What now-did what I was supposed to!

[grasshopper]

Tim,

You sound good right now. Keep the 1/2 full thing going and save some for me cuz mine just spilled.
Anyway, one difference between our sitches is that my wife's actions and words are making me take stock on our life together and I can honestly say that going as far back as our honeymoon I can find examples of my destructive behavior that I believe led in part to this situation.
I am not blaming myself, but I am not as sure as you are that there is a happy place to get back to. Sure, there is a content, peaceful place, but according to my self-discovery and her recent words to me, there probably was never the marriage I imagined we had.
That said, I now KNOW that there is a chance that we could build a marriage based on years of genuine love, that would provide us the life and love feelings we both need. I know the skills can be learned to some extent but the ole leading a horse to water analogy applies.
I feel for you in getting to reconciliation and then realizing it was false, or at least partially false. That is one of my biggest fears and really one of the reasons why I go so crazy when I "act as if" and she pretends nothing is going on. It almost seems like things are ok again and then comes the time when before I would get a hug or kiss and...nothing. It's almost like I keep setting up myself for failure.
In your case, it seems like your W is trying, for some reason, really hard to protect what YOU need in the relationship. She is saying the words and even doing some of the acts. If my wife did that and then called the OM the next minute, I don't know how I would feel.
On one hand I would feel great that she may be warming up to me again, and that my DBing was working, but then I would feel like a doormat that maybe just needed a little cleaning (i.e. a hug, kiss, ily) to keep serving it's purpose.
Honestly, I think the best advice we keep getting is to realize that no matter what, we cannot control them. We can try to influence them but to make expectations that our influence will work and get us what we want is the same as controlling them. It makes us feel the same way when it doesn't work.
I don't know about you, but for me, my control issues are internal. I never told my wife not to do anything. I never "forbid" her. I just have expectations that she will behave in a way that makes sense to ME and when she doesn't I get upset. Crazy, huh.
Keep on moving forward and I think the real turning point for both of us will be when we've had enough. Not in a bad, hateful way, but in a self esteem reaffirming way that enables us to put our feelings ahead of any other factor in this process.
Right now I don't even know what I really feel other than pain and loss. Right now, as of that post, you feel hope. Grab ahold of that and ride it for as long as you can. Who knows, she may just get on with you and ride away into the sunset with the OM left in the dark...

totallymessedup

[hopefloats7]

It sucks to be in the middle of one of the most paralyzing situations of our lives and be faced with so many contrary theories.

I agree. I guess the way I look at it is all our situations are different. True, many of these WAS’s will say and do the same exact things, but there are still enough pieces to each of our relationships that make them unique. Hence, what works for one LBS may not work for the next. I try to keep that in mind when I’m thinking about what I should or should not do.

[grasshopper]

I like that hopefloats. It is simple, and obvious, but reading it I got a new burst of realization that I need to really look at my own sitch and decide what may be best for it. I also, and so do you Tim, have to realize that my decisions WILL NOT necessarily be what they would have been before. We have grown, learned and had feelings that will influence us from this point forward.
Thank you.

totallymessedup

[Tim297181]

I may "Sound good" in my postings but my heart and mind are still in turmoil! My hope and positivity today comes from the fact that she is going to go to councilling this evening. My "Hope" is that the councillor will push her in to reality, and we can continue to move forward. I am putting alot on this one session this evening and I don't want to set myself up for a big disappointment, but we hold on to many things that give us hope!
I will prepare for the worst and the best! Very prepared for the best but the worst situatuion is her to come home and say she needs "time to think" and wants to be "friends" so she can work on her own "issues"...meaning I want the OM and we are seperated!

[Tim297181]

Question:
Is it good or bad for your wife to go thru the "motions" of our relationhip? At times I feel she is just trying to make me happy by responding to my "I love you's" and my hugs and kisses? Is this something to build on or am I over analyzing again?

[pfb98]

You might want to just ask her. If you think that this is R talk and don't want to risk it, then just stop giving hugs and kisses and wait for her to do it.

In my W's case, small gestures of affection from me were very uncomfortable for her for a long time, eventually she just did not respond. I suppose it just reminded her that I was "needy" and that she was not in love with me. They'll come later, and they will be sincere.

As far as contrary theories and different styles for handling these situations, I think they all boil down to the same idea.

We can't change our WAS, but we can (and should) change ourselves. What we need to change is different for each of us. For the submissive doormat, reining in some control is important, for the control freak, compromise. Nothing new there I guess.

But despite the different tactics, the stuff works, just not necessarily the way I had thought it would (magic formula for saving marriage!... not exactly)

I have a good friend who has acted as my confidante throughout the last few months on all of this. He has a loving wife and great family life, and was a little baffled at how I was handling my situation. He just can't relate to all of this craziness. Lucky guy.

He thought that I should have been more proactive, forced the issue, given ultimatums from the start. Now, my W and I are not exactly reconciled, far from it, but I have a sense of well being and calm that I don't think I would have had if I had reacted more emotionally early on. And recently, he told me how much respect that he has for the way I've dealt with this. Respect - this was very important to me at this time, as all of you probably can relate to. Anyway, this reminded me that all of this effort and pain has a payoff regardless of what happens in my M. My children, my friends, even my W will probably respect and admire me, and most importantly, I will respect myself, and be able to have a more positive outlook after such a negative event.

Anyway - rambling, but just wanted to riff on the posts here.

[FinallyUnderstands]

Being analytical is hard to deal with, trust me. If you are getting ILYs from W then you should go with it. She might be going through the motions, but it's the other little things that you do that will help her understand that you mean it. Think of it this way...She IS responding..

[Tim297181]

Just had a weird afternoon?!?!
I called our marriage councilor to confirn our appointment for tonite (the plan is my wife to attend alone - to hopefully deal with the OM issues) Anyways she called me back and wanted to know what was happening. I gave her a quick rundown on what has transpired since our last session and she can't believe that my W is still in contact with the OM. I told her that she took his call right in front of me at a kids birthday party and can't believe it! Long story short she told me to stay the course and not bring up the OM at all. She respects how I have handled it so far and not to burn out. Stay positive and upbeat and hopefully something positive will arise after tonite??!!?
Then I went to our family doctor for a follow-up on my anxiety and sleep problems. He knows the whole story since m wife and I both go to him and he can't believe what she is doing either! HIs reaction was the same as our councilor.
So a little validation in what I am trying to do, but no real impact on the situation as of yet! It is nice to have others support your efforts and as said in the previous posting truly "respect" your efforts. But the bottom line is the only person that I want to truly respect my efforts in the end is my wife!!

[flaneur]

Hi Tim,

Sorry it took me so long to catch up but now that I did...((((((((((Tim)))))))). You've gottten some good advice here- especially from the men. It's nice for you to get their perspective as I believe it's a little different for the LBH than the LBW. On the other hand, you should try to read Piglet 2's posts as I believe at one point she was the WAS that had an affair. Don't know what advice I can offer and it doesn't seem to be agreeable to people when I do offer it so I'm just going give you another hug. (((((((((((Tim)))))))))))

Oh, I know, one thing.... try not to talk to MC or family doctor about situation. If I was your wife and found out, I'd be po'd. I actually didn't ever tell anybody about the A (well I told three close friends just before I moved and my in-laws). My parents still don't know and I think it made it easier for H to return because of this.

Hang in there!

[Tim297181]

Flaneur thanx for the hugs! back at you!
Any advice is good advice it is what you do with it! Everyones opinion is correct it is up to the individual to decide if they agree or disagree....I guess what I am trying to say is I would love any input from you (or anybody) because that is why I am on this message board.
Well another update in my day!
Hope those of you that have read my stitch will get something positive from the results I got today becasue the path I have choosen paid some small dividends today!

Came home and the W asked how the doctor appointment went. Told her it went great and he gave me a new medication to help me sleep. She asked why and asked if I told him what was going on! (This is the first time since Sat that the subject has even closely been discussed by both of us)
Long story short she got defensive and cold right away! You were right Flaneur!
Anyways she then got ready to go to her council session. Gave me a kiss, and I told her I love her, but she left without her wedding rings on! Anyways when she got home she gave the kids a kiss and came over and gave me a kiss! Nice! Seemed in a better mood so i asked how it went. Her response was
"It went well....the therapist thinks I am confused.....I am just not ready to talk right now so if you can give me some time and space because I don't want to cry" This was not a negative comment towards me but reading between the lines is she has to deal with the OM and needs her space!
So I said no problem and I am here for when she is ready. We had dinner talked a little more, gave her a hug and kiss! She said she just needs some time with no pressure from me, and that she knows I have been doing that for that last few days! Nice again!
The last thing was she came home with some literature from the councilor about alcoholics, and what effect they have on a persons life...Addictive behaviors! That is because the OM is an alcoholic.
Enough from me I just needed to type and get some of this off my chest! the bottom line is I am seeing some positive results from the path I have choosen so I hope others who can relate will get something from this!