I couldn't resist this one. While we were at the beach W asked me to take some pictures of her, to replace the one on her website I did and she sent me 3 to look at and help her decide.
She Said: thanks for taking all those shots of me. Here are the 3 favorites I have, which one do you think looks the best for the website? Plus this one of you and D10 is sweet. I had fun camping I hope you recover from being tired. Thank you for your inpute I do appreciate it,
Lorri
Now, why didn't she send these to OM? Or maybe she did but doesn't trust his opinion? weird. So I looked at the pictures. They came out really well, she looks very pretty in all 3...and I am a good photographer.
So, I reply like this: ------------ I think the one of D10 and I is sweet too! Thanks for taking it.
When I looked at the photos, I paused to feel the message each one was sending me. Here are my impressions as they came to me.
When I look at the photo on the rocks, I see you as a Goddess of the Earth and I feel you are grounded and radiant. You are someone I would trust to work with my body and my energy. Warm, simple, loving.
Both of the other photos show how beautiful you are as a woman, and the clear white light energy that you possess as a healer and source of limitless unconditional love. The one with your hair on the side is very warm and I feel like you are simply joy and happiness. The other one feels less so, somewhat plain and simple.
I think that for the website, you may want visitors to have the feeling that you are a Goddess of the Earth, so I would suggest the Photo on the Rocks. If you want to use a headshot, then the photo with your hair on the side is the one I prefer the most.
Your wife is wacked. I mean your wife is just like mine. Wacked.
She is not having a normal affair just like mine is not have a normal break up or what ever.
you would do much better if you got;
I dont love i love him i am moving out in 6 months to be with him I want to spend the rest of my life with him Your the father of my children and I love you for that Can we be friends
BOOOOOM!!!
You know wher you stand.
Just like my wife she calls me about stupid [censored]. I apoligized for something I did at the accountants last night at 12AM. An apology was needed I really felt at that very moment. I was not DBing.
Yesterday she tells me I got your message [I did not ask, you know you cant ] after I tell her I am going to respond to the paper work so she does not have to respond anymore to her attorney. You see I if respond it dies. But how does my wife get me to respond so it will go away without letting me know the fear of divorce is still out there. You see she has the balancing act to do. I know now she holds the D over my head to control me. Now I could be wrong but I dont think so. Slow and steady will tell all.
Opinion Frank?
Frank, I am sure others here agree. Wacked. I dont know if you could say this too me. But I am dead serious when I say this. You need to start laughing more about this. This is a joke. I keep saying this but I am sorry. We are all adults her. With kids and finances and lifes and loves. What the FU*K is going on. Laugh.
First off, she replied via e-mail. Told me she liked the photo I suggested and said:
"Thank you for really looking at the photos, your input means a lot to me."
What did I expect, huh? Tears and professions of love? Her original E-Mail request last nite was timid, probably because she was feeling unworthy since I went 'gray' last nite after our argument about her attitude re: OM and 'getting any'. That's the thing that's weird. If she was feeling like I didn't like her or was angry why did she ask ME about the photos. I had left the house BEFORE she e-mailed them to me, and she knew I was in a bad mood. Why not just e-mail OM, her brilliant Girlfriend or others. Why ME?
I don't recall if I mentioned but last nite after our exchange about 'what she is doing' After I left the house to go for a drive I withdrew into my room to detach. This morning I went downstairs and got coffee, said very little and made very little eye contact. So, I think she is feeling uncomfortable this morning. I REALLY need to detach. It's killing me to stay connected.
She came into my room to talk about D10 and thanked me again for the photo help, said thanks for looking at them with 'my whole being' and she appreciated the comments (she was smiling a little but mostly being neutral).
I smiled and told her I always look at her with my whole being.
She thanked me again, said she really appreciated it. Then she left. I felt she seemed uncomfortable being there, and that I had said the things I said in the e-mail, even though she probably thought I was angry with her when I wrote it. She didn't want to react or know HOW to react.
I didn't fish for any feelings, just let her go, felt bad, and went on. I still feel hurt but that's the way it is.
My first (negative) reaction is that she's annoyed and confused that I said what I said even after the 'fight' we had about her actions with OM and how much she blatantly hurts me last nite. I mean, she has to be really confused that I would tell her how much she was hurting me, withdraw and avoid her and THEN say such wonderful things to her in the e-mail.
But I kept thinking that in 3 sentences I said more with my OWN words about her spirit and her true beauty than OM has ever said in all his e-mails, with all his 'cut and pasted' poetry from websites and I would guess in his phone calls or IM's. And I asked for nothing in return.
It seems, that you and your wife, on some level, took another step forward during your camping trip. Maybe not to the level you hoped, but still, the fact that you two were able to spend a fairly pleseant day together camping, speaks volumes. The hope is still there...
If anything, your wife just sounds confused right now, and its making her uncomfortable.
And, in true WAW fashion, it just appears, that after a period of "closeness" she is now withdrawing. It's too be expected. Does it suck? Yes. But it's normal.
She'll come around again when she's ready....
PetiteF
PetiteFlower
Quote: Follow Your Bliss
~Joseph Campbell
Just got back from a massage from W's friend who was going to be her partner in the Lomi Massage biz till OM showed up. I see her every monday, we talk for about an hour about my sitch, and then I get a massage which helps me get set for the week. She hasn't talked to W in weeks. I think W avoids her because she doesn't really want to hear what she has to say because she was very clear she thinks OM is bad news and W is wrong to pursue him.
Anyway, told her about the 'you hurt me' comment I made and the loving comments I sent her in the 'photos' e-mail a couple hours later. She said "That was a beautiful thing you did, even though she had hurt you and you told her, you still found it in your heart to show her unconditional love." Her opinion is that W could not HELP but notice, and had to feel even more guilty for hurting me and confused about who the heck is this Frank I see?
I was talking to her about some of the things W had done in the past weeks that weren't hurting me. Things I described as 'playful'. For example, W jokingly, and for no apparent reason, threw her sweatshirt over my head as she was walking by me while I was watching TV one nite. Another nite she was lying back on the couch with her feet on the coffee table and said 'am I in your way?', I said 'no, I can walk around' and she said 'I can move' I said 'If I need to I can always step over you' and I did step over her, facing her. She then made a 'mock' complaint and I stepped over her again and SAT on her lap (she is lying down) and she reaches up and tickles me.
I was kind of surprised so I stood up and got off her and laughed. I think I also have mentioned that she will jokingly punch me in the arm when she doesn't like something I say. There are other little things that happen SOMETIMES.
So, I tell the 'friend' that I am going back to withdrawal mode because I'm hurt and I need to detach, which is not happening when I see her all the time. 'friend' says that I should not do that, and that I should be taking advantage of the 'playful' moments when they happen and take them a little farther and see what she does. She says if you are playful with a woman, they will feel good to be around you and they just like that in a man. She also pointed out that in our old relationship that was really missing the past few years. Another change for W to see.
She suggested I make sure I do have the same amount of contact, not less, because she thinks that withdrawing looks like an 'old behavior' where I used to go be by myself all the time. It's a delicate balance figuring out which is best - withdraw / detach -or- contact / playfulness.
Counselor had said let HER come into MY personal space but don't enter HER personal space. Maybe she meant that I could not initiate, but once contact is initiated I can follow through as long as I observe boundaries.
Who else is having these 'playful' experiences? What do you do? What does everyone else think?
One thing that is very difficult for me is not thinking about OM. 'friend' said again that she thinks OM has nothing real in his life, she thinks he has more than one woman he is 'playing with'. She had met him in Hawaii and just doesn't like the feelings she got when she saw him looking around at the other women there. She also pointed out that if W was really 'done' she wouldn't talk to me nicely, but would be coordial and business like. Spitfire also said this to me last nite.
One other thing. Massage friend said she didn't have so many muscles to release today, and that even though I told her about my bad weekend she felt me being stronger than last week. Surprising.
I know it all comes down to one thing: Being able to not let HER feelings and actions influence MY feelings. I know, I know, I know. Lovingly Detach, not avoid. I am trying so hard to do that but I'm also still needy which I have to get over.
Quote: If anything, your wife just sounds confused right now, and its making her uncomfortable.
And, in true WAW fashion, it just appears, that after a period of "closeness" she is now withdrawing. It's too be expected. Does it suck? Yes. But it's normal.
She'll come around again when she's ready....
PetiteF
My massage friend said 'wait for the next moon cycle'. Last time she was thinking OM was gone it was around the full moon. Could be interesting to watch.
Too much of my self esteem was coming from her. I DID get too much of my own 'self worth' from our old relationship.
Frank, I'm not saying anything you don't already know. Just helping to remind... Self-identity needs to come from within. We don't NEED W to make us 'happy'. We become 'happy' [better to say, content with life and ourselves] by virtue of who we ARE as an individual. Its a process of redirecting our source of self-worth and importance to OURSELVES and away from what other/W says/does or doesn't say/do. Recognize the accomplishments and changes you've made in yourself Frank. Take pride in who you've become! I know a lot of people here would agree.
Being able to not let HER feelings and actions influence MY feelings.
Exactly, getting to the point of governing OUR behavior regardless of what W does/doesn't say/do. Feelings are so fickle and its way too easy to make decisions and choices based on them. We are all so easily swayed by how we feel at a given point in time and respond accordingly. A level-head and sound mind offers solid-er/higher ground and helps resist knee-jerk reactions to emotions/feelings. Oh, patience helps too. Patience with yourself, with W and sitch. I know, hard to do all the time. How about most of the time?
Sorry for the sermon. I am so there for you Frank.
Quote: Recognize the accomplishments and changes you've made in yourself Frank. Take pride in who you've become! I know a lot of people here would agree.
Yes, I know I have changed. I made a short list of things I can recognize...
I don't drink any more, since Oct 23 2005 I don't yell at my kids over little things I also don't lose it with W I eat better, healthier food I lost 20+ pounds I am aware of what I say to people I love, and how it affects them I have a real relationship with D15 that is respectful and loving I spend more time with D10, and she knows Dad loves her I am a strong person and I can help others to see how to get through their tough spots I'm kind and compassionate
WHere I am still is just very very anxious and scared and insecure. I KNOW that part of this comes from the fact that 3 months ago my emotions and body was a wreck. 6 years of depression, drinking had taken its toll. Then I was forced to wake up, and work on ALL the issues and at the same time deal with W pursuing OM and kids falling apart and W falling apart and the holidays and .. and.. and...
If it wasn't for people on this board and the few friends I DO have I probably would not still be here. I hate to be a whiner, I really do. I have my good days and my bad days. Today has been both. Good in the morning, bad in the afternoon. No reason other than it's the hopeless feelings that overcome me sometimes.
I know everyone on the board wants to say 'W and you have a great chance of being together' "OM is nobody, forget him, there is nothing 'real' there" and I need to hear that if for no other reason than to give ME the 'fantasy' that what I am doing actually is 'working'. The biggest problem is the days when I really AM needy and I know W can sense it. Like right now.
I totally understand the 'attraction rule' to DB'ing and I just don't feel very attractive right now. I don't think W is ever attracted to me any more. I feel like crap. Sorry
Just finished a short talk with my friend Bryan who has been a really positive coach. He reminded me that some of the things I was feeling and doing on the campout were 'old' Frank, and that it was a backslide. Needy, anxious, fearful, that's probably why I feel so bad today.
And this exchange we had is starting to freak me out because it seems like she is so GLAD she doesn't have to really care about my feelings any more:
Quote: I said "I'm sorry if I'm being a little down or depressing, I hope you aren't feeling uncomfortable."
She says: "That's one of your problems, you worry about what other people are thinking and get your self esteem that way". I said: "I'm sorry I am just trying to clear things so you don't think I have any issues with you today, I'm just in the place I'm at'
She says: "I understand, I used to have to fix you all the time but now that I'm not married to it, it doesn't bother me".
I know I have to focus on the positive. I think I REALLY am so freaked out because early last week I was SURE W and OM's long distance relationship was over because SHE thought it was. She recognized that 'the relationship' was filling the 'empty spot' in her that she should be filling herself. It seemed like she was really realizing that she had a lot of work to do on herself. And maybe she knew that she shouldn't 'use' OM to fill that space.
Him coming back into communications with her after a couple weeks of sporadic e-mails and calls, and refilling her 'empty spot' and reassuring her he was going to come out here to live totally blew my confidence. Especially since she WANTS it so bad. She keeps giving him so much slack.
These are my fears. They are unreasonable because whatever SHE and OM do is not aimed at ME and it's not about ME it's about HER and how she deals with her emotional emptiness and need for a man to validate her. She even KNOWS this but she wants everything he says to be TRUE and I'm scared that it IS TRUE.
I gotta let her go. It's so F*king hard. I am paralyzed right now with anxiety and fears.
And I KNOW, I KNOW that when I DO let her go THAT is when she will want to try again. Because THAT is my problem, I was leaning on her for too much support while I was down.
But how the hell do you do it? How do you let go and keep hope alive?
And my options seem so contradictory. On the one hand be outgoing and playful when the opportunity arises. On the other hand detach emotionally so you won't get hurt. How?
I need to get out of here. My life is crazy now and I can't do anything about it.
] after I tell her I am going to respond to the paper work so she does not have to respond anymore to her attorney. You see I if respond it dies. But how does my wife get me to respond so it will go away without letting me know the fear of divorce is still out there. You see she has the balancing act to do. I know now she holds the D over my head to control me. Now I could be wrong but I dont think so. Slow and steady will tell all.