Like so many others, I’m back with a new name. Temporarily anyway. I’m not doing too well on the NPD sites. Way too much navel-gazing for my tastes, so even though SSM isn’t my current problem, I want to run something by y’all. And before anybody thinks we’ve had a GEL-like turnaround in the Bube household, I honestly can’t remember the last time we ML. I think it was the first week of January, but I’m not sure.
Monday morning, there was another big fight at home. D18 had been sick most of the weekend. Running out of both ends. W had walked all but one of her dogs and got D14 out of bed and told her to walk the other one. A few minutes later she looked out the window and saw the dog cowering on the ground while D14 repeatedly kicked it. That problem isn’t part of this though. The problem here is W’s reaction. First she went out and smacked D14 in the face, took the leash, and sent D14 back into the house. D14 promptly went into the bathroom and threw up. D18 heard the retching and went to look for W. When she couldn’t find her, she called my mother.
W came back in just as my mother came in the other door and started down the hall. W didn’t know that D14 was sick and just assumed that D14 had called her because of the dog incident. W ran my mother out and then went into D14’s room and started in on her. I really don’t know what happened in there, but I do know that W hit her with the dog leash at least once. D18 said that she heard multiple whacks. W says that she only hit D once and was hitting the bed the other times. D14 says W hit her two or three times. In any case, she also screamed at D14 for calling my mother and screamed all manner of horrible things to her. She then screamed at D14 to get out of the house and never come back. D18 told W that she had called my mother because D14 was sick, but that fell on deaf ears.
I didn’t really even see W until last night. We had a doozy. I told her that the girls are not to have anything to do with the dogs – they’re W’s dogs and W’s responsibility. I told her that her treatment of her kids was unconscionable and totally unacceptable. I was quite calm, but she cut loose on me. I finally told her that if she didn’t like it, she knew where the door was. I talked and she screamed off an on for about another hour and a half. From her perspective, we all hate her. She’s never allowed to do anything that she likes, but is expected to take care of us 24/7. We’ve never appreciated her. She deserves better treatment. I always take the girls’ side on everything and never believe her. I told her to leave. The girls told her they wanted her to leave. She hasn’t done anything right in 30 years. Blah, blah, blah. She did admit to having made at least one mistake, “adopting that little [censored]!!!!!”
She told me she’s leaving. She’ll be out by this weekend. SHe's also telling everyone that I told her to leave - even the kids who know exactly waht really happened. It's like she's living in some parallel universe or something. She slept in the living room last night and has only talked to any of us in short sentences. She asked me if this weekend would be soon enough. All I said was, “I don’t want you to leave.” The kids have done the same. She called me at work today and asked if she was going to be allowed to take her van with her when she leaves. Again, all I said was, “I don’t want you to leave.” I know how good she is and I know that if we say anything more, she’ll find a way to twist it into something else. It’s hard to twist, “I don’t want you to leave” and I want to make sure that she has no way of getting around the fact that leaving is her choice, nobody else’s.
Comments? Suggestions? Should I stick with the man-o-steel thing? Should I apologize? Should I do or say anything about the leaving – assuming that she actually does leave?
Quote: saw the dog cowering on the ground while D14 repeatedly kicked it. That problem isn’t part of this though
This most certainly *IS* part of the problem. When your child has so much stored up rage that she will "repeatedly" kick a dog-- what makes you think she won't do this to her own children one day? Children treat others the way they PERCEIVE they have been treated. This is a huge red flag--- I think it's time to rip the blinders from your eyes and see what living with your W is doing to your kids. And in later years, abused children (and that's what yours are) may hate the abusing spouse, but they wonder why the Other Parent stood by and let it happen.
The picture of a 14-year old girl kicking a dog makes ME want to throw up. How much pain that poor child must contain to do that...
Fcuk the man-o-steel... kick that woman to the curb and do it NOW! Stop making excuses for her.
Animal and child abuse is something I absolutely will not tolerate-- it hits my biggest and hottest hot button.
Sorry, that's my take.
(Welcome back... other boards just aren't like this one, are they? xoxoxoxo)
Do not apologize. YOU did nothing wrong. Whatever you have been doing is having a profound effect on the wife and she is raging, struggling, fighting herself. She is trying to redirect the issues. Its gonna be scary, but do not be redirected. YOU know what is reality.
She is dragging you guys into it.
IF she wants to leave that is her choice.
D14 kicking the dog. Just guessing here, but I am sure she hates them becuase of there more importance to Mrs.Zb then you guys.
Its still not acceptable. Let her know. Put the dogs down but dont let them be abused. She is mimicking your W's behavior all ready on externalizing her anger.
I dont thinnk you should do anything about her leaving. In fact my bet says she doesnt. This is a hard boundary that she is running into and she doesnt like it . Shell accept it or she wont. NOT your problem.
Also I would stop saying I dont want you to leave. She can twist that too. Just continue saying that whatever she decides, the dogs are no ones responsiblity except hers.
You can do this. Its a painful process for you and everyone else. You can do it. There is no growth without pain.
once again welcome back VB. (what does you new name mean?)
Oh yeah. Im really really pleased by your progress. It can get better if you can stick to the man o steel.
I am so sorry that things have went further down hill for you. But on the other hand I am glad you felt you could come here for someone to talk to.
I think your actions are correct.
First let me applaud you sticking up for your children and telling your wife her treatment of them is not acceptable. Since you are all they truely have to buffer and sheild them from her behavior.
Second let me applaud you for not cowing down to your wife. And not allowing your self the room to get sucked into her blame game. By keeping it short in affirmation of your wants and not doing the pleading thing.
I know your wife is sick. But I do see maybe some good will come from her leaving if for no other reason then to give you some space and her some thinking room. (I do hope you informed her the dogs go with her on her departure). Have you spoken to her doctor about this latest event and what approach he feels you should take?
I really have nothing to offer you but my heart felt prayers that you and your girls get through this unscatthed. Which I doubt is the case.
She did admit to having made at least one mistake, “adopting that little [censored]!!!!!”
This really bothers me that your wife said this. I hope your daughters were not in ear shot of this comment. No matter how in the heat of the moment it is those words will be forever etched in the memory. You may want to think of how much more rejection and turmoil they are going to be able to endure with out it causing damage that cannot be undone. As is in your wifes case.
RE ZB
I told her that the girls are not to have anything to do with the dogs – they’re W’s dogs and W’s responsibility Imporant step. I had to do something like that with BB's dogs. I was playing the dog's dorman every 30 minuets, which I came to resent. Now I ignore the doorman's position most times. If I am near the door or BB is truely buys, I let the dogs in/out.
Life is better, try it (they’re W’s dogs), stick with it ZB.
ZB said “I don’t want you to leave.” Mistake Me thinks. I can see this biting you ZB. Making many future problems/things your fault.
A modified version might be,
I want you to stay but we have to have a workable solution that works for the whole family. I don't see that happening. If you want to leave, that is up to you. I know I can't make anyone do anything.
she was going to be allowed to take her van Say sure, I don't want you to have to walk anyplace or be in a risky places on foot. I care about you even if you feel different about our relationship.
Then let it go.
Kids first, parents need to be the adults, if one adult can't/won't parent, then what they want does not count for much. If a parent or spouse won't fill the role, they need to tear up their parent/sopuse card untill they can fill the shoes. Doesn't mean we totall abandon them, but they don't get to play roles they can't/wont perform just because their name is on a piece of paper.
Lil, I didn’t mean to suggest that D14 abusing the dog isn’t a problem. I know that it most certainly is. I know that animal abuse is a warning sign for lots of terrible things. I just meant to say that the dog kicking wasn’t what I wanted to talk about. I’m all but certain that it’s D14 redirecting her anger at her mother. That and what BF said: jealousy of the love and attention they get from W. We’ll work on that issue separately. I may be kidding myself, but I think I have a pretty good handle on that one. It’s W that has me confused. And BF, “verwirrter” is the masculine adjective form of the verb “verwirren”. I’m not sure of the literal meaning (maybe Pen can help here), but I’ve heard it used to mean confuse, perplex, disorient, or something along those lines.
BF, I realize that I gave you a very brief synopsis of what went on. During the row, none of the kids were home. I had neither seen nor talked to D14. I had only heard D18’s version of the story. I don’t know if accused is the right word, but I did make reference to W beating D14 with the leash. Now, having heard two other versions of the story from the two people who were actually in the room at the time, I think beating was too strong a word. And since her father used to fly into rages and beat her, it’s also a word that pushes one of W’s buttons. Any apology I would consider would be along the lines of backing down from the use of the word ‘beating’ and telling her that if I said anything that made her think that I was kicking her out, I’m sorry. That was not my intention. Right now, I’m not inclined to apologize for anything, but I have a long history of letting her run roughshod over all of us and I can’t stop this nagging feeling that I need to fix this. Rationally, I know that I can’t fix it, but it’s still there.
Chrissy, I most certainly told her that the animals either went with her or I would get rid of them. She is leaving one dog and one cat. The dog is D18’s dog that she’s had since she was very young. I didn’t ask why she’s planning on taking two of the cats and leaving the other one. But two pets is an acceptable number and I don’t mind.
I did talk to the C sometime between the incident with the dog and the kids. Emailed actually. His answer was short and sweet. The email you’re about to read is true. The names have been changed to protect the innocent.
Quote: D14 is not old enough to kick out, W is. Tell W to pack her bags and leave.
The C does counseling for the Dallas Police Department and was unavailable yesterday. I could have called him at home, but I didn’t want to do that. I emailed him again with what I told you. I got an answer last night. Again, it was short and sweet.
Quote: Make her leave. That is the only way you can get control. You have to tell her that it is time for her to grow up. She is creating problems with the whole family. Tell her to leave VB. Please tell her to leave. Do not beg her to stay. If you do she will think she has the right to make everybody sorry for how they have mistreated her. Make her leave.
Not much room for interpretation in that is there?
And finally, it bears repeating that none of the kids were home when this occurred. None of the kids heard the thing about adopting the little [censored]. I told D18 about it, but as far as I know, D14 doesn’t know about it. I would like to keep it that way.
W jumped D18 yesterday morning and D18 pretty much told her the same things I did. She called me after her mother left and told me what she had said. I think D18 handled it pretty well. Incidentally, D18 is very mature for her age. I have never shared any of the SSM issues with her, neither have I discusses my A with her other than to say that I did it, it was wrong, and that it was none of her business. I have talked about W though. D18 has come to me about a number of things and I finally shared the NPD thing with her. I told her that her mother wasn’t evil, but had an illness that affected her behavior. I told her that her mother doesn’t really hate them, but the rage and the vitriol are just something that she can’t control without getting some help – help she doesn’t seem inclined to seek.
Lou, after the last email from the C, I’m thinking that I should stop telling her that I don’t want her to leave. I’m just trying to figure out how to follow his suggestion and tell her to leave while making sure that she can see that the door is always open for her to come back if and when some of these issues are addressed.
As for the van, I just said, “It’s yours.” She came back with, “It’s in your name. You paid for it.” I just repeated, “It’s yours.” End of convo.
Bube I am so sorry this is happening to you and your family. NPD is so ugly sometimes, as witnesed by the recent behavior of your W. I think the C is 100% right. Make her leave. You have a responsibility to protect those children. Please don't back down on this one. I've seen the pain my cousins went through with their mother who has NPD (unfortunately their father died early on). No one was there to protect them. Be there for your kids and do the right thing for them.
Bube, I apologize for coming on so strong. I know you're a level-headed guy trying to survive in an untenable situation. It's hard for me to hold onto myself where animal abuse is concerned.
The point I was making is that-- even if what BF says is true (that your D hates the dogs because of how important they are to your W (and this makes sense)-- to express hatred, resentment, anger with physical violence toward a helpless, dependent species is a major red flag. Even if she had gotten intoa fight with her sister and punched her, that would have been bad, but maybe a two alarm red flag instead of a four alarm red flag.
To take that anger out on a creature who is not permitted to defend itself (e.g., by biting) makes ME want to throw up. To WANT to kick the dog is totally understandable; to cross the line and actually DO it shows a moral compass that is haywire. Your D is screaming for help.
What if she had killed the dog in anger at your W? How would you rationalize that? How much worse does it have to get?
Sorry... there I go again... probably projecting, too.
Your sitch makes me hurt more than any other one on this board. I wish you peace, my friend.
Wow - I don't have much sage advice here. However, I do agree that you have absolutely nothing to apologize for. If W sees this as her out - LET HER GO! I believe wholeheartedly that this sitch caused your D14's acting out behavior. Refresh me - does D14 see a counselor? Your girl's need someone who can help them understand why your W does/says the things she does and why it isn't their fault. Whether W goes or stays you need to continue protecting your girls and you need to be sure that they know they are loved and cared for and that their Mom's issues are not their fault.
I cannot help but think that W's being out of the house might be the best thing. Have you ever considered a "trial separation?" while W gets hold of herself and her behaviors. Sometimes this is advocated for people who have addictions and won't stop - the family is advised to physically separate and to set certain boundaries. This is not a "legal separation" and fidelity is still expected but it gives the people space to get hold of themselves in situations that have become dangerous.
Regardless of what you decide VB - you are good man and a good Dad.
Should you apologize!!!!??? What for man? YOU DID NOTHING WRONG. What your W did was absolutely out of line and abusive....and I'm sorry to say this, but this will not get better Bube, it's very likely to get worse from here on out.
She's gotten physical with your daughter....protect her. Of course I won't condon what your daughter did with the dog at all, but nothing your daughter did deserved the treatment she received from her mother. Your W's treatment of your daughter obviously upset her enough to wretch in the bathroom....do you really want your D's living with that type of anxiety and anger?
Your W threatened to leave by the weekend.....let her. Offer to help her pack. I completely agree with your counselors advice on this Bube! Don't even worry about what she's telling other people, you and your daughters know the truth of the matter. Don't start apologizing to her for things you didn't do.
I know this is tough for you....but IMPO, if she's threatening to leave don't stop her, don't try to stop her. Her Narcissistic personality is looking for her to be the center of your world and beg her to stay....regardless of her actions. IOW she can do anything she wants....and get away with it....do you really want that?
