Quote: I'm sure she'll call each day to talk to D10 before bed, and D10 will call her. I'm going to make sure I do not answer the phone, let the kids do that. And I'll try hard NOT to be available to talk. I want her to feel what it means to not have me there for support. I hope it continues to wake her up.
W just called a 1/2 hour ago. Lazy kids don't answer the phone so I pick it up on the last ring. She gives me her 'Oh hi, it's Lorri'. And I say a very nice 'hello' back to her. She apologizes for this morning, she forgot that D10's shool backpack had been left over a friends house on friday. No problem, I said, I just went over and got it after dropping D10 off at school and brought it to her in class. She said that was 'very nice' of me. Told her D15 wasn't feeling well and stayed home from school, and a few other 'family' updates.
I asked her if she was feeling less nervous now and she said she was feeling fine. She was anxious about the 'meeting' they haven't had yet - about business arrangements. She seemed annoyed.
I was of course positive and upbeat in my tone and comments. Being supportive when I could think of something supportive to say.
I felt like she didn't want to really talk to me so I told her I'd get one of the girls, and handed her off to D10. She spoke to her for 5-10 minutes. D10 offered to give her back to me, but she told her to give the phone to D15, same as last nite. She then talked to D15 for a similar amount of time.
Well, I sure have continued to feel rejected by her. It sucks, I'm trying to keep myself grounded and emotionally level. Two times she's called and been pretty indifferent.
A far cry from a few weeks ago when she called while driving home from her office and got upset that I wanted to say goodbye instead of talking to her about 'nothing' while she was driving.
Well, I asked a few days ago if I should show some compassion and buy W real bed while she is away.
When she moved out of our room into her massage room, she has been sleeping on a fold away bed which is at best painful, and at worst a hammock.
Lately she's had neck and back issues so she put the thin mattress on the floor to get better support.
Because I told her in the very beginning that if she 'wanted independence' by demanding a divorce and having an affair then she had to earn her OWN money to buy her OWN clothes, toothpaste, shampoo etc and she had to pay half the utilities while living in the house. I pay everything else.
She barely makes enough money to deal with her personal expenses and can't pay her half of the utilities. But she's trying to start her business up so I'm patient.
Well, it just pains me to see her sore every day when I could easily fork out $200 and buy a decent twin bed mattress and frame.
So, should I or not?
One vote from a friend said that would be 'so like me, to be so caring'. She felt it would be a positive by showing W that even though she want's 'out' I love her enough to do something caring like that.
Another friend says 'nope, she HAS a bed. It's in YOUR room and she chose to leave it.' She can sleep there any time she wants to. she made her choice so she has to live with it. And since she want's to be 'independent' she might take this as me showing her she can't make it on her own.
Seems like a silly thing to be discussing, but it's really part of the larger DB'ing issue of 'being the supportive one' for a spouse who has left you. I can give her anything she needs and it's been very very hard stopping myself from giving her anything material.
I do give her emotional support, but only to a point. My limits there are that I will not try to 'fix' anything for her any more. I'll listen and be understanding, but I won't put MYSELF into a position where I can be hurt.
Well, todays meeting with Counselor really was about me. About past issues with others and how I dealt with them, and why I stayed where I did for so long. But more so about being able to recognize the 'light' from the 'dark', or as others might say 'those who are good' from 'those who would use you or harm you'. I always could sense that in people but I didn't trust myself to be right. Now I do.
We talked a LITTLE about W and the recent lack of interaction we've been having. Her feeling was that W is trying her best to be 'in business WITHOUT Frank'. So, she's really having a lot on her mind and a lot of introspection. She's taking each day as it comes, trying not to look into the future. She has done that too much, sees her life as it 'might' be instead of living it as it 'is'.
The disconnect from me is really because she DOESN'T know how she feels. The time we spent together a few weeks ago gave her a 'new frame of reference' for me. Instead of her frame of reference being 'depressed, drinking Frank' she has a new view of me. A more positive one.
Her backing off from me, says C, isn't her pushing me away as much as it is her putting her energies into herself. Kind of like building a little coccoon around herself in hopes that the butterfly will come out.
When I'm detached, she does miss me as was evidenced by the calling me at my office when D15 had 'issues' and telling me that she missed my presence. She did NOT have to call me then, it was a 'temperature reading' to make sure I was "still there". Same with 'Lets hang out and watch TV' on Saturday. Temperature reading, "is Frank still there?"
And she doesn't feel the 'in love' feeling with me like she thought she felt with OM. C says that she is going through her process of learning what love is, and that she has to grow up to be able to have a 'mature' view of love, not the 'Hollywood' view.
Also, W is still processing the things I said to her weeks ago, that "I don't want to be married to someone who can't take care of themself". I didn't realize this was still in her head, but apparently it is still bothering her.
C said that when two people are around each other, and miss each others presence when they are not around each other INSTEAD of having the NEED to be around them, then most sane people will NOT push the other away from them. And it looks like that's where we are at right now. She does miss my presence and I'm missing her, not needing her.
And her feeling is THAT is where we are heading. She pointed out to me that I wasn't speaking about W in terms of what I NEEDED from her (to love ME, to be nice to ME) but I was saying that I just missed her being around, and that I realized that I'll make a pretty good single dad if I have to be.
So, her comment is that "you are both looking inside yourselves, working to find that person who you really are and to care for yourselves."
And she said (quite proudly I might add) "Instead of YOU looking at the past and punishing yourself for it, and HER looking at the future and being afraid of it, you are BOTH in the PRESENT. I finally got you both in the SAME place at the SAME time".
And, she's right. I'm done with the past, not sure about the future, and living in the present. W is done with her fantasy futures, re-examining the past for the 'good' that was in it, and living in the present, day by day.
I think that what scares me is that I just don't know what to do. Because there is NOTHING to be done. Just live life and see how it unfolds. For me, that seems crazy. You gotta have a plan! Now, my plan is to not have a plan.
I still have a little 'needyness' but it's slowly fading away. I just kinda miss her, and I think she kinda misses me. Secretly, I want her to call me and say "I miss you! I love you! I need you!" but in reality, it's not time yet. She has to 'know' that she doesn't need me to take care of her. When she knows this, she can let herself want me instead. And that wouldn't be a bad choice.
Counselor told me that she thinks it's just a matter of time now. I have a stronger presence, and she isn't needy. A much better place to be.
Oh, and she told me that she noticed I haven't said how I feel about the 'end' of her communications with OM. I hadn't thought about it, I was glad he was gone from the picture but hadn't felt 'grateful' for it. But I am grateful. He was removed from being an influence pretty quickly in the scheme of things. It could have gone on for much longer but it didn't. I guess her point is that I should be grateful that God or 'the universe' is helping out and it should give me strength to know I'm not alone in this journey.
If she dropped OM so fast, it just means that it meant nothing to begin with. No matter how horrible things were b/w the 2 of you lately....there is still the pull to each other...because there is a connection MUCH deeper than we realize.
Your C is right...the connection is still there...missing each other. Nurture it, slowly, it will come back to a solid flame. Give it gentle air and kindling. Not too much to smother it, just enough to feed it.
Sounds like you and W are growing on your own, and will come back together stronger as a unit. That's the BEST way to do it...the ONLY way. You can only find happiness in yourself and a person to share it with.
Hey Frank sorry for this post but I dont give a F@ck what any C says or anbody. You HAVE to have goals and dreams.
Your post had a lot of great info until I read that horse Sh@t. My opinion.
Dreams and goals about the future is what life is all about. I will cry myself to sleep dreaming of a future with my wife and kids until it ends by her pen before I will EVER follow what your C said regard not looking toward the future.
I heard the wisdom but it got lost in the emotion and feelings of what life is all about. Dreams and goals of the future you want; with the people you want in it.
Now maybe I did not understand but I am sure you could clarify. You were ther I was not.
It would suprise me if you were not like me in this reagrd but again maybe I missed something big that part of the post.
Quote: Hey Frank sorry for this post but I dont give a F@ck what any C says or anbody. You HAVE to have goals and dreams.
I didn't say that one shouldn't have goals and dreams. I'm talking about the abstract concepts of your FEELINGS about your goals and dreams. I have goals. I expect to construct another company, repair my family and become rich and famous. But not neccesarily in that order.
Quote: Dreams and goals about the future is what life is all about. I will cry myself to sleep dreaming of a future with my wife and kids until it ends by her pen before I will EVER follow what your C said regard not looking toward the future.
And I will too. The concept is not WORRYING and LIVING in the future. The constant 'what if's?'. You should get this better than a lot of people because you are very good at being in the 'present'. I rarely see you project yourself into a future that seems hopeless. You are usually in the present.
Read beyond the words I wrote, we're talking about abstract concepts.
Quote: It would suprise me if you were not like me in this reagrd but again maybe I missed something big that part of the post.
Then you don't need to be surprised. You and I are similar in this regard. The conversation was abut perceptions of our realities and how some of us base our reality on our past, and some base it on our PERCEIVED futures.
