W31, OM20

[FarSouth]

Yeah! Sounds like you have had some success! Keep up the good work!

Remember to continue to have lasting positive behaviours on your part. Remember NOT to crowd her, talk about OM, the relationship... Just focus on enjoying time together. Do your part to make the time enjoyable and let go of control of W. She is responsible for herself and you are responsible for you.

Keep going with the DB techniques and the last resort technique.

It seems as if you are working on things that work and avoiding the nagging, complaining, crowding, whining and pleading that do not work.

Go out and have some fun with some friends... Maybe someone who also has D?

Good luck!

[RBinBR]

Well, surprise, surprise. W called me at 12:30 am and asked me to come back and bring some cough medicine for D. She actually had some medicine that should have worked, so I think that she really just wanted me to come back over, now that she was done talking to OM for the night.

So I did stay, and we watched part of a movie together and then went to bed. It was very nice, lots of snuggling and holding, but no ML and no kissing. It is clear to me that she wants badly to kiss and ML, but won't -- either out of a warped sense of loyalty to OM or because she is afraid of getting my hopes up -- I'm not sure which (or maybe both). At one point, she did kiss me on the lips and kind of caught herself and stopped.

We dropped D off this morning and then got breakfast together and then did some financial stuff.

It was an experience that was both highly enjoyable and extremely frustrating. It was enjoyable to spend time with her and have her clearly enjoy cuddling and snuggling with me. Having her fall asleep using my shoulder as a pillow ... I'd forgotten how great that felt. She actually said, "I miss having you take care of me."

On the other hand, seeing her panties and OM's boxer shorts in their laundry hamper together is way beyond difficult. Seeing his love notes to her tenderly placed in her bookcase was also almost impossible -- it took every inch of discipline I had not to tear them up and throw them away when she wasn't looking. I wouldn't recommend that anyone in my sitch go to a "love nest" like this unless they have a very strong stomach and are very skilled at controlling their emotions -- I know that I couldn't have gone there three weeks ago without losing it. Fortunately, all I ever did was grit my teeth a couple of times.

Remember NOT to crowd her, talk about OM, the relationship...

Well, she keeps bringing OM and the R up, so we keep talking about them. OM still thinks that the two of them are going to eventually get married. She is disillusioned with him but still loves him and doesn't think she can leave him.

Almost everything that she tells me about him is negative, though. Maybe that's just because she knows that I don't want to hear about how great he is, but I really have a hard time understaning how she can put up with him at all.

Overall, though, her attitude was not as good as last week, when she was speaking of "when" the A was over. Today, she was back talking about it "going either way." I'm not disappointed, though, because I know how this process works.

In the 15 hours we spent together, I only slipped up on a couple of things.

I think I tried too hard to up the passion level a couple of times. Although I know that she wants it, she's determined not to and I should really quit trying until I get some kind of sign that this is changing. I want her to be comfortable around me -- which she is.

One verbal error happened when she mentioned how much OM wants to meet our D, and how much he loves children. I know that I should have let it go because she has agreed that OM shouldn't see D, but I said that he couldn't really love kids because he had no problem breaking up D's family and he also had no problem creating a ba$tard child (go back a page if you need that context). All that did was make her defend OM -- not something I wanted her to do. I then calmly said I didn't want to argue, but I wasn't going to accept something I didn't believe to be true. We then dropped the matter.

I also should have kept my mouth shut and just smiled when she said that she feels like she has messed up her marriage and she owes it to OM and to herself to give their R a real chance before abandoning it and hurting him. I shouldn't have said it, but I asked why she didn't care about hurting D, who has cried so much missing her. She asked me if I wanted her to feel guilty, and I told her no, I wouldn't want her to come back out of guilt -- I didn't want her to feel guilty at all, not about D and not about hurting OM if she decided to dump him.

Although those were slip-ups, I was not angry or upset in the slightest when I said them, so I'm not going to beat myself up too badly when the visit was fantastic overall.

I suggested that W and D spend a mommy-daughter night together tonight and she asked with concern, "You don't want to come over?" I replied that of course I want to spend time with her, but I think she and D really need some time alone to connect, and she agreed.

[RBinBR]

Wow! Last night was a big breakthrough.

OM came back a day early. He was in Arkansas trying to sell a 4-wheeler to get some money, but he couldn't sell it because it has a lien on it. He is planning to declare bankruptcy and wants W to finance a car for him because he'll lose his car in the bankruptcy filing! And he got angry with her when she refused!

That was just about the last straw for W. She has supported him, paid about $500 of his bills, and he has now been in Baton Rouge for 6 weeks and still doesn't have a job (not to mention that he could have gotten a job before he moved down here).

Not to mention that it's Friday and she hasn't had any sales this week (she works on straight commission), so she won't get a paycheck next week if she doesn't sell something today.

Also, I think the night D and I spent with her Wednesday night was huge. She was looking forward to a mommy-daughter night last night and then she couldn't because he came home early. I think she also realized that sleeping with me and being with me wasn't so bad.

I went over to her apartment to help her pack up D's stuff (since D would not be staying the night), and suggested we simply ride back to the house together, and she told me no, since OM might be home when she got back. I said incredulously, "He would have a problem with you riding in the car with me?" and she said yes, a big problem, because he's extremely jealous. She also wanted me to take back a "marriage weekend" brochure that I had left with her and asked her to consider. I said that was unfortunate, because he had always said that he only wanted her to be happy. She angrily replied, "No, he only wants for him to be happy!"

That evening, after D went to bed, she just broke down and started crying, telling me again how sorry she was for everything she had done, how she couldn't understand how I could give her so many chances, how she really wanted to end it but didn't know how, etc. I told her about a friend of ours from church who I recently learned had an affair, and asked W if she wanted to that friend about how she had left her other man, and she said yes. Through her tears, she said that she is truly depressed and miserable.

Anyway, I now feel that the A is near its end. We'll see what happens in the next few days.

[NotMarried]

RB, I think you're doing great. You're wise in giving her space & time to figure things out on her own and reach her own conclusions.

OMG! Going to her place must have taken great stamina & strength and you handled it very well. Additionally, backing off and letting her have D for the night (even if it didn't materialize) was a biggie. It's good to see that you didn't use the time for "yourself" and gave it to your D to spend with her mommy.

Your W is at a very confusing time right now. It's best to stand off to the side and simply be her friend. A great, supportive friend. She may waiver back & forth about OP. She will have to end that of her own free will & accord; same as her decision to work on your M. You can't make these decisions for her; or prompt her (not that I think you are). Don't force counseling or talk of getting back together. If she wants to talk about it, that's different.

Keep doing the DB principles. High hopes, low expectations. Try to keep yourself busy so your mind isn't wandering to what's going on with W! Hugs to you! {{{RB}}}

[RBinBR]

Thanks so much, NM. Yes, she didn't call the friend today, and she has now left on yet another weekend trip with OM, so she won't be seeing D on Sunday again. Arrrgh!

In a way, this is much more frustrating now, because yesterday I could feel how close she was, right on the edge of ending the A. I know, though, that I have to be patient and not let this get to me.

I definitely think I need to back off this week and make myself less available to her.

[RBinBR]

High hopes, low expectations.

I know, I know ... very hard for me this weekend, though. I've actually been depressed for the last day or so -- stupid, really, when I consider the progress my W has made. She was so close on Thursday, though, to ending the A, that I can't help feeling like someone who just had a delicious pie waved in front of my nose, but who isn't allowed to eat a piece.

backing off and letting her have D for the night (even if it didn't materialize) was a biggie. It's good to see that you didn't use the time for "yourself" and gave it to your D to spend with her mommy.

Yep. I was definitely "pursuing" a little and felt the need to back off. My problem, though, is that one of the "reasons" for the A was that I wasn't romantic or passionate enough. I don't know how to show her that the "new me" can be those things without pursuing and possibly pushing her away. Any ideas, anyone?

[InLikeFlynn]

Maybe its time to push her off the fence...she seems to be stuck up there. Push forward with the divorce and make her really take a long look at the OB(boy) and decide once and for all who she wants. You stated earlier she has started to she him negatively and maybe was close to jumping ship then back she goes. Right now your the safety net making this decision easier on her, for she can take her time. Just my opinion.

[RBinBR]

It's crossed my mind, Flynn, but she's continuing to move my way lately, and that would be a big risk. She's waffling back and forth right now, but the movement over the last three weeks has been substantially in my direction.

You are right that she can take her time, but if she's depressed as she said Thursday (and her tears would tend to back that up), then she's got plenty of pressure already and it's not exactly easy on her right now.

If we're stuck in this position in another month, then I'll try another 180 to shake her up some. I'm not going to file for D, though, because that's not what I want, and I don't think anyone should file until they're ready to go through with it.

Thanks for writing, though. I appreciate it.

[lpdcop]

RB, I have read your thread, like you suggested. You seem to be doing the right things. I admire your patience. I admire your strength and resolve. You definitely have the right idea.

I have gone dark on my W. Though this was her suggestion. I haven't called, or written, or anything. I still haven't heard from her, but it has been only since Tuesday since we last spoke too.

I am working on the whole better myself thing. I took a vacation, I go out with friends, I do things that make me happy. Unfortunately, I don't hear from her for her to see the changes, and she lives 40 minutes away.

My wife SAYS she feels bad for the affair (much like yours), but only says how great and supportive the OM is. He might actually be a great guy. I doubt it though. He left his fiance to persue a married woman. I don't sense a great deal of morals in the dude.

You, on the other hand, seem like a great guy with a super head on your shoulders. Keep up the good work, and keep the faith. God is definitely working with you on this one.

[RBinBR]

The thing to keep in mind, LPD, is that all OP's have a clear character flaw. The fact that a spouse and OP cheated to be together means that neither of them will really be able to trust each other. Jesus contrasted the man who build his house upon a rock to one who built his house on sand. Any A is built on sand and that's why they almost never last.

Your W will see the OM's flaws in time -- the question we can't know is how long it will take. Right now, the A is still new and exciting to her. If my W's OM was not such a 20-year-old bum/child, my W might be in the same position as yours, and the A would almost certainly last a lot longer than otherwise.

For me, going dark was the best thing because it gave me the opportunity to detach and heal. Not having to worry about what I was going to say to her the next day, etc. just took a load off my back, and yes, this is the perfect time to GAL. Do it for yourself, not for your W. Don't worry about her finding out or not.

Thanks for the encouragement, LPD. Some days, like yesterday, are really hard; some days, like today, are just fine.