W31, OM20

[RBinBR]

Well, lunch was good. W started the conversation by telling me that she had another fight with OM and temporarily threw him out again. This is now the second time that she has thrown him out of her apartment in the last month.

Personally, I really wonder how long she can go on like this. She's clearly unhappy with him in some substantial ways.

I actually told her that she shouldn't break up with him after an argument like this, because he'll always wonder what if he had said this or that in the argument. She should break up with him when they aren't angry with each other, and let him know that she's doing it because she wants to remove sin from her life and restore her relationship with God. Leaving the affair for the right reasons might inspire him toward a closer relationship with God as well. She agreed with me and thanked me for sharing that.

We had a good discussion about her spiritual state. She open with me on that topic now, because she knows that I'm not going to try to use the Bible to beat her over the head -- I'm honestly trying to help her.

[RBinBR]

Well, D has left on a 5-day trip with my in-laws, so I will be home alone for a while. I wonder if I will see W without having D around as an "excuse" to stop by. OM is extremely jealous of the time she spends with me -- so she'll have to do it secretly if she does.

Speaking of which, I'm now very worried about something that W said yesterday. Apparently, their big fight (which resulted in her temporarily kicking him out) erupted because he is demanding to spend time with our D, whom he still hasn't met.

W has been in agreement with me that D shouldn't see OM for several reasons, not the least of which is that she may end the A soon (her own words and thought). She also knows that D is having a hard enough time right now without mommy being at home and doesn't need the extra emotional pain of comprehending that her mommy doesn't love her daddy right now. She's only 4 years old, after all.

My concern is that W has done many things recently to placate OM. She first insisted to him that his living with her could only be temporary, and now it's turned out out to be permanent. She initially refused to help him finance a car, and now she's done it. She refused to pay his bills, and now she's done it.

So now, she's refused to let him see D -- will she placate him again?

I understand what OM is doing. He senses that W is torn. As she told me herself yesterday, "When I'm with you, I want to end the A and come back, but when I'm with him, I don't want to ever leave him." OM knows that the time she spends with me and D together is drawing her back toward me and he is making a play to have D over there so that they can start being a "family." That way, W won't need to be around me and OM won't have to be jealous.

I just don't know what to do if she decides that she wants D over there. I had previously resisted filing for a legal separation and getting a legal custody agreement because we were able to work things out and I trusted her not to expose D to OM.

If she tells me that she wants D over there, do I file? I desperately don't want D exposed to him. He smokes (though not in their aparment), he's a thief, he was unconcerned about getting W pregnant, he drives too fast (has a radar detector), he's financially irresponsible and in the process of filing for bankruptcy, and worst of all -- I know that he has a temper.

The problem is that my lawyer previously told me that I was unlikely to truly be able to keep D away from OM. Even if the custody arrangement were to state that she couldn't see him for six months, there would be no way to really enforce that.

But I would feel compelled to try rather than expose my D to a situation that I feel could be dangerous to her. Also, if I were serious about filing for custody, it might cause W to back off, because she's back in financial difficulty and doesn't want to spend big bucks on lawyers.

I really hope that I'm worried for nothing, but I'm just trying to make plans for the possibility.

I also feel that, if it comes to this, I will have to go to the "after the last resort" technique and go dark and stay dark until it's all over. That's scary. I went dark for three weeks before, but that was mainly for myself, and my W knew that.

I could really use some advice now.

[NotMarried]

Hi RB,

Here's something Oldtimer posted to me in my last thread when I faced having my kids go with SO for the 1st time. I found this interesting, and maybe you can use it with your W:

As for OW being so keen on meeting the kids and introducing them around (GAG), it may very well backfire on her. Anyone I've known that has really been serious about a LTR with someone with kids has been VERY worried about taking it slow, being sure about the R, etc... So, meeting the kids may have been an excuse for her to keep from getting more serious (probably unconsiously). And, if so, as the roadblocks disappear to them being together in "the perfect relationship" they would only have if only the world didn't conspire against them, the more they will have to deal with their R, rather than an overromanticized "us against the world" R, if that makes any sense.

The part that I'm trying to point out is the part about the OP taking it slow with meeting the kids. Like, in other words, if they really loved our P's, they would take into account the effect of the new R on the children. Or, another way to put it - they are only considering themselves when not taking the well-being of the children into account about all this.

Hope this helps...or makes sense. I feel for you, I'm sorry I don't have anything ebtter to help you thru this.
{{{{RB}}}}

[RBinBR]

Thanks, NM. Initially, OM wanted to give D some time and space before any introduction. As a matter of fact, I still have his email from January 20, where he states about D "I would not try and jump into her life in the middle of a situation that is already going to be hard enough. She needs to be settled before any of that happens."

The fact that he's suddenly changed his mind and is willing to start big fights about it indicates to me that he may be getting desperate. So, yes, this is good news in a way.

I just don't know what to do if W agrees to do it. Maybe I should let OM see her. I think it's a little different for you, though, NM, because, nationwide, "mommy's boyfriend" is responsible for most of the child abuse that occurs. What if I just let D go over there and OM abuses her? How could I forgive myself?

[RBinBR]

Well, W just stopped by briefly to use the internet (apparently, her own isn't working), and she was genuinely rude to me. That hasn't happened since I went dark on her February 10. I didn't argue with her or anything -- I think OM was waiting on her and she was just in a big hurry.

Still, since this is the first time I have seen her in three days and this is the way she acts, it's clear that she isn't missing me too much right now. I'm not going to make any rash decisions, but I'm really thinking about the "After the Last Resort Technique."

We'll see what happens over the next few days. If we really are moving backwards, then I think I'm ready to do it. No contact until the A is over.

I'm in a better position than most to do this technique, anyway, since my W can't file for D.

[lpdcop]

RB, I am trying the last resort technique on my W. I can't tell if it is working or not. I have told her that I'm moving to a new place in town and later this year, moving to NC at my old department. She kept asking why I would do that. I told her that I wanted to be on my own (not living with family) and then moving to NC because I liked the department up there better. She didn't have much to say about that. Especially when I told her that there was othing keeping me here in FL anymore. I did, however, invite her to move with me. No pressure. JUst if she wants to come, she's welcome. She said "I don't know."

I know it surprised her. I'm still being nice too. Maybe, you should go dark, and when your W calls, sound happy. Sound like you're having fun.

One thing that bothers me about that whole thing is this: if they hear you being happy, could it not backfire on you? Could theynot take that as validation that you are better off without them and feel justified in their A's?

Good luck with your sitch man. Hell, good luck to all of you and all of us. We need it.

[RBinBR]

Thanks for the kind words, lpd. My W actually just called me out of the blue to apologize for being rude. She said that she'd really been having a bad day and she was stressed.

Needless to say, I'll take that as a good sign. I really need to wait a little while before going dark for good.

Something that will change the dynamic is W's sister moving back from New York on Easter Day. The two of them have been extremely close, but they've barely spoken since W left Jan 8. There have been times when W would listen to her sister when she wouldn't listen to anyone else, so having her back here will definitely help out. It will also be great because my D and her aunt absolutely love each other.

[RBinBR]

Well, I sent my W a card today (to her work, so I know that she'll get it instead of OM). Pursuing? Maybe, but it wasn't a "love" card -- it said "I Believe In You" at the top and the printed message was about how she has the strength and courage to get through this.

On the inside, I put a couple of encouraging Bible verses and a short note letting her know that I'm looking forward to the day when she, D, and I can be a family again. Anyway, I think she will appreciate it, as it is a very supportive, non-pressuring card. We'll see.

On a completely different topic, I've decided to take my 4-year old to Disneyworld the last week of April. It will be a daddy-daughter trip and we are going to have a blast! D has been wanting to go back since her last trip just before she turned 3, and I'm a big Disney fan as well.

Since W left in January, I've really been inadequate as a father, in large part because I felt emotionally drained for so long. I've really felt convicted about that in this last week, and this is something that will be a great chance for us to connect in the way that only Disney can.

It will be interesting to see how W reacts to this. We have actually talked about taking this trip if/when she ends her A, and W will definitely want to go on this trip, but I see no reason to put life on hold and wait indefinitely for her to do something that she may never do. If she doesn't break it off with the OM before the trip so that she can go (and I think this might truly motivate her), then she'll feel horribly left out and miss being part of our family. Our previous Disney trips have been wonderful family times together.

[NotMarried]

I put a couple of encouraging Bible verses and a short note letting her know that I'm looking forward to the day when she, D, and I can be a family again. Anyway, I think she will appreciate it, as it is a very supportive, non-pressuring card. We'll see.

RB, that IS a pressure filled note, wouldn't you think? Maybe the card wasn't, but the note was. I think they call it "passive pursuit" here on the board.

As far as your Disney trip - please don't use it as an attempt to get something from your W, or an ultimatum or whatever. That's kind of what it sounds like. If you want to go for you and D, then do it for THAT reason and no other. My suggestion is that you book the trip, according to your schedule, then tell W the dates. Not in an "asking" way; rather in a way that shows you're going with her or without her, and for D's enjoyment. Not based on whether W is still involved in A or not.

I think you're doing well overall!

[RBinBR]

RB, that IS a pressure filled note, wouldn't you think? Maybe the card wasn't, but the note was. I think they call it "passive pursuit" here on the board.

Maybe a little ... but it was really more reassuring. She's let me know that she's afraid that I'm going to divorce her and marry someone else (yeah, I know), and it was in there to let her know that I'm still there for her.

Maybe I should just let her worry, but I really think that she's got enough pressure right now without being afraid of losing me. If I don't get some results in the next month and a half, then I'll let her worry. She's having such fights with OM, though, that I'm guessing that they won't last long and it will be better for me to be supportive of her.

Anyway, I promise that the Disney trip was purely motivated by a desire to have a special time with my daughter. She deserves it so much, and I really haven't been there for her emotionally the last 3 months (the last 5 months, really). I had been putting the trip off because I was waiting on W, and I just decided that I wasn't going to leave my life on hold anymore.

I've really been extremely excited the last two days about going. It's the best GAL thing that I've done, bar none.

The fact that my W will want to go and will feel horribly left out is purely a side benefit. Back in January, she had even asked me at one point if the three of us could maybe still go on a trip to Disney together after we got divorced!

My suggestion is that you book the trip, according to your schedule, then tell W the dates. Not in an "asking" way; rather in a way that shows you're going with her or without her, and for D's enjoyment. Not based on whether W is still involved in A or not.

That's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm not inviting W at all. If she asks to come, I'm going to tell her that it would be cruel to D to make her think that we're getting back together and that isn't happening at this point.

BTW, thanks for writing, NM. I don't know if my thread gets so little attention because people think I'm an insufferable know-it-all, or if they (incorrectly) think that I've got everything together and don't need any help.