Another Thursday

[PArob]

My first official lock-out! I feel like a vet now.

In any event, Thursdays are usually the worst days for me, but so far this one hasn't been either bad or good. Not much new to really report. W has decided to take some time and get away for the weekend, which leaves me alone with the girls! We've had a rough couple of weeks, especially with my recent backslide and I think this time away will give us an opportunity to clear our heads and maybe re-focus efforts.

Truthfully, I really do not know what to do going forward in this R. I'm having some serious reservations about continuing on the path that I have been for the past few months. So many lies, betrayal, deceit, etc...it has really worn me down. I love my W dearly, but there is a LOT of emotional damage here and I really am afraid that I will come to resent her for it. One of the thins that just boggles my mind is that my W continually expresses her love for me, ackowledges that there is a lot of good in this M, and knows that she doesn't want to be without me. Yet, despite all these positive feelings about our R, she still refuses, or can't, shake her addiction to the OM. It seems to me that in reading the posts here, that this is somewhat of a unique sitch.

Whatever the case, I believe that I must start to effectuate some changes in my behavior and also start making changes for myself. I believe that I have lost my identity in this M and have traditionally gone along with the program because I thought that was what a spouse was supposed to do. I avoided confrontation when I could and would do anything I could to please her. Maybe this is where I've gone wrong. In any event, I must GAL and start making positive changes in my life.

Well, most of this was probably rambling, I don't think I can even make sense of it today. But at least it has given me the chance to throw some stuff at the wall and see what sticks. Hope everyone else is doing good on this Thursday! Thanks for checking in.

[Tim297181]

One of the thins that just boggles my mind is that my W continually expresses her love for me, ackowledges that there is a lot of good in this M, and knows that she doesn't want to be without me. Yet, despite all these positive feelings about our R, she still refuses, or can't, shake her addiction to the OM. It seems to me that in reading the posts here, that this is somewhat of a unique sitch.

You are not unique Rob!
My W does the same thing. She does not do it often but she stills how great I am, how she still loves me, and that she could not do everything she is doing in school without me! Then she goes and disappears to talk to the OM or goes to her "study group". Or she just openly goes and has him pick her up at the house!
All I know is it can be torture, and we can not do anything to change them. They have to go throught he motions and decide how long we want to wait it out. The trick on waiting is detatching and working on ourselves!

[WantToSaveIt]

I hear ya' Rob. I'm still following your sitch, and still think you and I have much in common with our sitch's.

Something I've wondered, and your post here just jogged my memory:

For guys in sitch's like ours, you have to ask yourself, "What if I didn't know anything at all? Would things be all that bad?" In other words what's worse, the A, or us knowing there is an A?

I mean, I can understand how bad it is for some out there, and in many ways I feel I should count my blessings, but there are some who are truly in bad shape, their S has walked away, and they are alone on top of being betrayed.

I wonder what if we knew nothing? We are hurting because we KNOW what happened (or may or may not still be happening), but things are actually ok, if not pretty good on the home front.

I'm not saying ignorance is bliss, because on the other hand, would there even be more intimacy, affection and love if there was nobody else in the picture?

Without going into another rehashed diatribe of what I've read other say, I think you and I should stick together with what we are doing. If we keep DB'ing, the W's will come around. I want to believe the stat I read that most A's die on their own 6 months - 2 years.

Granted, I think I'm luckier than most in that I have more safety because OM is 3000 miles away, and other than possible continuing EA via email,etc. and maybe 1 rendezvous a year, there ain't much for a foundation of a relationship there.

But still....

Didn't mean to hijack, but just some stuff to chew on. I hear you, Rob.

[grasshopper]

WTSI,

Great post! I know Rob won't mind (will you?) if I follow that up.
I think we all struggle with that. I think that we HAVE to know in order to benefit from it. What I mean is that the knowing is the wake up call we all got. Now, after that, I am a firm believer in NOT knowing any more than I have to. I know enough to know that my M is in serious trouble and that I need to work on myself to not only be better in my M but better in my life. I ask people all the time; what would it help for you to know xxxxx about the OM or A? There is never really a good answer beyond the eventual "well if she did this with him I would divorce her instantly." That is crap and we know it. If we were willing to do that based on some self defined line, then we would have already done it.
I do struggle with not knowing specifics but I think I would only suffer for knowing them. It is enough for me to imagine what they may or may not have done. I don't need pictures. When I do find things out, it sets me back a long way in this process. I can admit that.
I think some of the details are what prevent us from forgiving later on. Visuals have a habit of not leaving our minds.
Do I think my M would be "ok" right now if I didn't know? Maybe but my W told me for a reason. Guilt, honesty, wake up call, who knows, but I did not have a choice.
For the record, I did tell her awhile ago that I decided I would rather that she never told me. I think I was wrong about that.

GH

[PArob]

Don't mind at all!

Interesting point. Yes, I guess I'd rather know than not know that something is going on. I mean, it didn't take a great leap for me to figure it out in the first place, but at least I can recognize the changes in her for what they are. They DID tell us for a reason...I mean I didn't beat it out of her, she did come forward with it.

As for details, I waver, I guess in many respects I'm better just not knowing because I don't dwell on it as much. In the past few weeks, I found out more than I really wanted to I suppose and it deeply affected me. Nothing major, just more lies, deceit and betrayal than I care to know about. It really set me off on a tangent, so much so, that I question whether I will have the strength to carry this through. I question whether she or I will have the tenacity to set things straight in this R and it scares me. This is one of the biggest reasons why I'm glad that my W is getting away this weekend, because I need time to reflect.

In any event, I do try to foucs on the positives, my W still says, acts and does a lot of things that she used to before. She still says ILY, she still views our marriage as having a lot of good, we still ML (just not as often), and she still lives with me. She has even ackowledged that she needs to be a better, stronger person. Sadly, its that emotional connection that is truly missing.

I'm at a strange place right now because I feel almost ambivalent about how things will work out. I'm confused because I can't rectify that things my W says with the things that she does. I've lost my identity in the context of this R and I wonder if I will ever be able to regain it by remaining in this sitch. There's so much doubt, lost of trust, etc., that I don't know if I can try to work on me without the other half of me worrying about losing her through the process.

[Tim297181]

Good question to know or not know? That is the question?

I have experienced both. I thought my W may of had an affair awhile ago and she denied it. I believed her but she started to distance herself, and put more walls up. At that time I thought it was her just going through a phase and I could not pin point her change on one thing. It drove me crazy the way she was acting, but now I know it was because of the affair.

Now I know everything about the OM and the affair. My W told me everything about the OM and what transpired between them, and on top of that my snooping has filled in a lot of the pieces. Now I "think" I know a lot, but it still drives me crazy. Now I know way too much and I am trying to figure out why she is still with the OM. Logic does not apply and it hurts my brain thinking about it!

So what is my conclusion........I would want to know she had an affair and there is another man so I could react accordingly and not guess. Anymore details than that just confuses the underlying issues and makes you second guess everything. The key is dealing with the basics, the affair, and the OM and that is it. Keep it simple in a diffcult situation. Deal with our own well being and emmotions and move on with our lives. Obviously all of us here want to move on with our W, but they will have to join us when they are ready!

[RBinBR]

One of the thins that just boggles my mind is that my W continually expresses her love for me, ackowledges that there is a lot of good in this M, and knows that she doesn't want to be without me. Yet, despite all these positive feelings about our R, she still refuses, or can't, shake her addiction to the OM. It seems to me that in reading the posts here, that this is somewhat of a unique sitch.

I wish your sitch were unique. My WAW also tells me that she loves me. She walked Jan 8 to be with OM. Last Friday, she climbed into bed with me and created some of the best sex of our marriage, only a few hours before helping OM move to our city and into her apartment.

[WantToSaveIt]

I know how you feel, rob. I know how discouraging and heartbreaking the the "lies, deceit and betrayal" can be. Sometimes I wonder what's the worse: the jealousy I feel because of OM, or that my W is capable of the lies, deceit and betrayal in the first place. Sometimes I wonder if I really want to spend the rest of my life with someone who is capable of lies, deceit and betrayal, when I thought I married someone I could trust "til' death do us part".

And am I snooping to try find out if the "lies, deceit and betrayal" are just part of a passing thing, that's not really her, but a symptom of "being abducted by aliens", or is it a deeper problem that indicates that she could really end up screwing me big-time either in the near future or after the kids are grown, leaving me alone when I'm over 50. And do I snoop to find out if I need to protect myself?

But like grasshopper said, what if I did find out that it was still going on? Would that really be the last straw and I would make an appointment with a D lawyer ASAP? Grasshopper is right, I would have done that already if I was going to do it.

Food for thought:

I somehow subscribed to some marriage mailing list that is trying to sell me expensive marriage counseling tapes or something, but I get daily updates with tips that try to reel you in for the sale. But one the other day I read and thought was insightful and am still chewing on it:

He basically said, whatever your situation, give it a year. Don't rush out or even start thinking divorce. Give it a year and honestly work on it and yourself. Not so much to save your marriage (although that would be great, and that is the primary goal), but rather to prepare yourself for your next relationshiop. Hopefully that "next" relationship will be a new relationship with your current spouse, but if it doesn't work, you will have given yourself a year's worth of training for the next relationshiop, even if it is someone else. Without that training, you will be going into another relationship as the same person you were when you jumped the gun and called it quits.

[lmdi99]

I'm gonna jump in here, guys, with a female perspective...hope thats okay. I have suspected that my H is having an A for a long time now. There have been a lot of things that have happened to point to an A. However, every time i ask my H about it, he denies it. Thus, i've stopped asking. I have thought about this and there is a part of me - a big part, i think - that wishes i did know for sure, and that my H knew that i knew. I feel like it would just put everything out on the table. My sitch is a little different in that my H and I have been separated for over a year, and the legal stuff has been started. But, i do wish that i knew for sure...at least then he could stop lying to me, which i think is the worst part. My H told me that i needed to make the decision on my own as to whether or not i should hang on. Well, thats fine, but i do think that i need to know all the variables in order to make an informed decision.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents...thanks for letting me vent it.

[PArob]

Okay, not much really new to post. It looks like we are expecting quite a bit of snow up our way on Saturday (for those of you that are fortunate enough not to know what snow is *cough* GH *cough* I envy you).

W is going away for the weekend to collect her thoughts and such. I'm pretty ambivalent about this...in one sense, I think she is completely confused about everything...she's afraid of losing me and her life, but doesn't quite know how to handle her feelings for OM. On the other hand, I hope she can use the time to think about life in general. I doubt two days away is going to accomplish anything at all, but at the very least it does give her a break.

I dunno either...I do know that I don't think I can continue living in this triangle much more. In any event, I can see changes on the horizon, whether for the good or bad. At the very least, I think on a personal level, I am in a much better place and have really been taking a hard look at myself. Things in this R have to change, no matter what. I really believe that I have to regain my identity and start with GAL. The past few months I've been ruled by her actions, her emotions, etc. and quite honestly, that's not DBing. I believe I was sucked in by her insistence that she wanted this to work and I threw those DB principles out the window, although I have noticed that I have been reacting less than I usually would under these conditions.

I'm not sure what changes are in store...I don't really believe a separation is in order, nor a D at this time, but something has to change. There needs to be a shift in the balance here so that I can be at peace with myself.

Last night was pretty good, I came home emotionally neutral and lasted that way throughout the night. I wasn't cold or aloof, but tried to be as supportive and friendly as I could. Funny, she was walking back into the house from the garage when she stopped and kissed me and said "ILY", but proceeded to say that I didn't lover her anymore?!? Okay, it was a signal for reassurance, I recognize that and I gave it to her. I said of course ILY very much. Interesting, indeed. This whole thing is just killing her and I wish to goodness that I could wave a magic wand to fix it for her...but I can't make things better for her, only she can.

There are days like that when she is so very sweet and reflective, when she realizes that this whole sitch is wrong and my heart just aches for her...but there's those other days when she acts so cold and distant. *SIGH* the life of a LBS.

In any event, we'll see what the weekend brings. I'll keep up with everyone's post and let you know what goes on from here.