I think I’ve hijacked CeMar’s thread long enough, so I’m starting my own.
Chrissy,
I have many faults, among them is the fact that I have developed into a defeatist where W is concerned. I know all the clichés about not trying, but the fact is that I’ve tried and tried and tried some more for thirty years. The only time I’ve ever seen any difference in out SL was Spring 2004 – Spring 2005, and try as I might, I can’t for the life of me see any way that change was triggered by anything I did. I had an entire thread devoted to trying to figure out what was happening in our R/SL, but the best any of us could come up with was to stop trying to figure it out and just go with it. Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.
All of that is merely a buildup to telling you that I’m well aware that W could choose to step up to the plate and make an effort to meet my needs. But I’ve made it very clear that my sexual needs aren’t being met (or even addressed) and it has never evoked any response from her other than self-deprecation. She’ll say that she’s a bad wife, that she never should have gotten married, etc., but she won’t make any effort to change her behavior. I’ve tried and tried and tried to get through to her, but it never seems to work.
Now that the C has told me that both he and the woman we saw had independently diagnosed W with NPD, it’s just kind of taken the wind out of my sails. To a narcissistic personality, only their needs or desires matter. Other people don’t. Other people exist to “feed” them – it’s called narcissistic supply. The prognosis is almost universally bad. People with this disorder don’t get better. I’ve always been a very positive, glass half full, kind of person, but the grinding failures in dealing with this SSM have sucked all the positive thoughts out of me. I’m at the point that I just don’t think there’s anything I can do to make changes in the R. I can learn to deal with it, I can keep beating my head against the wall, or I can leave.
And that brings me to NOP. Just for clarity, let me quote here:
Quote: So, since the problem now has a name, will you become a volunteer who participates in her problem - a willing victim so to speak, or will you do something about the issues, and remove yourself from the slow motion train wreck that your marriage has become?
I would dearly love to do something, but I just don’t know what. I have another C appointment coming up, the first since he told me about the NPD. I’m ready to ask him, “OK, she has NPD. What now?” I also pose the same question to you. Everything I have tried has failed. For years and years I have shouldered more than my share of the blame in a fruitless search for some way to make W care about me and my needs. But all I have gotten is what you’ve so aptly termed a slow-motion train wreck. Now the C tells me that it’s almost impossible to ever affect change in a person with this disorder. So what am I to do? Given that I will not separate or divorce, how can I remove myself from this train wreck?
FYI - today is my birthday. The big 5-0. I'm leaving early today, so any answers to this thread probably won't be seen until tomorrow. I'll be here a little while longer - but not much.
I hope it is a good one for you. Wow, and what a big birthday it is.
No real R advice, I just wanted to chime in and say that we are all wishing a great day for you. Let us know how it went.
Try to enjoy it and don't let your usual..ahem..frugality..get in the way of enjoying this milestone.
Hey you being H's twin gives me some insight into your semi-grouchy Ah who cares about birthdays attitude.
Since you are his twin I will make you a homemade carrot cake and a steak dinner with a cold beer and a good book. Virtual of course. I have to tell you that virtual cooking is much more enjoyable than the real thing. lol
Happy Birthday Z-Bube. I feel for you. NPD is so hard to deal with. I'm pretty sure I mentioned my aunt has it. She lost all contact with her children. Very sad. Lives alone with a few calls a year from my mom (we live in a different state). You are only 50. Could live another 50 years. Are you really willing to live like this with none of your needs being met? I relate to some of your situation although I am not dealing with the NPD. Still, my H has a personality that is so entrenched in him that I don't know if he will ever be able to meet some of my emotional needs. And not that he doesn't want to. I truly believe he has no idea how to do so. With the diagnosis of NPD in your W, I can almost guarantee she has no idea how to meet your needs. I think you may be wrong in your comment that if she really wanted to she would. Some people do not have it in them to think that way. As painful as that is, the mental health treatment for any personality disorder to Not very effective. It is very sad. I am sorry you are going through all of this Z-Bube. I'm going to just tell you that my cousins are very happy to no longer have to deal with their mother. Of course they regret having to ever make that decision but they believe it was the right one. Sometimes you need to adjust your values when the circumstances are so extreme.
ZB- Something stuck out at me while reading your latest post...
I’ve tried and tried and tried some more for thirty years....But I’ve made it very clear that my sexual needs aren’t being met (or even addressed) and it has never evoked any response from her ....I’ve tried and tried and tried to get through to her, but it never seems to work....
Given that I will not separate or divorce, how can I remove myself from this train wreck?
It seems to me that until you give yourself the right to have needs and until such point that you respect those needs enough to do something about the fact that they are not met, your W has no reason to change.
You've said yourself how many times you've tried to communicate and change your circumstances. You cannot change your W's behavior and it seems that you cannot change her mind either.
This is the only life you've got. Don't fool yourself and chastise yourself by telling yourself that this is about sex. It isn't. It's about mutual respect and love and kindness. Sex is an act that expresses those things. In your case, no sex expresses a lack of those things. I believe there are other issues in your M that also express a lack of those things, such as the dogs. This isn't "just" a marriage without sex.....because a marriage without sex is really a marriage without a whole lot of things. In my opinion of course.
It seems like you'd have to be ignoring a whole lot of voices inside your head every day telling you that this isn't right. But you refuse to allow yourself the latitude it takes to change it.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Quote: -------------------------- So what am I to do? Given that I will not separate or divorce, how can I remove myself from this train wreck? --------------------------
By removing yourself from the train. I think the 'how' is clear. You tell me how you can do that, and we can go from there.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Quote: This isn't "just" a marriage without sex.....because a marriage without sex is really a marriage without a whole lot of things.
What a great quote!
P.S. NOPkins, reading Z's post made me realize that the Mrs. celebrated her birthday recently didn't she? Did we miss it? If so, wish her a belated bday from all of her admirers here!
