Hi Gjug! It's been a long time since I've been here and I was most intrigued when I spotted your new thread here in Piecing. Sounds like not much has changed since you started this journey? (How's the pole dancing class? )
Quote: He said that is a problem for him and although I can understand it from him point of view, I don't think he has even though of putting himself in my shoes.
Empathy is a funny thing, because it requires one to also reciprocate. Have you tried putting yourself in his shoes as well? I know you've done some introspection and IC on your own stuff, so please know I'm not at all slamming you.
Along with the legions of other posters who have come and gone here, I join the ranks with you and Gratefulmama. After having babies and living a most hectic life, I also gained some weight and found little time to schedule time to exercise. While my XH would NEVER come out and say my weight gain was a problem for him, it showed up in all sorts of other aspects of our married life.
I often wondered what kind of callous person would dismiss someone lovable who battled weight issues post partum? But I challenge you to dig a whole lot deeper than that simple statement or concept.
It took some C on my own (in a weight loss setting) to actually put on the shoes of my XH and see things from his POV. I gained 40 lbs, and while I'm tall like GM and was able to hide some of it awfully well, it was there for everyone to see.
What did he see? Well, he definitely saw an overweight middle aged woman. But that was on the surface. It was everything that simmered below the facade that seemed to radiate with more vehemence. Under that fatty exterior was a woman who rarely took charge of her own health. It was a woman who pretended that the family needed her more (giving her a martyr-like/victim complex) instead of finding willpower to schedule self care. Self care not for the purpose of turning on her man, but for her own needs and desires.
He also saw a woman who lacked self confidence... who was filled with self loathing, and whose angry tendencies for being less than seemed to take on a life of its own.
Do you see what I'm getting at? The extra weight I carried was tangible evidence of my desperation and unhappiness... not with him (as I chose to state) but with myself. I hated the way I looked. I hated the way I felt, and I couldn't seem to find a place to begin to change. Worse, I didn't even see myself as worthy of change, so I remained stuck. It's no wonder that he felt I could never change. The fact is, I'd shown him little evidence that I would and could change--even for myself.
The more I blamed him for retreating from me, the more isolated we became. And it became a horribly lonely, desperate spiral downward.
But for the grace of God, I chose to start working on my own self perception. When I was good and ready, I took on the self challenge to lose weight (which occurred about a year later). I had been exercising all along, but it just became a little more important to me. Except for the crappy 5 lbs I put on post gall bladder surgery, I've kept the weight off for 2 years now. I'm working at taking those 5 off as I write this! It wasn't as tough as I thought it would be... and I think that is mainly due to the fact that I knew I could change and committed myself to changing all aspects of my life. The rewards were tremendous.
My D12 told me after church tonight, "You know something, Mom? You look better than most people your age, and I'm not joking. I'm proud of you!"
It all boils down to a simple concept, ladies. It's not just the exterior that others see and judge, it's our willingness to become the women we desperately want to be and deserve to be. THAT'S what radiates from our souls.
Gjug, I know your battle with depression has been your toughest challenge, and I admire you for tackling it and working diligently at changing how you think. Keep moving forward!
I'm not going to answer your biggest question, because that's very personal and only one you can answer. He may be just as depressed as you have been, and I'd be willing to bet on it. If he were to leave, what would you be doing differently to take care of yourself? And if so, what's preventing you from doing it right now?
I hope this makes sense... I've had no caffeine today, and I'm sure it's affecting my brain power.
Hugs,
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Sorry to hijack here. I don't have much to say, but am in the same situation. I think I see a lot of tangible points in what underdog wrote. I'm in a point right now where I am feeling sorry for myself because the reconnection phase is really dragging......and I am very impatient. Underdog, thanks for pointing out about working on the inside. I've been so busy working on my exterior, that I have neglected what is inside!!
It is so nice to hear from you! To those of you reading this, I need to point out that I would not be where I am without the kind (and sometimes not so gentle!) advise of Underdog and others.
To answer your question about pole dancing, it has gone by the wayside. It started out as a group of like-aged women in a really comfortable setting. As time went on I started enjoying it less and less as the women joining became not only slimmer but much younger! Somehow, it wasn't the same so I haven't been for a while.
Quote: Empathy is a funny thing, because it requires one to also reciprocate. Have you tried putting yourself in his shoes as well?
This is something I can honestly say I have done alot of. My H asked me not long ago how I am able to forgive the things that he has done and my answer was that I put myself in his shoes and understood the "why's". After alot of reading, I've realised that we have been reacting to each others actions (or inactions). Unfortunatly, we haven't always interpeted those actions from the other person's point of view and often had it wrong.
What is frustrating is that I have done so much work on myself and understanding why we got to the place where we are that I am ready to move on and re-build our marriage. He is not. I figure that it is like when he dropped the "bomb" a year ago. It had been going around in his mind for a long time before he actually said the words. He had got to his point of wanting change, but I was blind to it.
So, what do I do now? The way I see it, I have two choices. Either focus on myself and enjoy his friendship or walk away and cut off that friendship. I choose to stay for a couple of reasons. One is that I am still not in a place where I can say that I have recovered from this depression and have taken the risks I need to in order for me to be happy with myself. I am doing more and am in the process of reducing the meds, so it is coming....slowly. The second reason to stay is to give my H more time (and myself) for that friendship to grow into something more. THat is my hope. Another reason is the kids. They are happy and settled and the last thing I want to do is put them through any heartache - although I can occasionally see them watching and wondering whether my H and I will stay together.
Quote: Do you see what I'm getting at? The extra weight I carried was tangible evidence of my desperation and unhappiness... not with him (as I chose to state) but with myself. I hated the way I looked. I hated the way I felt, and I couldn't seem to find a place to begin to change. Worse, I didn't even see myself as worthy of change, so I remained stuck. It's no wonder that he felt I could never change. The fact is, I'd shown him little evidence that I would and could change--even for myself.
The more I blamed him for retreating from me, the more isolated we became. And it became a horribly lonely, desperate spiral downward.
Wow, well said. I think that I will really have to do more work in this area - both relating to my weight and the depression. You are right - my H has not seen a change in this area at all. The initial weight I lost after the "bomb" has all creeped back on. Although he may see some change in my outlook on life and my ability to pick myself up when I start heading down, the problem with my "self" is still there. This for me is where I am stuck. Maybe I need to be pushed over the edge - if I could just think of something to do, I'm sure I could find the courage to do it. But what?
They say your past holds the keys to what you really want but have shoved down in order to live a life that is "proper" or according to the accepted rules. I have been down that path before, and still have not come up with anything that lights my fire. So I have tried things that normally I wouldn't do, but admittedly, they are all pretty "safe" things (pole dancing has been my biggest risk and maybe that was for shock value more than anything else).
So, I can't prove to my H that I can change unless I change. I can't change unless I can make the steps towards changing. I can't make the steps unless I know what direction to go in. I can't know which direction I want to go in until I know what I want. Again, I'm back at square one. If I could get past this, I know my life would take a major turn and I would beat this depression forever.
So, these are some of my thoughts today. When the PMS hits again, I'll see things from the bottom, but at least I know it is only temporary.
Sometimes we just have to hold our breath and jump into the cold water. IOW, don't let fear rule your life - be adventurous, take calculated risks, find what makes you passionate. Think about what you fear, for instance, I had a fear of public speaking so I joined Toastmasters to overcome it. I am still nervous about talking in public, but I have managed to control it with all that I learned at TM. The less things you have to fear, or you have control over, the more life becomes more enjoyable - for me, anyway.
I know that depression isn't about just getting over it. This is a disease that needs to be treated. It all takes time, and I think you are doing the right thing by giving yourself time to work it all out.
Hope your week goes well.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
I'm so glad you found your way back. My DSL connection has been down most of the day, but I'm slowly catching up.
Quote: This is something I can honestly say I have done alot of. My H asked me not long ago how I am able to forgive the things that he has done and my answer was that I put myself in his shoes and understood the "why's". After alot of reading, I've realised that we have been reacting to each others actions (or inactions). Unfortunatly, we haven't always interpeted those actions from the other person's point of view and often had it wrong.
Oh, no, I know that! But it was more a rhetorical question for everyone... I meant to follow it up by commenting that it seems your H is lacking the empathy gene? Perhaps he didn't have great role models in this area... though it's never too late to learn.
Quote: They are happy and settled and the last thing I want to do is put them through any heartache - although I can occasionally see them watching and wondering whether my H and I will stay together.
Yes, I understand this one well too. Kids are ultra perceptive, but with a different spin than parents. We worry about their welfare. They worry about themselves, and that's the way it should be. Seems like you've really stated and made your choice here, G:
Quote: I choose to stay for a couple of reasons.
Even if you arrived at this statement by process of elimination, you've still made a choice. Now, what are you going to do to affirm that choice and remain positive and resolved about it?
Being me hit the proverbial nail on the head, G. You said:
Quote: can't make the steps unless I know what direction to go in. I can't know which direction I want to go in until I know what I want.
Are you so sure about that last statement? How can you know what you want until you actually try something... anything? Remember the story of the cheshire cat in Alice and Wonderland? Pick something and give it a whirl. If you don't enjoy it, try something else. But the important thing is to pick something and work hard at it.
Lastly, here's something else to chew on:
Quote: So, I can't prove to my H that I can change unless I change.
No... more importantly, you undoubtedly want to prove to yourself that you can change. That's the ONE distinction that will get you lasting results, my friend. The changes we make for ourselves are the ones that really matter.
(And ironically, those are the ones that they can see most clearly.)
So, the big question is really what you want to change for yourself?
Hugs!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Interesting topic....in these stressful times, it's so hard to focus on the demise of your M and working on you. Then, you wake up and realize that in small ways, you've already started.
In a similar situation myself, I found myself in limbo land and "acting as if" and obsessing over M. I still do, and I initially took focusing on me to mean my marital behaviors and didn't see the full picture.
Despite our turmoil, H pushed me to start working out, just to get healthier...I started and FELT GREAT...mind you, I hadn't done that in 10 years. I started going on my own, and saw that it really helped pull me out of a major depressed hole on days...really lifted my mood and self-work. I felt stronger after a workout. That made me go more...kinda like meds. I started small, and worked my way up gradually. Do it for YOU, your health, your body, to feel good about you. You need that now more than ever.
I guess I'm missing the part of feeling stuck on changing b/c you don't have a path and direction. Do you mean in reference to the direction of your M? Can you instead focus on things that do not have to do with the direction of your M? Independent of H and M? Like health, socializing, other hobbies, etc. For me, it came slowly, and was like a wake-up call when I realized how much I could do NOT tied to H, except for in my mind, which was up to me to cut off. Really, little in life is tied to them...it's powerful to realize that.
Speaking of health, we had a thread on here, that we can revive if folks want to join...
Why is it Underdog that whenever I think I've figured out everything, you give me something else to think about!? Thank you.
Quote: I meant to follow it up by commenting that it seems your H is lacking the empathy gene?
Hmmm. Well, that could be true as a child, empathy wasn't something that you showed unless there was a public reward for it. In his defense, I will say that he has put up with my depression and weight for over ten years - any empathy will wear thin after that amount of time.
Quote: Are you so sure about that last statement? How can you know what you want until you actually try something... anything?
Again, hmmm. I think I'm tired of trying and not finding. I've run out of ideas that appeal to me. And I think that is very sad. Surely there is more out there than I see? How to find it is the problem. Being a stay-at-home Mom and work at home bookkeeper doesn't give me alot of opportunities to meet other people. Others like me in this area tend to be younger or over 65. Not alot of fun!
I think that my ordeal with depression is what I have to share with the world, but finding a way to do that hasn't been easy. I really don't want to go back to school for years - no interest in that. Any ideas would be appreciated!
I welcome you to go visit Always, as she has a really good head for this sort of stuff...
Quote: Again, hmmm. I think I'm tired of trying and not finding.
G, my D12 said this to me just yesterday: "Mom, did you realize that the word try is just another way of saying that we set ourselves up for failure before we begin?"
And, as usual, I have no answers for you. Only questions!
Quote: I think that my ordeal with depression is what I have to share with the world, but finding a way to do that hasn't been easy. I really don't want to go back to school for years - no interest in that. Any ideas would be appreciated!
Somehow, I don't think throwing solutions at you is appealing for you. So how about this: Why not throw down a few ideas--no matter how ludicrous they sound and without trying to mentally pre-justify any excuses on why they aren't feasible--and take it from there?
If it's any consolation, G, I am now at the point where I can admit I hardly EVER have anything figured out--even when I think I do. There are so many unknown variables that I can only say I go on what I do know... and leave the rest up to chance.
Hey, I'm getting my hair done today as well! I bet I need my beautification more than you do...
Take care!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Ugh....maybe I'm not such an inspiration now....very confused and feeling emotional.
BUT, if I could make a shameless plea, could you 2 wise ladies hop on the thread and give advice, your opinions? I sure could use it...to get my head back on straight.
My 2 cents to juggle....yes, deal with the depression (certainly, this phase in life doesn't help)....the best thing you can do is put the agony of the M in the back of your mind, and focus on you, and being happy (easier said than done, as you can see with my minor meltdown of late).
Tackle one thing at a time. What do you want to change first. At this fragile time, it's hard to handle the prospect of changing ALL of you to that fabulous person you want to be. Making small changes will give you a + boost and the rest will come. You're feeling stuck, for so long. Time to unstick.
Besides focusing on YOU....what can you do that's different to unstick the R? Again, maybe a little talk? Betsey can pipe in on the keys of authentic communication...which, when done at the right time and way, is awesome (I did 2 weeks ago and it was wonderful--but then all slid downhill for unknown reason). I can bet that H isn't as happy with the status quo as you think but maybe fears the talk...and besides the men on these boards, it doesn't seem to me that men initiate this sort of thing.
Just try the talk...maybe a small one? practice it, have only a few points, but most of all, work on how you intend to be composed, how you will act/react, how you will listen and speak.
It seems that the 2 of you have had a long time with good feelings, respect and peace--such that it's a great foundation for a talk.
Okay, so I had almost finished writing a post that was not only brilliant, enlightening and witty, but answered all our questions. Of course it was sucked into cyber space never to be seen again. Too bad my memory is so bad these days that I can't remember a word I wrote!
Underdog-
Quote: I don't think throwing solutions at you is appealing for you
You're right - I would probably just find excuses why none of your suggestions would work. I'm good at that - hey I've found a talent of mine!
So how is this for a list?
1) Call my C (who I haven't seen since Dec) and see what she is up to. She once asked if I could co-facilitate a group for middle-aged women (hey, middle-aged? I'm only 39!) on depression and anxiety.
2) Contact Community Services to volunteer - even if it is just in an office somewhere.
I do have many restrictions that I have put on myself though (see, I'm already finding excuses). A friend told me I was unemployable because of these things! The most important thing is that I get my kids off to school in the morning and pick them up (we have no bus system here). We spend time together after school talking about the latest crisis (there is ALWAYS a crisis of some kind - especially with the girls!). I also often have my kids' friends wanting to talk to me about what is going on with them. It is not unusual to find extra kids in the house.
I also don't want to be tied up on weekends because that is the only time my H is home. My S15 also works a couple afternoons a week and both him and D13 are in Sea Cadets twice a week. On the days they go to that, my D11 like to go to Grandma & Granpa's to watch "their" shows together. None of those things are things I am willing to give up. I am so lucky to be able to do these things with them and be there and they mean alot to me.
Quote: Hey, I'm getting my hair done today as well! I bet I need my beautification more than you do...
Ha! I doubt that, but I have to admit that I look fabulous! Too bad my H won't be home for another 10 days.
Always - I intend to get over to your thread when I have the chance to read your history a bit. It sounds like you've been at this awhile.
Quote: what can you do that's different to unstick the R?
Hmmm....good question. I think that my H runs like the dickens when ever he sees that "let's talk" look in my eyes. But he does have good reason. I seem to want to talk when I feel very emotional (meaning bawling my eyes out) - usually PMS time - so our talks have not been all that productive as he will just shut down, leave or tell me something I don't want to hear (I think because he feels cornered and strikes back).
I think that the real key for us will be for me to work on myself and make some real, lasting changes. My attitude has improved greatly and I am taking care of myself better (ie hair, clothes, makeup), but my weight is still an issue for me and finding a purpose outside my role and wife and mother (whether it be work or play) are at the top of my list. Like you said a while back, Underdog, my weight is a reflection of how I feel about myself. Once I feel better about myself, for myself, I think I will not struggle as much with the weight.
Yes, my H has a problem with my weight. But I too can see it through his eyes. I was slim when we married and lost my pregnancy weight after my first two kids. It was then I started my stuggle with depression and anxiety and my weight went down to 95lbs. Within the first three months of being pregnant with my third, I gained 50 lbs and have kept it on (and then some) for the last 11 years. Shallow or not, I am not physically the woman he married and I can understand his disappointment.
So, today (if I ever get away from this computer) I am going to enjoy the beautiful sun (it is sometimes rare here outside of Vancouver, BC). I am going to contact my C and send a "breathe" email to my H (he is having a very stressful time at work right now). I may have a nap in the sun with my cat. When I go out to do some banking for the business, I am going to get a Tim Hortons coffee and sit in the park across my kids' school and wait for them to finish. No housework today (actually I have laundry to do) and minimal office work (of course I say that while looking at the piles of paper on my desk!). And I am NOT going to feel guilty about any of it!
)
Betsey 