier today, we were talking about remodeling the master bedroom (?) and how we'd like it to be. Being that he is currently not living with me, this is confusing. He confuses me all the time. However, if I even hint that he is confused, he seems surprised and says he is not. Might as well not go there. But obviously, he confuses me all the time.

So how do I stomach the fact that he is going to go visit this unfaithful non-sister OW and in all liklihood sleep with her? I HATE the thought of that, it makes me sick. And I cry about it a fair amount. And I pray. However, I have told him I want him to get clear on his choices, and that if he needs to explore this to know what he wants in life, then he should. I want him to choose ME though. I HATE IT!!! I pray every day that he will have a wake up with himself. This is a man who is operating completely out of character in this regard. He has always lived a life of integrity until now. To think he could be a factor causing more pain to that family too, is just devastating. Our family and our close friends are all still reeling too. And my husband is cut off from almost everyone right now (his choice - he's in major retreat).

How long should I be patient? I felt like, because he was so low about his work and what he has accomplished in his life (the MLC stuff I think), and because he is suffering in his mind from my criticisms in the past, that I should be loving, appreciative and helpful whenever possible. But sometimes I am afraid that I should be more removed - I am afraid that my behavior might feel like pursuing. I can't say that I am behaving like a "friendly neighbor", because we have even taken trips together and slept in the same bed, and cuddled etc. during the past month. Is that the wrong approach? I wanted him to have recent memories of how cute and fun I am, before he is hanging out for a romantic tryst with the OW. Am I going about this in the wrong way?

Also, how long should I be patient and do my best (at least on the surface) to ignore his activities with the OW? Because now that it's not a secret, I know when he's going, etc. It feels like it's in my face (although I know it could be worse - she could be here! He better NEVER bring her here...) The idea of an affair in his past is a lot easier for me to make peace with than the idea that he is pursuing someone NOW and will sleep with her in the FUTURE. Can anyone enlighten me?


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PL, I know it must be almost unbearable to wait for your H to leave to go be with OW. You are being remarkably patient and are handling this extremely well.

Quote:

I wanted him to have recent memories of how cute and fun I am, before he is hanging out for a romantic tryst with the OW. Am I going about this in the wrong way?





I don't know. I did the same thing, and actually, on Feb 3, ML to my W the day before she went to move the OM into her apartment -- the only time we have ML since I kicked her out Jan 8. I don't regret it, because I know it confused her and probably took away a lot of the joy of moving him in with her. I made sure that she knew that it was without expectations, though.

I will say that I don't think you are going to be able to stop him from going, and you certainly shouldn't try.

Quote:

But sometimes I am afraid that I should be more removed - I am afraid that my behavior might feel like pursuing.




You've kicked him out and are living separated from him by your choice. As long as you are loving without expectation, I don't think you have to worry about little things seeming like pursuing. He knows that he will have to end the A before he can move back in with you and have a normal marriage again.

On the other hand, you could decide to "go dark" with him for a while. It did me a lot of good to not talk to my W for three weeks, and she got tired of the OM to an extent during that time. It's a risky move, though.


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PositivelyEndearing,

Here I am! See, I followed you didn't I!! That's pursuing behavior if I didn't know it. Must be a crush.

What a tough situation. I have always admired your strength and patience. You are tapping into reserves that most don't realize they have. Whatever your source of strength, absolutely do NOT go away from it. I sense that you may have a spiritual life. I personally think that's healthy--if prayer works for you (as it does for me) then don't stop!

It sounds to me that one of your toughest things right now is the 'in-your-face' reality that is the dual-relationship your H is having. I think you are doing a lot of good in continuing to be positive and pushing the positive buttons. He likes reassurance. So reassure. Great. Good.

You may have done this already, but if you haven't, then try this. Right now you are working hard at meeting all of his needs, even if that means space (that can be a need too). But the consequence of his other R is that your needs are being neglected. You are doing the right things, but it's time to step up a bit maybe. Write down three goals you have. Maybe one would be that he ends his R with this woman. Then another would be to start having a physical relationship with him again. This has to be what YOU want and need. Look at them, then break them down. What would be the first sign that this is happening? Maybe the first sign would be he tells you that he wants to end his R with this woman. Wanting to do something isn't the same as doing something, granted, but it's a step. Rewrite your goals to these smaller, achievable ones.

Now. Have you ever stated your needs? One of my most productive, yet uncomfortable discussions I had with my W was when I moved to the step of stating my needs to her. I had been divorce busting my arse off for weeks and things were getting much better, but I was not getting what I deserved in the R, and it was time to step up. You can't expect to get anything in life unless you ask for it. My W has a big issue with this. She feels (and still does for the most part) that in a healthy R, the partner should be able to sense what the other person's needs are and meet them. If it is something asked for, it loses its meaning. Criminy. Are we still in 7th grade? I want to pull my hair out because this frustrates me to no end, when she absolutely refuses to talk to me about what she wants or needs.

Knowing this, I still forged ahead. My needs were simple and to the point, and were just stepping stones to the three things important to me. One was a need to hear once in a while a feeling or need from her without being prompted. Another was to grab my hand to hold it, so I don't have to pursue. Not all the time, just every now and then so I can be assured in my own way. The first was a stepping stone for getting back our trust and communication. The second was a first step toward repairing our physical intimacy.

I approached her at a time when we were driving to a restaurant for a 'date'. A 10 minute drive, so it could be short, sweet, nonconfrontational and where she wasn't distracted. It was uncomfortable, and the discussion ended up turning to her discomfort at 'requested' needs being insincere. She said she didn't want to feel 'forced' to hold my hand, as it wouldn't mean anything to her or me. I just replied that when it's something you are choosing to do when you don't feel like it, it is a sacrifice to meet the needs of your partner and it helps to smooth over the rough patches of an otherwise healthy R...since we aren't exactly in a healthy one, I recognized that it would seem contrived, but it was still a need and I wanted to communicate it.

You know what? The power of that conversation has exponentially grown. She is committed to make the marriage work, and she was given some first tools as to how to do it. Our SL is not back to where we'd both want it, but we are still having sex with some regularity...a far cry from hand holding!! Trust and communication? Much better. There are still skeletons in her closet that have to do with TOM that she just won't go into without a gun to her head, so there is still much healing. Step by step.

ASK FOR WHAT YOU NEED.

Right now, the idea of his two lives is really hurting you. One thing I have found extremely helpful, as there was indeed an emotional affair with TOM going on, was not telling her to end it or else. Since I'm not going to leave her anytime soon, I could not back that up and she would lose respect if she continued and I put up with it. Instead, I told her that "It hurts me to have this relationship with this guy still present in your life. It threatens me because I don't trust him, and it erodes my trust in you. I would like for it that he is no longer in your life, although I will not demand you to do that."

Boy did that clear the air. My W cares about me deeply. There is no question. She was vulnerable, and met a guy that met her emotional needs while I was 3000 miles away and could not understand what she was going through (her medical internship). She grew attached to him and detached from me. I understand how it happened, and have detached from the emotional reactions that that sort of thing entails. Telling her how I FELT about the whole scenario without the emotional investment in the discussion allowed me to let her react any way she felt she wanted to. She didn't get angry, but she could have. She got frustrated that I seem to dwell on this, but I have also told her that just like she's dwelling on the trust that I will make the changes in how I show my love to her permanent, I have every right to grieve and process this infidelity how I need to, and if that means every so often we need to talk about it, that's her problem, not mine, and if she's committed, she will let me do it.

PositivelyGorgeous, YOU, my friend, have done everything I can think of to project yourself as the fun, easygoing, heartthrob of a partner he once new and fell in love with. By continuing to emote that 'best side' of you doesn't mean you lose yourself either. He doesn't want a divorce, and I garantee that he doesn't want his life to be like this forever. Is it time to step up? You don't have to stand for the pain his trips give you. Just don't give ultimatums, and don't be critical. Just tell him how you feel...most men stereotypically abhor the idea of being callous to the feelings of someone they care about.

It's like when my W used to ask me to go for a walk after work. I was tired and cranky and I would often refuse. She would get upset and hurt and say, "Fine, then I'll go without you..." obviously pained and miffed. That put me in an untenable (sp?) situation and I ALWAYS switched gears and said, "I'm going"...that didn't improve the sitch, as I switched gears without a clutch and it was a grumpy walk...but that's not my point. I HATED the idea that I could be blamed for hurting her feelings because I felt responsible for them. I cared for them.

Don't be afraid to manipulate, so long as you are self-referencing, rather than critical or demanding. Be the guiding light to steer the ship of your marriage back to health. Step up. Own your feelings and communicate them. Your H is a big man, he can take it.

Well..I'd best get back to work, my dear. All the best as always

Mr. MD


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I just want you to know that I was in a very similar situation like yours. If he confuses you, most likely it’s b/c he is confuse HIMSELF. Sometime, you just got to read between the lines, can’t believe everything he said. (Read my story for clarity. I am new here so how do I link my story when I reply?) I heard the same thing “I am not in love with you”. Guess what, couple months down the road, he admitted that he couldn’t stop thinking about me. Unfortunately, there are still setbacks.

Actually I think you have the advantage since the OW is far away. Be his friend. And whatever made him unhappy before, work on those. Since you feel you were too critical before, now be supportive instead of critical. He’ll you appreciate you for that. Good luck.


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Hi my friend Mr_MD,

Thanks for writing to me. It took me a while to get back here to write to you - I have been BUSY! I guess that is a good thing. But meanwhile, your words have helped me on more than one occasion. When I get discouraged and feel so misunderstood or judged by my H, I come here and remember that there are people like me, and people who really "get" me, and it helps. You are the best!

The sadness has been huge for me lately. I remain positive and upbeat around the H most of the time, but in my own world when he's not around, I cry 3 - 5 times each day. I am keeping busy with work, school, friends and activities, but it all feels so superficial sometimes. I want my H to come home, and it feels such a long way off. I still see it as possible though, that he will return - that gives me hope. It is truly a "one day at a time" endeavor.

It is hard to refrain from telling him what I see about what he is doing. He is leaving to visit the OW next week. The OW is keeping their affair secret from her husband, she apparently says she doesn't want to hurt her children. So, he is going to sneak around with her, on her schedule of secrets and lies, while causing emotional pain to me, our daughters, let alone my H - as he is obviously in turmoil and agony. But he seems unable to cut it off right now. When does he wake up and smell the coffee, that he is someone else's joy ride, that he is being used - and actually has a really wonderful choice that he seems to be ignoring - me?

My H and I went to do our taxes on Friday, and he had a long discussion with the tax preparer/realtor/CPA about buying another investment property (a fixer) and doing another remodel/improvement since he is so handy. We are all in agreement that this is the best way for us to improve our financial situation. But right now, there is no way I can proceed in another financial venture with him until he is more emotionally stable. He seems to want a 50% marriage with me right now - he wants to stay married and remain my "business partner" (ie. he says I can trust him in the financial arena, that he would never hurt me financially) and then he says he doesn't want to hurt me but someone else has his heart. Well it does hurt me. And trust for me in a marriage doesn't get compartmentalized. Right now, I can't trust him 100%. Not until the OW is out of the picture. So I really like what you said to your wife in this context.


Quote:

Right now, the idea of his two lives is really hurting you. One thing I have found extremely helpful, as there was indeed an emotional affair with TOM going on, was not telling her to end it or else. Since I'm not going to leave her anytime soon, I could not back that up and she would lose respect if she continued and I put up with it. Instead, I told her that "It hurts me to have this relationship with this guy still present in your life. It threatens me because I don't trust him, and it erodes my trust in you. I would like for it that he is no longer in your life, although I will not demand you to do that."





I have not found the right moment to say this to my H. I am aware the timing must be right. Things are moving slowlllyyy in terms of relationship conversations. A lot of the time, I have been trying to keep it light. It is funny how in the DB books, they are always saying for us DBers not to bring up the OW especially while the affair is still going on. Well, I never do! But he brings her up, everytime we are having a good time together. Seems like he wants to bring us "down" and dampen our time together, although he always starts it with he "doesn't want to hurt me" everytime he brings her up. I suppose I would be willing to have a meaningful conversation with him about his feelings in relation to the OW, but that's not what he does - it is always couched as if the comment is for me. I think he thinks I am in denial about his relationship with her. I do believe he does not want to continue to hurt me, which is his dilemma. However, I am not going to give him reasons to leave me. Perhaps he wants me to pretend that I do not love him. I don't say it right now, but I am a warm demonstrative person and I am sure when we are out, that people would never think we are in the situation that we are in - people would think we were very much in love - we hold hands, hug, gaze into each others' eyes, etc. I am very soft and gentle but also sometimes spicy and playful. I think he is in denial about his love for me, and feels so guilty that he's been with her that he can't see his way back right now. Since I a hopeful he will wake up, it is my job to keep the road open, right? So that's all I'm doing. Makes me feel strong and alive and like I'm up to something. Why would he want to put a damper on that?

So here's what's happened this week. He came over a fair amount this week, as there was work to do in the office. One morning he needed to come over early (before work), asked if he needed to call first and said no just come. I timed his entrance perfectly - I was showered, light makeup and perfume, hair etc. but only half dressed, so he got the fetching turn around in my V.S. demi-bra when he arrived. Got a hug right away :-) When he was leaving an hour later, I took his face in my hands very gently and said "sweet face" and kissed him. He stopped leaving, pulled me towards him and said "come here" and then gave me a huge and prolonged hug. Now that is good, right? Made my day. The next evening he came back unannounced, and I was on my way to take a long walk on the beach with a friend. When I returned, I showered and hung out in my bathrobe working on the taxes while he was doing the same. I ended up sitting in his lap at one point and he was very loving towards me, saying "it's that time of year again, and evrything will be OK, it's always OK" because he knows I get stressed out about the finances. And he hugged me for a long time. Then later, he said "you miss me, don't you?" so of course I hugged him and told him the truth, that I miss him all the time.

Friday, after the tax prep, he invited me to a job site he is working on, to show me the install and his beautiful craftmanship. When he shares his work world with me, I know it is a good thing, and I was happy to go. Earlier in the week, he had suggested that we "celebrate" the sale of my daughter's house this week over a bottle of wine, so I asked if he wanted to have dinner that night to celebrate. I am not sure if that was a mistake or not. He said yes, and we made plans to go to a new restaurant half way between his rented room and our home, and agreed to meet there. I have Fridays off and had a great day, with a lot of self care (massage, therapy, a beach walk, got my hair colored) and I decided to wear a dress and stockings for dinner which I don't often do. Honestly, I looked great - never so good. Like I did when we got married. I have lost at least 20 lbs from all the walking and light eating and have been doing sit ups and the dress wasn't new but he's never seen it, and I looked the way I always wished I would in it. So I was HOT, but he was cool. I am not sure what happened, the combination of the upscale environment, perhaps he felt a bit underdressed (not arriving together, he was more casually dressed) or perhaps I was just too good for words. Or maybe he was tired, I dunno. We had a pleasant dinner, light conversation. He cut out and brought me a newspaper article about homeowners insurance (?) but had stories that he had shared with his customers about me and also the article (regardless of the content) I get that he's thinking about me, right? However, he did not have any wine and I had two glasses which apparently my new body can't quite manage even with a meal, so I was a bit light headed afterwards. Since I was going to need to drive, a long walk was in order. We held hands, etc. but it was on this walk that he told me (again!!) when we paused at a railing and I was looking into his eyes, that he said he "didn't want to hurt me" blah blah blah and when I look at him that way he wories blah blah ... Undaunted, I said, well that has nothing to do with me really and some how said, "well why don't you just kiss me?" which he then did, and we continued on our walk with him arm closely around me. So, I dunno. I mentioned later that I didn't like it when he "made me small", that I am not a victim, but am choosing to be here. That I am perfectly aware that he is going to have to make a decision about whether he is going to go back to his country of origin and leave me, or recommit to our marriage. And meanwhile he is in an inquiry about what he wants. I am not sure how that landed for him, but it felt good to me. However, the end of the evening was weird. He ended up offering to drive me home, and I told him if he wanted to stay over at our house, we could go back and get the car early in the am on his way back to his room, but he said "No, I need to stay in my room tonight" so I said I would be fine driving (I really did feel I was OK at that point). He asked me to call him when I got home to let him know I got home safe (and I guess I was feeling a little rejected/independent because I declined - you know, if I'm going home alone, he doesn't get to know...) But at the end, he said "thanks for the evening, it was memorable in more ways than one" and it sounded sarcastic so that has thrown me. And talk about a little "gamey" on my part, I was really disapointed that he didn't call me anyway to make sure I got home OK (when he was 100% my husband and we have driven separately in the past, he always followed me home, even when I tried to lose him!) so not seeing those headlights in the rear view mirror and no phone call for over 24 hours and oh it is hard to be patient, and hard not to wonder if I have blown it or failed. I suspect that he wanted to go back to his room that night to call the OW, as the time difference makes the late night call a necessity.

Or maybe I am freaking him out with my confidence. He doesn't know what he's doing, and I look like I know what I'm doing. Truth be told, I don't have a clue if this will work out alright or not and I'm shaking in my boots all the time when he's not around. But I am hopeful, and I'm willing and I'm committed. So that counts for something. I just hope it ends up being enough.

My daughter is visiting this weekend, and he insisted on coming over for breakfast today to be with us. Seriously, he said he had paperwork to do, and would that bother us if he came over? and I said, well we can just go out together while you are working, no big deal, and he paused and looked at me, and said he wanted to have breakfast with us on the patio (like last week) but I can chooose what to make. Funny! I was almost pissed after Friday night's ending and was going to tell him that I was backing off until he gets his head on straight about what he wants (her or me). But with space in between (thank God!) I can go another round! I will shower, look cute, make a killer breakfast, and let him enjoy it :-) and my daughter God bless her has decided that she loves him and can be patient (however she tells me only if he is really stupid and brings the OW here will he then be toast!). She is a wonderful asset to our lives. Interestingly when we first got married, she is a lot like me and she pushed his buttons and he didn't "get" her entirely, and since this crisis in particular he has been most concerned about the reality of losing the family if he leaves me and is especially concerned about her. So breakfast it will be, and we'll let the natural family dance work it's charm and magic.

So, one week before he's leaving. This is the first time he will be visiting her with my knowledge that he is going there. Should I write him a letter for the plane, telling him how I feel or what I see? Something even with a little lightness and humor in it? Should I ignore the fact that he's leaving? Wish him a nice trip? Tell him I will miss him, and can't wait for him to come home? Back off and disappear? Offer to be available by phone if he wants to talk? Is there some way to mess with his head (in a good way) so he will thnk of ME when he is with her? Holy moly, I will need everyone to think good thoughts for me so I don't have a melt down. The idea of him sleeping with someone else makes me want to die. I can hardly stand it. But I still love my husband and want him to come home.

Well he just called, and he's on his way for that breakfast, and he will pick up the groceries :-) He sounds cheery and excited. One more day of DBing, coming up!



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Hi RBinBR,

Thanks so much for reading my post and writing to me. I have been thinking and thinking about what you said:

Quote:

As long as you are loving without expectation, I don't think you have to worry about little things seeming like pursuing. He knows that he will have to end the A before he can move back in with you and have a normal marriage again.





I am not at all sure that I am loving with out expectation. I do not know how to do that. I expect him to respond to me, or to love me back, and when he does not, I get dissapointed although I don't show dissapointment to him. So that is pursuing behavior? In the past, I have walked away from relationships and never looked back (not marriages, but relationships). In every instance, the guy I was dating figured out later that I was pretty great and wanted to warm it up again. But in the past, when I was done, I was DONE. So, I have purposely and specifically decided that I will not precipitiously end my marriage. Because I believe he will regret leaving me and want me back. And I love him, and I believe in our marriage. I behave as if I am detached. But inside, I am very very attached to our marriage and committed to our partnership. And I love him. So what the hell, how hard is this? Do I need to walk away and completely let go, so he can find out that he misses me? I'm afraid if I do that he will be gone from my heart forever. If I really let him go. So how do I hold him there and let him go at the same time? I am not sure I have this down yet.

Thanks for any insights you have.


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Quote:

Thanks for any insights you have




Well, I'm no expert, and there are definitely those on these boards who can explain this better than me, but here goes:

Detachment does not mean that you love your H any less. In fact, you may well love him more. What it means is that you decide that you can be happy without him. You GAL so that you can have sources of happiness in your life without him. You start satisfying your emotional needs in other ways, since they will not be met by him in the short term. You hope for him to end the A, but you do not expect it ... it may happen or it may not, but you'll be happy in either case.

All this is very hard to do, and I think you've done a lot of it already. I was only trying to put words to a process.


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Hey Darlin'

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The sadness has been huge for me lately. I remain positive and upbeat around the H most of the time, but in my own world when he's not around, I cry 3 - 5 times each day. I am keeping busy with work, school, friends and activities, but it all feels so superficial sometimes. I want my H to come home, and it feels such a long way off. I still see it as possible though, that he will return - that gives me hope. It is truly a "one day at a time" endeavor.




It's so rough, isn't it? I believe that a lot of this emotion comes from working your a$$ off so hard to the point where you lose yourself to exhaustion. You are a performer, meaning you put on a mask of positivity and kettle your negativity, sadness, resentments until you are alone, when you can release and vent it all out. As my mom is apt to say, "Divorce is the best weight-loss program"...this is no different. I've cut weight too, although by most standards I'm a lean individual to begin with, but I was getting 'healthy' up to 190 or so, but through all this I've lost a great deal of that. It's cool because it makes you more physically attractive to the partner you are trying to rescue!! haha

All I wanted to say to this was keep your chin up--I know your pain and feel it. You are among friends here

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But he seems unable to cut it off right now. When does he wake up and smell the coffee, that he is someone else's joy ride, that he is being used - and actually has a really wonderful choice that he seems to be ignoring - me?





I've been struggling with this even though my situation has her cutting off her relationship with TOM. It's hard for me to tell you this because it is almost depressing, but once you have accomplished your first goal of getting him to dump her on her butt, the next goal will be the battle of your own resentment and trust. I'm going through a WICKED depression right now--my mind is constantly dwelling on my resentments and it is making it a struggle to keep up the positive changes I have brought. It's just one more step in the process. But it's better now. I know all that is a depressing sentiment (that it isn't going to get better soon) but it's important for you to focus on your timeline and accept it as a long haul. I think we battle our expectations more than anything else. In my twisted logic (or not so twisted perhaps) I think that my actions of late, which are completely sincere, should turn this thing completely around. 180 for 180, right? Failed expectations makes this thing hurt so much. Expect it to take 2 years, and if it happens in a year, you are ecstatic. Expect it to take a year and it happens in 6 months, break out the champagne. See my drift?? SO TOUGH TO DO...I know!!!

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But right now, there is no way I can proceed in another financial venture with him until he is more emotionally stable. He seems to want a 50% marriage with me right now - he wants to stay married and remain my "business partner" (ie. he says I can trust him in the financial arena, that he would never hurt me financially) and then he says he doesn't want to hurt me but someone else has his heart. Well it does hurt me. And trust for me in a marriage doesn't get compartmentalized. Right now, I can't trust him 100%. Not until the OW is out of the picture. So I really like what you said to your wife in this context.





It's highly inappropriate for me to offer financial advice, so please don't take it as such. But I offer another perspective. Think like a business person. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. This financial move could bring in a positive cash flow or a viable future investment for the both of you. The both of you already have assets that you share and upon a divorce would have to be divided equitably. I could be wrong, but adding to that list really doesn't impact anything, so long as you agree to pay into it equally. In other words, if it's in both your names and he works it such a way that you are the one fronting it from your own income, then that may be risky.

My wife and I have a similar sitch. We need to buy a house now because the home we rent is going up for sale. We've needed to for awhile, but this moved up our timeline. But the timing is uncomfortable because of our M problems. But she put it in wonderful perspective. She said basically that it ultimately doesn't matter...if we don't work it out, it doesn't work out and we just decide what to do with the house, just like everything else we own. We are no more financially at risk than we are now, unless I'm really naive. If I am, I wouldn't mind the correction--but sometimes you have to take some risks. The way I'm looking at this is a) we need a house. b) we want our marriage to work. and c) the process of buying a house may be stressful, but it can be very fun too and it may bring us together...it is a new chapter in our life, as opposed to living in the old chapter.

Don't write off the investment JUST because there are marital problems. It's not like having children! Your concern is both valid and should be considered, but the glass may be half full here and an opportunity for you to reach out to your hubby in a different way.

I dunno...am I going out on a limb on that one? I'm not a seasoned investor and I have no assets of my own yet...so take that for what it's worth!


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I think he is in denial about his love for me, and feels so guilty that he's been with her that he can't see his way back right now


I think you are absolutely right. He's denying a lot. There is no future in his R with TOW (I like how that rhymes with TOE..teehee) so long as she is preserving her marriage in that secrecy and the fact that she is so far away. You are in the drivers seat..she has no control of his interactions with you while he is home. I struggle with this myself, but tell yourself that you have 11 months of the year to work and she only has 1...you have the upper hand. If it must be viewed as a competition, you are way ahead of the curve...but it sucks to have to 'win your sweetheart over' all over again. You've already done that and marriage should be the state where you should no longer ever have to worry about it...but alas, we aren't there anymore are we!


It sounds to me that the events of your week(s) have been very positive. Some of the positives are hard to see because you are putting expectations up and they are failing. Remember, don't set him up to fail. If you get dressed up to the 9s, and I AM sure you are Hooooooot, then do it for yourself and "ACT AS IF" you are in the driver's seat to the point of how coy you were when you were dating...I know you did it--all chicks do it You play hard to get...you put the brakes on. You go to a date with a plan ahead of time saying, "I'm going to knock his socks off, maybe kiss him on the cheek and make him beg for more..." Married couples are different because we expect that after a wonderful dinner and a lot of overtones, we often expect something to happen beyond the date...those expectations are what's killing us!!! It's really hard, I know...but lose the expectations and you'll likely find yourself a whole lot more comfortable around him. Easier said than done, I know....

I'm excited about this daughter-father visit. It sounds as if he was really excited too. I have a tendency of spoiling moments that are supposed to be good. My wife is in Costa Rica right now and our phone calls are the only thing we have in the day. I KNOW it should be the highlight of her day if I want to do this right...but twice already I've stumbled and gotten myself into topics that I should have strayed away from and we ended up fighting. NOT A GOOD THING considering she is now a phone call away from getting together with TOM, who she said she has cut off ties with.

It takes willpower. Know the moments that should be highlights of a day and strain with all your effort to avoid talk that will crash things around you. If that means you collapse with exhaustion when it's all over, then do that...I've done that myself. I've worked so damn hard DBing that by 8pm I was falling asleep on my feet...I'm a night owl hon! I don't get sleepy until 10 or 11!!!


OKAY...now on to the IMPORTANT part!!!!

Stand by--uploading: (sometimes I enjoy my nerd god title too much)

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Should I write him a letter for the plane, telling him how I feel or what I see? Something even with a little lightness and humor in it? Should I ignore the fact that he's leaving? Wish him a nice trip? Tell him I will miss him, and can't wait for him to come home? Back off and disappear? Offer to be available by phone if he wants to talk? Is there some way to mess with his head (in a good way) so he will thnk of ME when he is with her? Holy moly, I will need everyone to think good thoughts for me so I don't have a melt down. The idea of him sleeping with someone else makes me want to die. I can hardly stand it. But I still love my husband and want him to come home.






HEAVENS TO BETSY NO!!!!

What does he expect from you? Answer this honestly. He probably expects you to be many things. Weepy? Clutchy? Pursuing? Pleading?? He expects you to be doing everything you can to either ruin his trip, spoil his thoughts while he's with her, or make him feel guilty.

SPOIL THOSE EXPECTATIONS.

You need to "act as if"...act as if he's leaving to visit his mother. Trust me, I tell you this but I'm having the worst week of my life right now dealing with this same issue. I know how hard it is.

My mom, when she was going through separation from my dad for his affair (and ultimate divorce), went on a vacation for a week visiting me while I lived in Costa Rica. She wrote him a letter for every day of the week she was gone and could not communicate with him. She told me later that this was one of the biggest mistakes she ever made. She knew that he would be shacking up with TOW, so she wanted to be in his head the whole time. BIG MISTAKE. The pressure it put on him turned him off completely.

The BEST thing you can do is ignore it altogether. Don't ask for an itinerary unless he offers it. Don't offer to take him to the airport unless he asks. This trip doesn't exist for you. You don't support this relationship, so you are not going to actively support the trip. Remain upbeat up to the time he leaves, and before he leaves, which him a safe journey and most of all, "HAVE A GREAT TIME"...practice it in the mirror...give him the best smile when you say it. Give him a warm hug and let him know that you will see him in a week.

If he calls home from wherever he is (what country, may I ask??) don't be there. ESPECIALLY don't say you'll wait by the phone...nothing will turn him off more! Don't be around. If there is any week to fill yourself up with more activities that you've always wanted to do, it's this week. Hell, go get drunk if that's your inclination (with friends of course!)...as we men say, 'we're baching it for the week...time to drink'...Cut loose, let the hair down...if he does catch you and you decide to pick up the phone, then you will have tons of things to tell him that you've been up to. DO NOT SAY that you've been doing 'nothing' or 'moping' or anything that gives that hint. Give him something to be missing out over.

THe only way you'll get in his head is the active effort to get out of his head. It is completely 180 degrees out of the expected. I assure you that it will drive him nuts.

Anyways..the less interaction you have about the trip, the better. You can talk about it all when you get back, I suppose, but if you address all those emotions now, it will definitely pressure him and he'll look at this woman as a relief more than anything...

Best of luck dear!!!

mucho cariño,
Mr.MD


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Hi Mr_MD,

You wrote me such a beautiful post to me, and I promise I will read it again in a little bit, after I have pulled myself together. But I am freaking out right now, because I snooped. My husband's computer and office are still here in our house and have been since he moved out, and he even told me a month ago that he had been e-mailing the OW during the "secret" months before he moved out, and he was really defensive at the thought that I might have looked at his stuff at that time (which I hadn't which then seemed to make him feel better). I was determined that I would not snoop too even after this revelation. Also, I don't speak much of the language (German, BTW, since you asked) So I have been careful not to go into his Outlook e-mail. But tonight my H came over, in and out within 1/2 hour while I was on a conference call for my school (doctoral) program, so we did not even get a chance to speak. I have been feeling lately like he is not dropping in to do office work, but to make her love music on CD's to take on his trip next week, and to e-mail her. It's just a gut feeling, but he came over yesterday while my daughter was here and although he said he was here to do work he spent most of the time here cheerily hunting around in itunes. I asked him the night he moved out not to leave anything about her here, or to have any contact with her from here. It was a boundary I felt I needed and he said OK, and supposedly took everything related to her out of the house that night. I am very intuitive and sensitive, and can feel the energy on things. I could even tell which items he missed taking the first round. (This was all before my DBing awareness, might have done it differently now although it doesn't feel like it at the moment. Right now I feel like setting the office on fire). Anyway, tonight I checked out his computer and looked into the "recent documents". Found a work estimate labeled IW & a 2004 date (her initials, I believe - all of the other estimates have full names and are more recent in the recent docs) and yes, after the cover page (a fake estimate) and three blank pages, there in all it's glory are all of the OW's little cryptic e-mail messages to him saved in a running word document since August 2005 when the affair started. Most recent ones are dated earlier this month. My stomach is turning, I am sick. I have read some of your posts, so I know you have snooped before. I could throw up. Now what do I do? I want to have them translated by a friend who speaks German so I can get into her head and his head. I have no idea what I am really dealing with. But I also don't want to know. The "Ich liebe dich" started way back in September, and that I understand. It is so sickening to be faced with the reality of the deceptions and the timing of them - holidays, my birthday, etc. Acting like he was my husband (distant though he was) all the while. Gave me a b-day card in November saying we were soul mates. But in January announcing that we weren't that he was in love with someone else. (And as the paper trail indicates, for months and months she's been ILYing him). I realize I have violated his privacy, and I am not big on keeping secrets myself. That is not what I usually do. I have always been an open and honest person. But I admit I am going crazy here wondering if he really is the wonderful man I married, or a bold-faced manipulative liar with no conscience. Oh man, thanks for letting me vent. This is the man I kissed and called sweet face just a few days ago. What an emotional rollercoaster. So, do I shred it all without finding out what they say? Will it help me in any way to know if he doesn't tell me himself? If I don't really understand what's in them right now and I don't have them translated and I stop now, will I still need to tell him what I found? Or maybe just that I found them and I didn't like it and that I didn't go any further, but it really hurt me? Maybe that could work.

You or anyone else out there: Please tell me everything you know about DBing as it relates to snooping. I will set these e-mails aside for now. I'll put them out of my space. I hate the fact that my husband has had an affair. And I hate even more that he is continuing it. He is leaving in 7 days to go to visit her. They are going to sneak around over there, and her husband and kids could one day feel like me and my kids. And I am supposed to tell him to have a good time and that's it and really mean it? That will take some practice in the mirror in advance. Oh, sh**. I need some advice, but will also think on this.

Thanks,


PositivelyListening
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Let me ask: what useful purpose would it play for you to translate these emails? Won't they just make you sick? You're freaking out now without even knowing what they say. I can promise you that they will contain intimate details that you will not be able to get out of your head and will only torture you more.

Why would you mention to him that you found anything? What useful purpose could it possibly serve to let him know that you snooped? If you want him back, then making him furious with you isn't going to help.

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But I admit I am going crazy here wondering if he really is the wonderful man I married, or a bold-faced manipulative liar with no conscience.




An A can turn a normally honest person into a liar faster than anything. All of us on this board were lied to by our S's. It's the same thing that will turn a drug addict into a thief to get money for drugs. The addiction takes precedence over normal morals.

BTW, are you keeping up with Erin's sitch? Her H is also leaving soon to visit an OW in Germany.


The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
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