Ive realized that I not only appreciate my friends here updating, good and bad, but that reciprocity is in order, since I have been subtly asked several times.
Since its not my usual modus operandi, IRL AT ALL, I am going to have to warm up to it however (despite what my pre-D sleep deprived rantings may have impressed ). Maybe just peek out and blink in the bright light a bit. Its an acknowledgement of LFL pointing out one of my manifestations that is causing me problems currently. another post though.
I feel my depression slowly ebbing, but the week of valentines, even though spent with another 'friend', only seemed to make my loss so much more..... I dont know. I didnt like it.
I grieved. first time in my life. even as a child I thought grief was a illogical emotion and a waste of time. Never allowed it in myself, even with the death of close family members. This time however it was a malignancy that I could not??? chose not to stuff.( I could hear my own advice to Chrissy. Chrissy I hope you and your aunt are well.)
Not so much the loss of my W- as the loss of what we had and what we had planned.( her emailing and calling me three times in one day, even though ignored by me, dont help. How did she get my number? What part of ' I will never see or speak to you again' spoken on D day when asked to lunch afterwards did you not understand? )
Even though my life is and will be , most certainly, not bad by anyones measurement, I have so many long term plans that were- in process -that are simply not possible anymore. Our english major Mel did a much better job of expressing this in her thread then I am doing. --> Yeah what she said. <chuckle>
Which bring me to my friend Stig and something that I want to share with you Mister, that I extracted from a Post by Nops some time ago. I saved it to return me to owning my part of the D when the anger hits and I felt myself slipping towards unforgivness/bitterness/hatred.
It was aimed(by nop) at a man who had nearly a dozen affairs under his belt, but it had merit for me. Seeing as I will never relinquish responsibility for sabotaging my marriage for reasons known? but not yet felt. This is where I see differences in you and I's situation Stig, my x said to me more then once, You broke me Blackfoot. That is really hard for me to say/revisit/admit/repeat. I wont say she was a great wife, cause it seems she lacked a little sticktoitivness, but when I was a good H, mmmmm. Damn. she was a woman. fer shur.
She is not without blame, I see it clearly with the help of our IM conversations just prior to the A, where I was quietly warning her, and she me also. anyways.... not usefull, Right Chromo? another sidebar, I was ready to quit here, I was so done, after my 3 day valentines, festivities, with this BB mostly because of my grief-- and I checked to see what was going on and Blamo Chromo drags me out of my funk unknowingly with his self esteem thread. that and some other comments that I cant remember now, that day after. so this place is good for me and because of that ya'll are stuck with me and my Un PC be a man rantings, still.
I see you reaching the anger part of your Seperation process. necessary and unavoidable. so here is that quote from Nops that helped me with the anger, and maybe you can extract something from it also, to help you with your anger.
A life is what you make of it
Quote:
A life is what you make of it. You invest in it, you work at it, but there are no guarantees. Worse yet, you have virtually no rights to anything. We have it so easy these days, that we fall off a cliff (if only this were a idiom for me ) assuming that there will be someone waiting to catch us.
Ultimately, there isn't anyone to catch us when we fall. So, we commit ourselves to relationships of various types. We basically promise to provide services to others as they promise to provide services to us. Love relationships are actually aided by brain chemistry. We were made to have those types of protective relationships; it is built into our basic survival mechanisms. Even so, love is still a choice.
When you or anyone, fails at providing the 'protective' services in a committed relationship, the partner suffers. Their trust in you broken, and their backup plan shattered, they are shaken foundationally. This is what your wife is suffering through. At least she knows that she can't trust you right now. She can find other ways to protect herself.
Confessing to your wife, however painful, at least let her know that she needed to take action to protect herself. Your act of confession, not because it made you feel better, but because she needed to know, was an act of protection. That protection is what you were supposed to be providing all along. Even though it was late, at least you cared enough to tell her. It is likely that your honesty, though delayed, will speak the loudest to her while she learns to understand what is happening.
Having said all that, your wife's part of the situation is in her contribution to the state of your marriage pre-affair(s). That does NOT, in any way, justify your actions. You betrayed her trust. Period. You must hold yourself accountable for those actions.
If you want to recover your marriage, you must learn the why of what you did, the anatomy of an affair, and why it is wrong. I am not just talking morals here, I am talking about basic principles of survival. Even if you end up married to someone else, you have to understand what you have done, so that you can avoid the same mistakes in the future.
yes neither of us is the cheat, its out of context, maybe I should stick to extrapolating for myself. It rang for me though.
Im going to tell you Stig, I dont know if you have made a decision yet, or if your current actions are a decision. But if you want your woman back, you have to go get her. You can let it happen organically, or you can know it will happen and have it happen organically... sooner. Hills premise of knowing something and making it happen apply here to. I proved that and then fudged it up.
I can point out a few WAwomen on this BB who would get back with their (x)H's, but they simply arent imbued with the right....... its not how it works. they are waiting on their (x)H.
I know I could still go get mine, but I made a decision, (I told her when she walked out second time, 'I wont do the mating dance with you a third time.' She looked at me like 'HUH??') and I dont change them when I have reasonble logical motivators. No matter what my heart(stupid brain chemistry) says.
Nops if you read this, if you know of any books to assist me in fixing my issue 1. that you posted to me before, why I played relational leap frog, I would appreciate it. Even if the focus is biological, rather then pysch focused. I have my own thoughts, but I would like some veracity.
enough for now, I gots to sleep before I get paid to play this morning.
Its an acknowledgement of LFL pointing out one of my manifestations that is causing me problems currently. Oh uh, what did I say now? Or is it the oldies but goodies: The player comment? The beer rather than wine comment? If it is bothering you currently, do share.
Glad you are a little less depressed lately. I thought V-Day might be hard for you. Sounds like you had a "friend" to keep you company. Is this related to the above?
I'm sorry that Valentine's Day was rough. We all had a discussion of what a stupid holiday it was. Anyway, maybe next year will be better.
I'm glad to hear you use the word grieve. I was concerned that you would think/logical your way through this process and miss the very real growth that can occur. Of course, you must grieve. Of course, it isn't exactly about the actual person but it is absolutely about the false view we had of that person and even about the false views we had of ourselves. And of course, the plans and goals. Weren't we supposed to ride off ito the sunset together? I think you are doing wonderfully.
The grief stage is not endless. It does pass and then it arises again at weird times. I had this bizarre sense of guilt when I started dating again. Felt like I was cheating. Had a need not to talk about my new R with people who I normally would - my Mom, my best friend. I didn't want to share it with anyone. I felt as if it could be jinxed somehow. I had to revisit some of the grief during that time too.
My point is that there are a series of stages and you are doing just fine. I'm glad you are seeing friends and I'm glad you are still keeping up with us hopeless cases (mostly me).
So let me get this straight. You've started a new thread and are doing the sorting out/reflecting journaling...
whilst simultaneously dragging me out of my own cave into the light? (kicking and screaming I might add) GM-Chrysler.
Oh, wait...what am I saying. blackfoot. Nothing more than a mere artificial intelligence program designed by the fine folks at MWD Central to make me believe I'm crazy and actually talking to some weird extension of my own head. Hmmm, that's a new DB technique. Wonder if it's in a potential new book? "If you think you're crazy, it will keep you occupied and allow you to spend much less time obsessing over your R."
Well, it's obvious I'm going to have to journal at some point. And, btw, I DO NOT spill like this IRL. No Fing way. I guess that's why I am so guarded as to my anonymity at this point. I know the more RL connection I make the more I will retreat and withdraw. An F in RL reading my circuitous ramblings would know all of the right Stigmata buttons to push and I'd have to spend a year in my lab devising new ones to thwart her...providing I have not reconciled. Which is becoming less and less of an urge at present. But it changes on a daily basis, as those of us know.
I am not being chased. Nor am I chasing. Detente I guess you would call it. My biggest hurdle right now is what I feel in relation to Lust for Life.
The feeling of, "all the BS I had to endure...stress...blah blah blah" and you dump ME?" WTF? Resentment and bitterness central. So I guess I'm waiting for some kind of show of effort to initiate R discussion from her.
But I know what you're going to say already (because you're my co-AI program remember). She will not do this. Will avoid. Feels a big sense of guilt--which I think she does IMO.
Also, I need to know the truth as to OM situation. I told her night of bomb to please give me the respect to be honest with me if it were an attraction to another M. Would make my life a hell of a lot easier. I am a black and white kind o guy. Said no. Fine. But then I think, "she knows I have no problem cutting someone who really hurts me out of my life. And she genuinely loves me. Said it would destroy her to lose me into the ether." Saying "Yes" to OM attraction would guarantee that. And we both know it.
Stigmata Catch 22. Frying pans and fires. Rocks and hard places. And it's becoming apparent that if I want an R I will have to now lead the peace talks. And not R stuff. "Like it never happened!" talks. She obviously doesn't want to go there. But to be her friend again. This is very hard for me as I am still smarting from her zero effort to even discuss anything, let alone talk to an third-person counselor. And this after investing a massive amount of emotional,, mental, financial blah blah blah real estate towards what I thought was a bond between two people in love with an "us against the world" outlook for 7 years of my life.
And that's why I like what you've pasted in your thread from the NOPs. I will re-read this because, yes, I do see a lot of good applicable info here. I hold myself 100 percent accountable for my part in the demise of this thing. No, I am not the cheater; nor will I ever be a cheater having had it happen to me and feeling the utter collapse of all of my manly man sensibilities. Plus I try and live with self respect and integrity. Because, without that, I really couldn't look myself in the mirror each day.. Yes, you can break my heart. Yes, you can take all I have away and all I cherish to be important in my life. But you cannot take this away from me. It's mine to protect and mine to potentially destroy.
Just like a study i read. Examined successful big companies in various industries. And examined their less successful rivals with same business model. In each and every case the more successful company was lead by a leader with unshakeable character. Bar none. While a large majority of the less successful but otherwise equivalent companies were led by leaders with questionable ethics etc. company policies and/or allowances.
So I guess I will know more as I start feeling out where our communications level is. Until then I really have to watch my inability to sleep, my diet and exercise, and my game plan as to how I can make myself into more of an retainable M...through the hard lessons I have learned about myself and my negative contributions to this painful episode of my life.
-Stigmata-
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
Blackie, I meant to ask you what on earth she meant by "You broke me blackfoot"...?
Did YOU know what she meant?
Oh and I wanted to tell you that MrH and I talked last night about how different he feels since he is getting a full night's sleep. Unbelievable difference! Truly it is amazing, the impact on his body, attitude and our R. He's able to stay up in the evenings (which is wonderful but the tv every night is gettin old) and we spend time together in the morning. You were soooooooo right about this.
Just curios. How long have you been in the resentment stage? Why are you hanging on to it? What's it doing for you? (I'm asking this in my very gentle female voice, not my club carrying Corri voice). Very contradictory to your Zen musings/mantras... un-taoist of you... got any thoughts?
Quote: Also, I need to know the truth as to OM situation.
Hire a detective and get the question answered for yourself so you can deal, one way or the other. Unless you don't want to know, which is cool... but get rid of the obsession.
Quote: if I want an R I will have to now lead the peace talks.
Why can't you sleep? Anxiety? Depression? Can't shut off the mental images/voices?
Do you want the R? If you do, go get your wife. If you don't know yet, I get it.
Answer if you want, don't if you can't. Not pushing.
My D is supposed to be final one week from Friday. The one thing I will always remember is when I told him I wanted out, he said to me, "I don't have time for this."
Your a strange bird Stigmata. And I do mean that as a compliment. Really! Yes, your circuitous ramblings have me double and triple checking the poster to see who the heck is writing now, Stig or BF. Freaky twin minds living on opposite ends of the country. Separated at birth perhaps. Anyways, your comments regarding The feeling of, "all the BS I had to endure...stress...blah blah blah" and you dump ME?" WTF? Resentment and bitterness central. So I guess I'm waiting for some kind of show of effort to initiate R discussion from her. Major blow to the ego. Understandable. Resentment Central for sure. And your plan to wait for her to show some effort is probably the right one. I mean specifically related to the R. But to be her friend again. This is very hard for me as I am still smarting from her zero effort to even discuss anything, let alone talk to an third-person counselor. BTDT. The more I pushed, the further he went. You NEED to be a friend to her IF you want have a chance of healing the R. If not, then take the BF approach, no contact even if she initiates. That's up to you. My sense is you would really like to have her back despite all the hurt. I know I feel for you. It's a hard stage to get through. she genuinely loves me. Said it would destroy her to lose me into the ether. Heard same from H from beginning to end of separation and we are now back together so hold on to that (if you want). Sometimes their words really are more meaningful than their actions. Their actions suck but their feelings are still real, still salvagable. Don't give up on those 7 years if you are not ready to. But know that it will be on her terms for a while. Until the tide turns and she now wants to prove her words through her actions again. So I guess I will know more as I start feeling out where our communications level is. Is it totally off the radar right now? Do you talk at all? I think you need to start doing that. Maintain a connection, even if it is painful. I can feel the love you have for her in your posts even if you are fighting resentment. To steal from HP, she would be LUCKY to have you as her H again.
- Yes. Me give Corri big headache on thread. Now Corri give Stigmata big headache on Blackmata/Stigfoot thread. Reciprocity is 9/10ths of the....law? landica? landica?
Just curios. How long have you been in the resentment stage? Why are you hanging on to it? What's it doing for you?
- Ohhhhh, only since the morning I went and rented the UHaul and threw all of my chit into the back of it 4 months ago is all.
(I'm asking this in my very gentle female voice, not my club carrying Corri voice).
- Huh? What's this voice I hear? Hmmmmm....whenever I hear Fs change their tonality I know 2 things. A. They are trying to wheedle something out of me via their sweet melodic liltings. (After which I of course cave every time.) Or they're sending an important communication to my tiny brain via various tonal variation testings for me to "get it";and it eventually ends up in the grand finale of wanton screaming for me to "think, man, think!"
Very contradictory to your Zen musings/mantras... un-taoist of you... got any thoughts?
- Yeah, really. Percolating resentment. Not very Taoism According To Stig. Yeahs about now I'm feelin' like Jimmy Swaggart sitting in his car down some dark alley with one hand on a nudie mag and the other on his....ahem. (yikes, close to "amen.")
Also, I need to know the truth as to OM situation. Hire a detective and get the question answered for yourself so you can deal, one way or the other. Unless you don't want to know, which is cool... but get rid of the obsession.
- You're right. But this is the big test for me. Need more convos eventually about the fallout. If verbal yes to OM (and not via private dick) I will respect that and more than likely move on and be cordial but superficial in future contact. If no no no and turns out to be OM then it's the nail in the coffin. Zero trust. No friends. No contact. No acknowledgement till death do I take part. A friend doesn't lie to me like that about such an huge issue to protect self. I deserve better.
But I have to hear the verbals. Need to at some point deconstruct where things went awry in mutual setting. Private dick wouldn't give me that putting her on the witness stand (not to grill, just the deposition stuf) answer.
Why can't you sleep? Anxiety? Depression? Can't shut off the mental images/voices?
- Major major pain sandwich and I'm the dead meat. V Day is stupid made up day for Hallmark to peddle their drivel but always did something special. First time it was just another day. And now x birthday to deal with. Double barrels into the old ticker KWIM?
Do you want the R? If you do, go get your wife. If you don't know yet, I get it.
- Uh. Yeah, the second one.
Answer if you want, don't if you can't. Not pushing.
Oh yes you are. Or you wouldn't have asked, dear.
My D is supposed to be final one week from Friday. The one thing I will always remember is when I told him I wanted out, he said to me, "I don't have time for this."
- WTF? Man, that would make my life soooooo much easier right now. Criminy. "I don't have time to give over to (what, the last 14 years?) of our lives."
The only single instance where I can ever ever ever justify myself or someone else saying this exact line to my/their SOs would have to be while I'm at the controls of a plummeting commercial jet....with air traffic control shouting directions in one ear and my W/SO screaming into my other ear about wanting out. Here that response fits pretty well IMO.
Summed it all up for me pretty nicely
And how.
-Stigmata-
PS. Using soft Stig voice and not angry man meltdown at GEL's H voice now to you, Corri. Good luck with the D date. BTW. Had long talk with best friend today. His D just finalized yesterday after 2.5 years of S/Reco/S etc. theatrics. We actually laughed. He said. Ya know? It's weird. It's like having an aggravating neighbor livinng in the apt. next to you....blasting horrible music every night for years. And suddenly one day he moves. And it's all quiet. Like...where the hell is that damned anoying music that keeps me up all night? How am I gonna sleep now with all of this peace, calm and quiet? Sheesh!
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
- Yeah. That name was already taken. So I settled on Stigmata. Plus with this whole avian flu thing going on and all. Wanted SOMEBODY to at least talk to me. And I do mean that as a compliment. Really!
- Thanks! (and I do mean that as an acceptance of your alleged "compliment.")
Yes, your circuitous ramblings have me double and triple checking the poster to see who the heck is writing now, Stig or BF. Freaky twin minds living on opposite ends of the country. Separated at birth perhaps.
- Hear that, BF/MWD AI program? Email me your DNA analyses please. Oh, LFL. Twins. That would entail a 4-year long labor. Ouch! Looking at our age differences. Of course I popped out of our mom first. Blackie needed to cook a little longer AS USUAL.
Anyways, your comments regarding The feeling of, "all the BS I had to endure...stress...blah blah blah" and you dump ME?" WTF? Resentment and bitterness central. So I guess I'm waiting for some kind of show of effort to initiate R discussion from her. Major blow to the ego. Understandable. Resentment Central for sure. And your plan to wait for her to show some effort is probably the right one. I mean specifically related to the R.
- Yes. Nada word of R stuff from her. No big surprise from what I've learned after finding this site. Still pizzes me off tho.
But to be her friend again. This is very hard for me as I am still smarting from her zero effort to even discuss anything, let alone talk to an third-person counselor. BTDT. The more I pushed, the further he went. You NEED to be a friend to her IF you want have a chance of healing the R.
- How'd you get through this? Cripes. Before re-reading DR. Like trying to catch a fish with your bare hands--the "pushing." "Hey, I've been thinking about you..." Thwip! Gone. Dangit! Slippery sucker! WTH.
If not, then take the BF approach, no contact even if she initiates. That's up to you. My sense is you would really like to have her back despite all the hurt. I know I feel for you. It's a hard stage to get through.
- Well, I can honestly say the more days the chemicals drip out of my system the less motivated I am. I'd like to have more answers before the "having back." Jury's still deliberating 11-1 and it's that obstinate freaking last juror who's keeping everybody eating pizza and wanting to wring his scrawny little neck.
Is it totally off the radar right now? Do you talk at all?
- Rarely. Email once in while. I never initiate. She's immersed herself in conquering the business world it would seem. Plus, I stopped responding in kind after hearing the "cordiality." Say if my name were always Bob and suddenly she's calling me "Robert." WTF? Don't act like I'm some d!ck off the street please.
I think you need to start doing that. Maintain a connection, even if it is painful.
- Yes, it is painful. Bullseye.
I can feel the love you have for her in your posts even if you are fighting resentment. To steal from HP, she would be LUCKY to have you as her H again.
- Really? That comes across? Hmmm, will have to think about that. I thought maybe it was the JR Ewing kind of "love." "The woman Stigmata and all of Stigmata's friends love to hate."
...Oh, and that second part. What in tarnation are you trying to do to me, Woman/Women? Give me self-esteem? Poppycock! I'm supposed to be getting that over on Chromo's thread.
-Stigmata-
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
). 
Maybe just peek out and blink in the bright light a bit. Its an acknowledgement of LFL pointing out one of my manifestations that is causing me problems currently. 
did you not understand? ) 
That is really hard for me to say/revisit/admit/repeat. I wont say she was a great wife, cause it seems she lacked a little sticktoitivness, but when I was a good H, mmmmm. Damn. she was a woman. fer shur. 
I feel for you. It's a hard stage to get through.
