Requiem for a Black Swan (aka Stigmata)

[Stigmata]

"...I sneezed. This particular sneeze was like some sort of low-grade nuke-yoo-lar blast. (Who am I kidding...all of my sneezes are like that). It was loud, and, as soon as the echoes of it died away, we were left with silence. My friend was the first one to speak up. With his hands outstretched, as if he were grabbing an invisible basketball, and his face twisted in a mixture of wonder and hope and sincere honesty he said:

"If only there was a way to harness that power!"..."

--LOL! I needed that HD. Remind me never to be near you during allergy season. Now let's harness that sucker and put OPEC out of business and keep these danged natural gas prices down. :-)


"And that's the point I'm trying to make, Stig. That was a great read, made even more compelling by the circuitous, stream - of - consciousness method you used. You are a creative, intelligent, emotionally vibrant writer, and if you're at all like that in person, well, meeting you would be an intense event."

--Aw...ya trying to make me blush? Bad-dog-bad! [waving finger at you).

And you'd be surprised. People feel at ease around me. Fs first sight impression is I'm cold like a northern German. Nah. I listen they soon find out. Weird. Have found others, esp. F, tell me things about themselves etc. they probably shouldn't to someone who's practically a total stranger.

For example, when I was in the hotel bar first night a F was upset. Yes, intoxicated, but lasered in on me. I only said a few things to her. Started grabbing me. Crying uncontrollably. Diagnosed with terminal stage 4 breast cancer 2 months earlier she sobs. Whoa. Held her up. Thanked me, kissed my neck. Whoa. Asked me to get her to her room or at least take her to concierge. Yes, ladies, I DID the latter. Sheesh. Shame on you for even entertaining that thought in your evil little minds. LOL. And don't you deny it. ;-)

"You are going through some painful times right now, and have suffered in the past. But don't let it consume you. Instead, think about this trite phrase: what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. It's trite, but there's a lot of wisdom there, too. I know that my pain has forced me to grow in ways I never would have, but for the need to stretch, to understand, to comprehend the madness."

--Yes. This is painful but it's second to other stuff I have survived that would bring many, if not most people to their knees. I will process it. And I know there's more pain in life to come.

"Harness the power. Use your pain to grow.

Hairdog

---

"

--Only after we harness that magnificent sneeze. LOL.

-Stigmata-

[Stigmata]

I never liked that expression " what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." The truth is, sometimes you are weakened by a traumatic experience. Some people end up in psych hospitals. Sopme people never recover."

--Agreed, in part, IHJ. I think the problem stems from when people (not you HD) overuse it who have never really had a REALLY tough "make you or break you" hardship. They dilute it for the rest of us maybe. I had someone use the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" line on me who couldn't even conceive of what I was dealing with at the time. Ok, thanks. And thanks for the 1920s reference since I have yet to know of anyone sporting bootstraps.

"My feeling is that a crisis, although certainly not welcomed, gives us an opportunity for change. You will not be exactly the same...hopefully, you move forward and gain some wisdom and personal growth for all the wear."

--Ah, yes. Crisis, Chinese character language meaning "opportunity." The Chinese have had a long time to think about this stuff.

Stigmata, I wish you peace of mind and better things in 2006.

--Thanks, IHJ. I just want the holidays to be over. Lot of memory triggers with x.

-Stigmata-

[LustForLife]

Hi Stigmata
Sorry you are suffering so much. You do have a way with words though. You and BF are eerily similar in your styles. He noted as much in his post to you. I hope you stick around and find some support from the fascinating people on this board. You already admitted you are drawn to this board so might as well go with it. Although we don't tend to associate with recessive gene MFers Ok, have to make a few jokes here and there. It cheers me up
Back to serious business though. I want to make an observation, related to your style (and BF's). Both of you tend to take an all or nothing approach to your R. She's either all in or she's out of your life completely. Am I wrong? I'm just thinking that maybe trying the "friend" approach might be necessary at this point. Ease your way back into her life again. She clearly wants that, inviting you to the party, calling you at the hotel, making comments about being impressed with your "persona" etc. I know it sucks. I've been there. H wanted us to be "friends" when he up and left. It was so hard and didn't always work out. But we are at least trying to make it work now. He's back home and let me tell you, last spring I would have bet my life that we were done. Ya just never know. But you know what, the only thing that worked on my end was GAL and STILL remaining somewhat friendly with him. He knew I was dating, moving on, not turning into a crumpled pile of self-pity on the floor. Not attractive for men or women. So that's all I've got right now. Let her in some, even if it hurts. I know the holidays are going to hurt. Last year was hell for me. I can empathize with you. Post away, vent, talk to friends, do anything but be totally alone. It's not good for you right now.
I'll make it through this, right?
Yes, you will. Without a doubt.

[Stigmata]

Argh!! I just realized responding to everyone indiv. is eating up my countdown to my 50 post limit. Sneaky!

Okay, so first, Dafty. Excellent link. I told x night of bomb directly that "love is a decision" etc. She disagreed. Wants to feel the butterflies again. If not, I'm not worthy. I go bye-bye.

Thanks for the words Dafty and Lillie.

Stig,

I really empathize. I know I may seem like the enemy given your quote:

----------------------------------------------------------
Pregnant and their SOs take off. These are not men..."

--Huh? I was not aware you took off, Chrome. I assume with W. But you're back, right? And I feel I must preface what I said with a note on maturity/age. If I got my GF preg. when I was 19 or 20 I may have panicked and wound up in Baja on a fishing charter. I am WAY diff. now than my 20s. And I do not judge. I am extremely flawed myself.

I found this curious list on an Australian attitudinal healing site. Principles of Life. I could post all 26 but will just poach them one at a time as I see fit:

19. Judgement: We have no right to judge another for their words, thoughts or deeds. They have the freedom of choice to do as they please and act as they wish, just as we do. We are in no position to judge anyone, as we are imperfect ourselves. It is easily done, for example, you see a big man with tattoo's,a skinhead and wearing leather, and the automatic assumption is that he is trouble. He may be a florist for all we know. This colours our judgement of people and changes how we act towards them. By having no preconceptions of other people, we can interact better with them, and perhaps make a new friend.


"...And even if you find someone who will stick with you through thick and thin, in the end, we all die alone. We all have to make that final step in ourselves, by ourselves. How do we combat that ultimate lonliness, that no matter how hard we try no one can ever fully share this journey with us. And the more we share, the more hurt and pain we open ourselves up to. And then if we do tie ourselves to someone, and they reject us later, how do we deal with the pain. Are we "men" and stoically endure, or do we give in to our baser animal nature and lash out, in one way or another. There has to be an answer to it all. But then I realize that people have been searching for this answer in one way or another for thousands of years (at least) and only a few ever find it."

--Outstanding insights--Well done, Chrome. Very eloquent. Are you SURE you're a physicist? Exit the womb alone; enter the grave alone. Yep. Valuable lesson re. SOs. They either help on our journey alone or hinder. Free will. Ah, perfect segue. Another life principle:

15. Freedom of Choice: We all have free will, and can choose to do anything we wish. There is no situation where we do not have choice. It may appear that we do not, but there are always options, if we have the courage and strength to take them. We just have to have the courage of conviction to make the decisions.

"OK, I'm starting to ramble a bit.."

--Mein freunde, that was not a ramble; that was valuable discourse to me and for me to further think about.

" I hope you will be able to look upon me as a friend, despite my shortcomings. If you'll have it, I give whatever help I can."

--But of course. And there is no such use for "short" talk apparently. You, me, BF, NOP etc. are not vertically challenged, apparently. Does this mean there's another board out there with a group of guys 5'3:?

"I hope for the best for you,

chrome

"

--Thanks Chromomaster. And to you and the family. At least I won't be blowing a fortune on x gifts now. Whaddaya know? A positive! ;-)

-Stigmata-

[blueblonde]

S - You sound incredibly like my H in your post. Though he does not have the vocabulary you possess to express himself, he appears to be as intense as you. Though he is not Taurus, but Scorpio, you sound so much like him I was drawn to your post. The anger emanating from you made my cheeks burn as does his.

I just wanted to say, as I would to him, today is not always the way it will be. You are so strong, keep up the GAL, time heals.

Your WAW appears to be clueless as to what she's given up.

[Stigmata]

Although we don't tend to associate with recessive gene MFers Ok, have to make a few jokes here and there. It cheers me up

--LOL. Keep it comin'. I revel in sarcastic/sardonic witticisms. LOL, I just pictured a new Punnett Square with the SSM types. Picture the opening of The Brady Bunch. It's all good. Mix all the homozygous AAs and aas and we'll all be one big heterozygous happy family.

"Back to serious business though. I want to make an observation, related to your style (and BF's). Both of you tend to take an all or nothing approach to your R. She's either all in or she's out of your life completely. Am I wrong?"

--Bullseye, LFL. Got me dead to rights. I keep falling into the trap of expecting everyone else to share my standards. People have different standards. Some have no standards.

I think that might be why x is afraid of telling me truths. She knows I have never hesitated burning bridges, razing the Earth, and salting the soil so nothing will ever grow there again. Probably why I have few friends, admittedly; "associates" or "acquaintances" I call most others.

That's why I'm so thrown here. If x were anyone else they would have been erased from my memory banks long ago. That's how I know it's love. Family and friends are shocked at my stoicism. Where's the wrath? Believe me, I peeked at the wrath monster over this one...and he is a goliath panting in his steel cage. Already gave a second chance with first A/OM. This would be #3...I am in no man's land of unfamiliar territory with this concept. If I had let the monster out of his cage during all of what has transpired there would be zero survivors. He would lay waste and I don't know if I could stop him.

(Nothing to do with physical BTW; not wired that way. Physical harm to Fs is strictly verboten in the Stigmata operator's manual. and if I know an M is doing it he will soon have a much more serious problem.)


"I'm just thinking that maybe trying the "friend" approach might be necessary at this point. Ease your way back into her life again. She clearly wants that."

--Your experience is a vital insight to me, LFL, Keep it coming. I'm a conundrum of brain hemispheric intertwinings/collisions. Unrestrained creative/abstract right brain/logical linear, calculating left. This goes against my deep-rooted Germanic pure logic linear left-brain (at some point I may get back to the equation talk; something about GFactor in QM wanted to discuss. Forgot.

Anyway, what I mean is I can't process being addressed by her in such detached generic terms. And it happened so fast. One second term of endearment, next-Stigmata etc. So cordial/businesslike now. Like I'm a networking contact in that fakey way of address. I want to reach out, shake her and just say, "would you cut the sh*t already?" But I can't. Alien. Sigh. But like I said, it's short-circuiting my logic.

" Let her in some, even if it hurts. I know the holidays are going to hurt. Last year was hell for me. I can empathize with you. Post away, vent, talk to friends, do anything but be totally alone. It's not good for you right now."

--Sigh. Yes. I am remaining receiving and not transmitting. Hard. And if OM2 WAY harder. I can tolerate some normal human lies but if x is continuing to hide behind them I will lose more and more respect.

Should have been an actress. Amazing. Almost convinced me of no A even after irrefutable proof. She will be what causes this whole R to hang in the balance. I know her lying pantomimes and she knows the levels of my perception (or at least thinks she knows).

I'll make it through this, right?
Yes, you will. Without a doubt.

---

--Thanks, Lust. Yes, will be with family. Christmas day will be a long day. Beta wants me to call x. Won't.

-Stigmata-

PS --Blackfoot, I see your post. Yes, will be a good joust. One thing I have to observe here though.

The "letting OM within circle of proximity." I am going the other way on this currently. Removing my hot light on you and directing it to your x. Let's say I have a suitcase of cash opened on the table in my apt. My best friend is watching TV. I go out on an errand. I trust that every single cent will be intact when I come back. If not? This is not my issue or responsibility. It is his alone. Some call it character. The rub comes when the actions of the friend, in this instance, violates our value constructs. Hard to get back to that trust, if ever. Sigh. So do we drop our hard line with our x's? Is there even such a concept as levels of trust? And, if in new R where do we set the bar now?

Like I said. I can't hold others to my standards; they have theirs; some have none. Life is hard enough watching what I am doing/not doing to have to guide others (ie, removing obstacles, temptations that I feel/assume are obstacles, temptations.) Comprendes?

[blackfoot]

Gave stig a chance to reply first to you lfl

Both of you tend to take an all or nothing approach to your R. She's either all in or she's out of your life completely.

speaking for me, yes. I gave her another chance. I owned my mistakes and then made apparently another. I dont really give people who F me over a second chance. I warn em once. Their loss. I make deep EC with poeple once I choose to, but in general dont make any with superficial friends. She knew of this and saw this happen. Life is short I dont have time to waste with that kind of lack of boundary on my part. She is the only one I have ever had a hard time doing it with. I still struggle with it at least once a week. If I didnt know the science behind love emotions I would still probably we trying...


This is also a typical male vs female reaction. Dr. Harley mentions it. He also contradicts himself fairly regularly about what should be and what has to be done to reconcile with a WAW. I believe in DBing down to my core, but I dont believe in it at all costs. MWD, as much as I admire and respect her, I disagree with not ferreting out affairs. Love must be tuff, and better it goes with a bang, then a slow wither and wimper.
I made my best effort to make myself open to and available to a true honest reconcil the second time, though I did want the timer of the D running in the background. For me there is no remarriage. People fall back into old ways of relating even after a long time of seperation. For her that means lying, cheating, affairs. No thanks. she proved that twice. She thinks of me as being such a terrible husband and person that she could justify it. Somehow my relating to her, I was unable to provide her with what she needs. Ok. I was unable to fulfill her survival need and provide her with the proper brain chemistry. In her words I am 'bad for her', so-- I will stay away from her. She told the judge that there was no chance, nothing could possible fix our R. I went just so I could hear that. That is her perception of me. Valid. Her words, her choice, and I am no longer going to use my skills with frame control and attraction and knowledge of R/M dynamics.
Im going to stop talking now, cause I dont know which is talking anymore my emotions or my logic. I feel nothing, but my feeling of nothing is slightly passionate in tone.

Mines done. I wont ever allow myself to love another like I did her. (this is why nops says to wait at least a year. so I can calm down.) That makes me sad and feel a great emptiness. Next time, god forbid, the woman will be out at the first inappropriate word, without a word. I will file instantly and if I have kids do everything in my power to retain complete custody of them. Whoever she is will know this.

[blackfoot]

"letting OM within circle of proximity."

Ok stig, I am with you. I know, and believe that if I had what it takes, she wouldnt wander if brad pitt shared our bedroom. But.... You dont put your wife in the position I did. She had no respite, and was naive. In your analogy, you dont leave the money lying there if your best friends kids are in need of food and he has no money. You dont put a hot dog on the floor and beat the dog if he eats it. She is a human, not some supreme mistress of all things moral.

Even Nop called me on this. Why did I play relational leap frog.
I have argued this both ways in my head, taken your current stance with my mother, and been chastised for it by the ladies here also.

I bet you werent dumb enough to let OM live with you, watch him pursue your wife unchallanged, and include him in extracurricular play times to boot. Here OM drop tons of LU into my W LB, while I cut off our strong, important to her EC.

She has integrity, but she is very much controlled by PEA and NGF when it hits her. she is hypersensitive to chemicals. I knew this. I am not, maybe you arent either. I can pretty much remain unchanged to outward appearances. Oh but I found one I am not. overpowering jealousy, loss and withdrawal. Maybe thats my curse the good ones are not overwhelming the bad ones destroy me. LOL. We are talking about biology here. You dont mess with that. I loved her because she had so much emotionality. I stopped being her rock and her sturdy man. I shut her out. ughh. Its done. over. Lets deal with you.



Like I said. I can't hold others to my standards
No you can choose to not allow those without your standards to be a part of your life though.


in this instance, violates our value constructs. Hard to get back to that trust, if ever. Sigh. So do we drop our hard line with our x's? Is there even such a concept as levels of trust? And, if in new R where do we set the bar now?

Boundaries. I know what I want from a Marriage. Im not afraid of not finding another, not afraid of being alone, not afraid there isnt as good. I dont want to play ping pong with OM using my x as ball. I love her more then that. I RESPECT myself more then that.
I wont settle for less then what I want. Hopefully I will be more rational and not expect the ridiculous, next time. I dont think I will. I have a good feeling on the difference between cherishing and protecting and jealousy now. YOur R is for you to decide. My x is no longer in my reality. Judge banished her to alternate universe.

Well see if my future insecurities are stronger then this insight I have gained.


If you quit posting at some predetermined number, I am going to send a cross-continental, telekinetic, smack to the head.

Im going to be incommunicado for a few days now, again.

[snookchaser]

... but I met my physical alter ego 2 weeks ago. At my feeding spot. We both just stopped and stared.

Hey BF and Stig,

On a related note, I've got one for you both. I ran into my x (D over 13 years ago) last month right in front of me in the check out line at the local grocery (right down the friggin street ).

I haven't seen her in years, I didn't even notice her at first. She look at me and said "Snook"? I replied, and then in true x-wife fashion said, "Wow, you look pretty rough".

To which Snook could only reply, "Geeez, Thanks..."
I was just glad it was the express line.

Stig,
Hang in there Dude. I will get better with time.

[karen1]

Gentlemen,

I just wanted to tell you that I hear and feel your pain and I'm sorry for the disappointments you have all endured with your exes. I have an ex, whom I was married to for 10 years. He is still the man I had to leave. He has learned nothing from what went before and I am grateful to have finally left him and that life behind. I am also grateful for the lessons that I've learned. My current H is not perfect but I am not afraid to give this my all, to love him not only as much as I loved ex-H but more, to give more, to risk more and even to feel more. I guess there is a chance that I will pay for it in the end. If so, so be it.

You guys, Stigmata, Blackfoot, Snook, may have loved and lost but you are still here to live and love again when the time is right. Take some valuable time off like Nop suggested and when the time is right and the person is right give it your all again.

Karen