Tis ok me lady. I am just really insecure these days about exactly that issue and I suppose you just caught me at the right (wrong) moment.
As for me offering back rubs, etc, yes, I do all the time. She asks me to do that a lot too. Really, probably unbeknownst to her, back rubs are an issue with me. A lot of the time she would ask me to do that when I really just wanted to hug or kiss her, in a non-sexual context. It seemed all she ever wanted was back rubs and yet every once in awhile she would complain that I never hugged her, etc. WTF? I would LOVE to do that but every time I am with her she wants rubs? Even to the point where I would stop and just hold her and she would make some comment about me being tired or something else to the effect of "so I get no more back rub?" Anyway, that was WAY to much of a post on such a specific thing.
The bottom line is that my W has been conditioned for YEARS to think that any physical contact initiated by me is an attempt to get sex. I know that. She has told me that for a LONG time but I didn't listen. I think it will take a long time to reverse that feeling if ever.
Ok, I apologize up front for this. I am really confused right now in general but with V day only a couple days away, I am beyond confused. Things are obviously going better between my W and I right now. She is NOT going out tonight for the first time in almost a month (Sunday is date night). She has been much closer to me lately. So my plan to get her nothing for V day other than a card seems inappropriate. So what do I do? I don't think anything too romantic would be right but I don't know. I was thinking of doing something more generic and having a romantic backup just in case. I don't know if she plans on getting/doing anything for me or not. Hell, she may have a date planned. What do I do?
I have the same question Grasshopper! I wish I knew what was in her head right now. If I get her something(even just a card) will it provoke her...if I don't get something will it provoke her.
Frickin' games! Damned if you do, damned if you don't! V-Day is a no win situation this year, that's for sure!
JRY
“Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.”
"It does not matter how slowly you go, so long as you do not stop." Confucius (551-479 BC) - Chinese philosopher
GH - Okay, going out on a limb here my friend, but have you considered asking her if she would like to go out for dinner? What has been your history for VDay.
After reading your thread the past couple of weeks, I did some reflection into me and I did take NYS little test. My exH never was big on Vday and after so many years of experience with that, I think personally I've grown to just believe it's another day. I carried that over with Dave and our R. Hmmm...is that what I am really about, couldn't tell you. I'm thinking about that. I know my exH was not the best at "getting it" the big joke here was for a couple of years, all I had wanted was a Kitchen Aid mixer. I know okay, not exactly diamonds, flowers, but it was something I coveted. Instead, exH appeared to go out of his way to get me everything else under the sun appliance way, except for the one thing that I wanted, the KA. I had mentioned it on several occassions and then I finally just gave up...and guess what the guy I was having the EA with got me for my bday....you guessed it, the KA!! Apparently, he heard me and I didn't even know it. And you know what 6yrs later it is still highly coveted, the most used kitchen appliance in my house and brings a smile to my face everytime I use it.
As for a sex life. With exH, it was for lack of a better term, mechanical. LOL. He was not a touchy/feely person. He got that from his family. I am on the other hand quite the opposite. With Dave, we had the touchy/feely and it was always there, even during things like cooking dinner, playing darts, the man could look at me with his eyes, and I could feel/read his love for me. To this day, I still remember his words he once said "There is more to intimacy than just sex you know." He was right. In comparison to exH, we had quite the fulfilling sex life. I think for this very reason. I never felt it was an obligation.
Women tend to expect men to be mind readers and when they don't read our minds, we only end up disappointing ourselves and letting our S down when they have failed. It's something that both sexes need to work on. It goes back to opening up the door of communication between the couple and being accepting and validiating what each other says.
I think with the trip coming up and also because of the fact that she isn't keeping date night, what harm could you do in asking her if she would like to do something. She may be waiting for you to say something, afraid of trying to read into what is going around in your head also.
Anyway, perhaps interesting if we post our scores...here are mine.
Score Love Language 7 Words of Affirmation 9 Quality Time 1 Receiving of Gifts 4 Acts of Service 9 Physical Touch
Apparently gift giving is just not something that is important on my list. But I am a touchy/feely person...imagine that!!
Frickin' games! Damned if you do, damned if you don't! V-Day is a no win situation this year, that's for sure!
I think it really depends on where you are in your sitch. If you have a WAS, they are living on their own or with the op then I would forgo the Vday. Because that would be a form of pursuit and we KNOW as DBers that any form of pursuit only pushes the WAS further away from us. But I think that if your S still lives with you, you are in counseling of some sort or you see something positive from your WAS then I see nothing wrong with actually asking. Something I am learning is to take the temperature every now and then from the other people in our lives. It's hard to read people sometimes and it is very possible the WAS is in limbo just like you. Either way you get a feel for what they are thinking. Its part of communication.
My history with ALL holidays is that I really like to go all out for her. Sometimes she took that badly since we could not really afford to do that. That is an issue this time too since we are going on a trip to Ireland in a couple weeks, she doesn't want to spend any money. I think if I ask her, she will say to do nothing, not just because of the sitch, but because of the cash flow issue. As for dinner, we have no babysitter, never have. I have tried to get one but she refuses. Now and days I think that's a smoke screen but in the past, who knows. I WOULD LOVE to take her out but...
So, you think I should just ask her what is up with V day?
As for the sex thing, it has never really been all that natural for us. It has been good (I think) for both of us but getting started has been an issue.
She doesn't believe in a woman being aggressive when it comes to initiation so she hardly ever did it. I somehow developed some esteem issues along the way and found it hard to initiate so I would resort to the "test run" method of seeing if she was in the mood (i.e. try touching somewhere during back rub, etc) and that was how it usually worked.
I used to do more romantic things, but after being shut down more than a few times, I guess I got tired of the rejection and stopped.
I totally understand how it is probably looked at by her as mechanical but that is NOT what I would like at all. I think now, if we ever got back to that stage, I would be better because I am learning not to take her moods personally and would not feel rejected if I did something romantic and it did not lead to ML.
Well, more than that, I would not EXPECT anything anymore and that is HUGE for me.
I would do most anything just to kiss my W and have it lead to nowhere right now, something I don't think she believes about me. In due time I hope to change that impression.
Anyway, sorry for the personal stuff but I am just starting to feel comfortable exploring the issues in the bedroom now that my heart is a little better.
Short Update:
W is at the gym and I had to call her about a kid issue. She used that laughing "I can't talk" voice she ALWAYS uses when she is with someone. She almost never uses that voice with me, but has started much more lately. Anyway, as usual, it looks like going to the gym=OM. I do know she actually is at the gym and I suppose that is better than the alternatives.
Of all the things I suspect I may be wrong about, this is not one. No worries...I can't change that stuff, that's up to her. I sure as hell would like to ask her WTH is going on though.
I'm very anti V-day but if it's something you love to celebrate you could certainly cook dinner for her instead of going out. Hey and since she loves back massages you might want to throw in one of those after dinner. Or maybe give her a flower with a back massage coupon attached. I know you get tired of giving them but hey, you are getting some physical touch out of the deal too.
Oh, I suppose my earlier post made it seem like I don't like to give the rubs. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I love to do it but I just want to do other things too and I would like to be able to hug my wife without it meaning I don't want to rub her back. I really like the dinner idea. I may do that.
So, you think I should just ask her what is up with V day?
Personally I wouldn't word it exactly like that...okay look at your sitch...from what I remember from your posts and correct me where i am wrong...but you've put the R on the back burner and the kids came first. For whatever reason, W felt obligated to being supermom instead of superwife. You initially did things together as a couple but through the years life and responsibiliities got in the way.
I wouldn't go spluring on a spree at VS right now...but you gotta eat, right? Okay, so if she feels funny about getting a babysitter perhaps order dinner in, maybe even for the whole family if that would make her feel more at ease. But yes, I would ask her. Something is up with her GH, you are both going away together on a trip. She is committing to that. Check the temperature with her.
