I'm just going to throw this out there because well...it needs to be said.
Some people simply don't have that sexual craving (I can't think of a better word right now) to want to give their partner a BJ....some people don't think about wanting to jump their partner sexually either. You do, that's apparant, that's who you are sexually....and I understand that....but what if NG just simply isn't one of those people who craves sex in that fashion? What if she is truly one of those people (and there are many of them) who is a genuine desire after arousal person?
What if...what you are wanting is simply not who she is Barn? I've noticed NG has been on the boards lately (welcome back)...so she can of course answer this for herself....but what if what you are wanting of her is truly not within her power to give you?
The reason I say that is this....back in the day when I was LD I couldn't have even imagined doing what it sounds to me you want...if I'm hearing you correctly. I couldn't have told my H "I'd been wanting to give him a BJ"...because it simply wouldn't have been true, it wouldn't have been genuine and he'd have known it. However the thought might occur to me at moment when we were already fooling around that he would like one and I'd ask or do it....but I'd be much more likely to "want" to do it for him after we'd aleady got going and I was aroused and thinking in that sexual frame of mind. I believe I read somewhere that NG said she is desire after arousal type of gal (correct me if I'm wrong here).
Every C we've been to has asked me that question I asked you (what if what you want is simply not what who she is?)...I however could never tell them that I'd be ok with it. Why? Because I had glimpses of what my H was holding back, I already knew it was in him. Is what you are now wanting of NG anything she's ever been in the past?
Gel asked: What if...what you are wanting is simply not who she is Barn?
and: Is what you are now wanting of NG anything she's ever been in the past?
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That's exactly what I was saying when I posted earlier about what I wanted may not be possible or fair to expect of her. If we're right in our speculation, how do I communicate to her what would make me feel wanted?
What would be the point to say what she couldn't do or be? Wouldn't that just hurt her more? I don't want to do that. I never have...even when I've spoken out of my anger and sexual frustration.
So...how do I stay honest and avoid the "in between" hole that this leaves me? I've either got to find another way to live with that or stay out of it altogether. And I don't know how.
We entered M as a guy who wanted a f*ckfest (as HP called it) and a woman who was overwhelmed by that. She refused and criticized what I wanted and I refused to "buy" sex with romance. I don't know if she would have wanted me or sex if I had come into the M with a different attitude or approach, but at the risk of hurting her by saying it, the answer to your question is "No, she has never been that way with me."
As you've suggested, that's another reason why what I need to feel wanted may be unfair to ask for.
I think I somewhat understood what you were saying. The morning wood was a example you gave so I went with. It is easy to be open about examples about one self but hard to not cross the line so I was just going with what was offered.
If she asked me if I wanted a BJ (or "goodnight kiss") that wouldn't do much for me. But if she said, she had been wanting to give me one, it would. If she said that she wanted me to "kiss her goodnight" or ride me into the sunset, that would do it, too, rather than asking if I wanted to.
I think this is close to what I just was referring to as being more Braizen. And how the difference of simple wordage and sentence structure in the hypo conversations with my H. In one he was stating a strong need for the other a timid well if. One I would find hot the other not so much. Both might end up in sex but only one would end up in a building of sexual tension You want a more stronger indication from NG that not only is she willing to have sex but she wants to have sex. A more domineering approach of speaking and showing her own sexual desire. The question is does NG embrace her own sexuality or desire these things enough to feel comfortable saying/doing something like
I am wet and would really like for you to be inside of me right now. Or to simply take your hand show you she is wet then tell you that you need to drop your drawers.
I think this is a issue both GEL and HP and LFL and Karen and in a odd way even CeMar have dealt with or are dealing with so this is not a uncommon issue.
They want to feel desired instead of being the one to bring on the heat. They want it to be a need in there spouse not just a response.
Ok...so what you are wanting IS something NG has never been in your R. That's what I was thinking, and that's why I suggested earlier, you may have to alter your perception of what "a good sex life" is in your R. It seems to me that NG is trying to possibly step out of her comfort zone sexually.....but the fact that you will never be able to crawl into her brain and know how she truly thinks about you sexually is a cheeseless tunnel.
IMPO Barn....you need to start coming to grips with what is reality in your R. Start appreciating what NG is trying to do to meet your needs to show you she loves you and does want you. I feel that you can only begin to move out of the place you are in once you've managed to do that....especially since what you are wanting was never in this R to begin with. I know that's probably not what you want to hear, but that is how I see it.
With acceptance can come a whole new level of trust (that's what I'm experiencing in my R right now), with that trust can come changes you'd never expect.
Well since he was discussing something directly related to you, and since it sounded like some of the things he was referring to begged for some clarification that only you could give....I thought it might help if you chimed in.
I'd hate to think some of us are telling Barn things that are way off base where you are concerned when you are around to clarify for us....but then I also figure if we were way off base, you'd chime in
I meant to add this earlier in this post to you as well. It's possible you may need a C (if you don't already have one, sorry I forgot if you are seeing one) to help you let go and accept NG for the wonderful woman she is. It's not easy to let go of that desire to have her be a certain way sexually for you, but sometimes it takes letting that "ideal" go completely and accepting that person for who they truly are and how they truly are before things really can change in your R....and that's not easy because then you feel like you are giving up on what you want....when really what you are so focused on never existed in this R to begin with, yet you still agreed to be with and marry NG as she was, at that time, anyway.
I completely agree with you! The problem is that it doesn't get me anywhere.
BTW, I first skimmed your post and came to the paragraph where you wrote an example of what SHE could say without realizing what it was. I almost lost consciousness. (The HD part of me still surfaces on occassion.)
GEL,
Good advice. I'm willing to accept it as is, but that leaves me staring into the black hole. MoJo's post on her thread about the HD incorrectly believing sexual desire being purely physical might be applicable to me.
My first thought is that acceptance in every other area is like realizing that W will never be able to cook my favorite meal. OK, I'll still be able to eat it at the local restaurant. But since this is about sex, one of my 4 basic needs (food, water, air, sex), it's more like thinking W is unable to cook my favorite food so I can never have it. I have to learn to accept what she cooks and give kudos as if it were my favorite meal.
If that's true, I'm truly screwed! Maybe MoJo is onto something about the physical need being a false belief. Unfortunately, I can't think back to any time in my life when I was unable to have sex when I was happy. Sex was always the missing component.
I feel like I've gone in a big circle on this question. The answer to the original question, "What would NG have to do to make me feel loved?" seems to be, "Whatever you do is fine. I'll accept whatever you offer." Hello black hole.
BTW, we're not seeing a C anymore. NG and I agreed that we had reached the end of what the C was able to do for us. I would be willing to again if info was the thing needed, but that's not the case, IMO. And since I know what to do, seeing a C won't make me do it. As I've told NG, somewhere along the line we've got to learn to listen to, hear, and communicate with each other when it's just us. Why not make that now?
Thank you all for your help on this. Talking further about it will just be going around the same circle again. NG prefers me not posting so I guess I'm done. I do check in on your sitches occassionally and I wish you all good luck and good sex.
BTW, I first skimmed your post and came to the paragraph where you wrote an example of what SHE could say without realizing what it was. I almost lost consciousness. (The HD part of me still surfaces on occassion.)
Well if nothing else your reaction to my simple words prove the point you find woman comfortable in speaking and showing there sexuality/desire in a strong mannor. Nothing wronge with that. The question is now that NG has seen a direct example and your response would she feel comfortable with this? Does she understand it is not about the sex but about the direct admission of want/desire for you and that you want her to be seeking self pleaser not just pleasing you. Sorta give you a chance to respond to her desire instead of her responding to yours.
Give her a few days to ponder it then ask her not here on this board but at home. Or maybe she will broach the subject with you if she choices. I don't know what your two have in agreement with both of your usage of this board. I am assuming since you both have your own threads and are not crossing into each others threads that is by agreement of some sort and that you are taking ideas and insights and your personal responses and addressing them with each other directly. Which is a good thing. Keeps all of us able to speak to you both without getting in the cross fire if something erupts.
My first thought is that acceptance in every other area is like realizing that W will never be able to cook my favorite meal. OK, I'll still be able to eat it at the local restaurant. But since this is about sex, one of my 4 basic needs (food, water, air, sex), it's more like thinking W is unable to cook my favorite food so I can never have it. I have to learn to accept what she cooks and give kudos as if it were my favorite meal.
I understand exactly what you are saying here. Makes great sense. No you should not have to pretend that what ever she cooks is your favorite meal. But maybe your craving for your favorite meal is keeping you from enjoying what she is actually cooking. And over looking the fact she is still cooking differnt things for you in hopes that you will find something that you like. On the other hand yes she should keep attempting to cook that favorite meal of yours so you do not have to do without it for the rest of your life. Just remember it may take her numorous attempts to perfect it and make it taste as good as your expectations. And your gonna have to eat the almost the right taste meals and show appreciation for them to keep her inspired to keep on trying. And you never know she might throw to much salt in it one day you find that it is better then it was in your cravings. Even if it is not exactly the same ingredience.
NG prefers me not posting so I guess I'm done.
Thats a shame but good of you to take her feelings into consideration. Maybe you can find another support website to post on or another means of support for yourself
NG prefers me not posting so I guess I'm done. I do check in on your sitches occassionally
excuse me? WTF is this?
after 7 posts? She can get advice and complain, but you cant?
Barney, Ive been trying to get some thoughts together for you. frankly Ive never done that when the W is leaning over my shoulder watching. I dont need her telling me what she likes, or doesnt.
So even though I dont think you should stop posting here, I wouldnt mind starting up a email convo with you. Its in my profile.
I think MOJO has a lot of good advice. But not so much for us guys. MO. So if you do, Im not gonna be able to offer you anything helpful.
(The HD part of me still surfaces on occassion.)
