Rere honey...I am so sorry that you are so down...and while we can all say that you need to emotionally detach...I know from experience it is much easier said than done and you will in your own time.
By contacting the ow you are giving her more power than she deserves. I've done it before, sat down and had a heart to heart with ow in the beginning of all this...and she took all that I shared with her, turned it completley around and used it against me and Dave thought I was out to get him.
Let's also look at it another way...the ow is involved with a married man...what morals do you think she has. She probably already suffers from extreme low-self esteem and no self-confidence otherwise why wouldn't she look for someone who is available. No they have no respect for themselves, they have no morals...so what good is talking to them. As Kimmie said to me "I know what you are going through, my exH left me for another woman." Well then if you knew and understood then WTF did you take up with him and get involved without letting him go through the grieving process of our R? No, I sincerely doubt that there is much you can do to convince them otherwise...but if you feel you must, then you do what you feel you need to do.
I personally have not seen anyone have any luck when confronting the op. Instead step back and look at the big picture...what was it that led your H away from the marriage and into the arms of someone else. This is something that you have control over and have the power to change. That is what DB is all about...making changes for yourself and perhaps your WAS will see these changes and find that the grass in NOT greener elsewhere. But they must be true and consistent changes that they can actually see in you.
I haven't figured this out! or much about any of of this! And I thank Becca for her reply above about her 2 ideas, that make a lot of sense.
#1. CUT H off-! because if my head thinks , instead of my heart, H must realize he cannot have his needs met by 2 of us. Also, at the time we are ML it is easy to forget her temporarily, but down the road it does seem harder to think H could be this tender and intimate about ML to me, and makes me obcess how it is with her. And yes, I do get more depressed eventually, because after ML it is VERY hard not for me to have expectations. It's hard for me, and seems like also for us to ML and act to each other like it is only "an act", we both tend to cling a lot and just hold each other afterwards all night. Sad, but a place I never want to leave
OR #2. Finally after 10 months of S, even if he still is with OW, maybe H is opening window to me and closing on her. Maybe this will be the bridge of some kind of opening up for any kind of R talk, or even talks of his feelings. My H has said so little about any of his feelings, besides "how bad he feels" At the time , ML with H has been so tender and intimate, and if I let my heart take over, it is enabling to temporarily forget the last 10 months.
Rere, thanks for your thoughts and also so sorry you are feeling down about this idea of detaching and your situation with your H also.
Sounds like you and your WAS talk about his OW--this seems like something that could be so hurtful for you and sorry you need to hear about his attachment. Myself and H do not bring her up at all. Anytimes in the past when I have blown my cool and brought his OW up, it definitely made mine clam up and run, not to be heard of for more days. I think the guilt is what does it for my H.
And yes I am depressed after ML , mostly because I realize I can only fool myself for so long about the intimacy we felt for that night. Then unfortunately it's back to this real world that involves way too many outside people that I have absolutely no control of.
No, for last couple years, our SL was not good at all, Now looking back I can see that vicious cycle of me thinking we needed more intimacy for SL and my H thinking "no SL, then no intimacy". I know it wasn't that easy. I am just so upset that we have not even gotten to the point of MC together, so can't even begin to start working on any of us, Not until we get the OW, ( i like to call her the ho) out of the picture! Yes, I think we have made small steps, and feel I have changed for the better, but also learning that my H must see the changes and not have me announcing them. He really must see that I am GAL and that he misses this . That's the hardest part for me too. I try not to pursue, but pretty much try to mirror his attention to me or comments. I just try to test things then slowly, i.e. if he wrote a note and signed it Love , I would not suddenly gush out all my affection, I try to go slow. I think we go up the hill and then unfortunately slide down again.
How long do we wait?
That's why I really believe you should not ever mention this OW or call her. Please write down on these boards all the awful things you would do and say to her. I will personaly do and say them for you on these boards.!!! We can throw rocks through their windows, write profanity on their walls, whatever we want!-- that could be a great thread that I bet has been covered, as long as we do it here and keep our control. How many times have I told myself, I MUST not let this OW take control of my emotions.
No, I don't know who the OW is, my H's OW lives about 3-4 hours away, and I only know bits and pieces from my past snooping. That's another whole subject too,which I'm sure we all know what is good for us and what isn't. But I for one have done some and can't deny I won't in the future. I don't always like what I find, but somehow feel it gives me a glimpse at how they are in their R, and possibley what's to come, and I've even thought of the financial reasons if suddenly I heard or read something that I should know about for my safety. please hang in there, and maybe we can all coast through these holidays happy and blessed with what we have, and if WAS aren't able to see this, then we will build our own peace and happiness. take care. Please let us all know what we can do to your H's OW--or can i call her a ho too?
Your subject line caught my eye as I have been through the exact same thing.
Prior to my seperation, the SL wasn't so good. For some reason, a few months into the seperation, things between my H and I heated up. And the SL became so very good.
So where did it get me? ...........
Well, I think it showed him a side of me he had never seen. A side of me that he liked very much. I do think it helped our relationship a great deal. However, there were times when it made it so difficult for me to detach. I started feeling used because he would come here, get what he wanted and then not too long after he would leave. I would always feel slighted because he never stayed the night. Sometimes it was very difficult to hide my dissappointment and sometimes I would give in and start pursueing or bringing up R talks again. Those times did not help our R.
But.....the last time we have been together was over 2 months ago. And this chain of events seems to have been good for him. It seems that seeing how good our SL could be was definately winning points for me. And now that he hasn't been able to get what he wants for 2 months, he is missing it. Yeah, he admitted to me that he missed it and he thinks about it alot. He has even, on his own, mentioned one particular night that was extra special to me and told me that it was special to him too. Some people could say that's just him talking to get what he wants. But it's not. I know it's not because he has had several opportunities in which I have been more than willing but we have together decided it was best not too. He tells me that he wants to be with me but he doesn't want to hurt me again.
As far as your two possible options are concerned, I cannot tell you what to do but I can say that I wouldn't change a thing in regards to the post-seperation SL. Over the last two months there has been a "no sex" rule in effect but that has soley been at my H's discretion, not mine. So I cannot say I actually "cut him off".
A little not to I believe Rene
Confrontations w/the OW are never good. I've had several and all I succeeded in doing was pushing him closer to her and farther from me. The times he "sided" with her really added to my feelings of hurt and betrayel and made things even worse.
No, my H doesn't talk about the OW, I do. Actually, since I found the letters four days ago (one to her, one to the first OW who he's still in contact with but doesn't see), this is what prompted the OW talk.
I was so down from not sleeping, having to go to a Taekwondo belt ceremony and party, and obsessing over my snoop finds the day before, that by the time he came and we had some Merlot in the restaurant, I couldn't stop myself.
But I do think I handled it in a good way. He denied it was the same OW, and he didn't get angry with me. He never talks about his women. Months ago he would mention a little here and there (and this was before I'd read much on the subject) and I would begin crying, pleading, screaming, everything I wasn't suppose to do, and so he quit talking at all about them. Since I've read practically everything that's been written on the matter (e-books as well as regular books (I have about 50 books just on this subject)and know that you can't do that and have your mate want to be around you at all.
Your sitch is so similiar to mine. Today I'm feeling very ambiguous about everything. I don't know if you know it, but I'm dating also. Last night I went to dinner with a MF and it was nice. It's nothing serious but fun and pleasant. I have a date with another MF on Friday. I've been seeing these two for a month and a half. It stops the pain of my H momentarily, but in a way adds other complications. The older man that I'm seeing asks so many questions about my WAS that it was becoming annoying, yet I know he doesn't want to get hurt. This is yet another reason I took the no-contact stand with H.
It may be that since in both of our sitches the SL wasn't very good, that maybe this is why our WAHs are wanting to pursue this aspect in our marriages even though they are in other Rs. What do you think? I've read that if the married couple has a good SL while married, that a whole lot can go wrong in the M before the S will leave.
Some other questions: you may have stated some of this at the beginning of your thread, but how long have you been separated? How long has the S.x been going on, and has it been regular? And have you ever gone dark or told him no-contact? If so, for how long did you do it?
One point about MC, unless the WAS is willing to work on the R (ho or no ho) traditional MC can hurt more than help the M. Michelle talks about this in her DR book.
What I want to do right now, jeanb, is go to the RV and make mad passionate love with my H. I want this more than anything. But the letters I found keep popping up in front of my eyes. He is in love with others--not me. This limbo state has been going on for 7 months. His new OW he's had for only 2 months. He was actively searching the whole time he was seeing me and ML with me. So now I'm thinking I'll not see him any longer. Of course, I've always changed my mind and contacted him, we'll see if this time will be different.
You hang in there too. Do you have any plans with your H over Christmas?
hi Tessa, I think we have posted to each other in the past due to some same sitch's. I also remember thinking what a pretty name, I am a nurse, and thought you were too. That was a while back, and if you are the same,-------we still are here! My subject line here is new, because after being S for 10 months now, the SL just began couple weeks ago. As I said above, it really just happened and was more tender and intimate than the SL we had in the last year before out S. That's why my head and heart are having this battle!
Yes, this new SL ( actually few episodes in last couple weeks, but happened now everytime H has come home lately) has maybe shown my H a new side, but I also think it makes it impossible to continue expecting zero from these WAS's. Same for you? And yes how do you detach from someone this way? I definitely pursued over the weekend, because in a recent email my S in one paragrah wrote "how great it was to be together, misses us:---but in the next paragraph wrote me about "can't come home for few days, is house sitting", which I know is bs. Whether I should have or shouldn't have I responded with saying I knew he would be with OW, and went on and on about my rollercoaster that was going up and how the rides down are crashing too hard.
I think the guilt is keeping my H silent and on the run. When I was able to have SL without R talk, am thinking H much more comfortable. too easy for him? But where does that put us? See I really don't have any of this figured out.
Your sitch. when you spoke of your H and yourself able to talk about not having SL recently because it was best for you, seems encouraging. Your H may truely want to wait and be with you totally, when his head and heart can love you as you truely deserve. I'm sure you know him best and hopefully you are doing what is best for yourself.
That's where I have the same problem. My heart thinks it's best " at the moment", but reality down the road sets in. After my R pushing this weekend, my H has kept silent and totally backing off.
I keep promising myself to coast the next few weeks and keep giving this all time. I have crashed pretty low this time now and am thinking of a decision to H that may occur after holidays. Yes, that decision we all probably try to fight back--the "i love you, but cannot stay in a R that includes OW--so go on your journey" I won't use the D word, but will let H know , after 10 months now, I will release him to travel his own path. But then I stop myself and try to think how far we have come from 10 months ago, relating to each other less stressfully and H coming home has been much less strained lately. How have your last 2 months been for yourself? I know these holidays are taking a beating on all of us. That's why I decided to start writing my "letter" to H about loving him and also releasing him. I know I will absolutely not send or talk about until this for several weeks. Time,---- is it helping us? or just dragging us down?
I am thinking just knowing I have my letter, my thoughts, in my power, that I can decide to give them to H whenever I choose ,is keeping me in control now. I am starting 2 sides of a new journal, why I should continue DB and be patient, or Why should I let go and let H go on his own journey now. I will probably have this letter written and rewritten many times, and most likely post it at some point just to get it out!
For now if SL happens, and the timing is right, and H and I find each other again, together as I always want to be, I am sure my heart will win over my head. I am able to fool myself for short periods , sad to say they don't last, and I also think this recent R push on my part has most likely sent H back into his sad depressed, guilt ridden, ambivalent tunnel. If you are a nurse, as I, we seem to give so much of ourselves to our patients and I know I see how quickly people can be taken away from each other. Yesterday I had a couple, married 62 yrs!, and wife had to go into nursing home. I know her H will be at her side to the very end.
How about your decision you mention about the "cut off"? If things are right in your sitch. would you allow yourself? maybe it's something we can't plan, and just trust instincts. Hang in there too.
Rere, so sorry you have to feel the hurt when finding out about OW. If you're like me, I think I want to know, or have to know, but when i do, I am usually in a worse place. If I try to be rational, I will know the status of my H and this OW by his actions only. If there is more of H positive attention towards me, there must be less of this OW.
you mention you are have stopped the pleading and crying--great job and know what inner strength you have to do this! Dating I think is totally your decision, and someting I am not ready for. I am still pushing myself for the GAL and starting to enjoy some groups of friends.
I'm not sure at all about the SL now vs. the rotten SL before our S. I am sure my H still not sure of who I am, or have become, or mostly who he is or what he wants. That's the hard part too for us, no matter how hard we want to try and are trying--we just can't fix them!
I am writing now something I copied way back when I started this board that I am writing now and reading to remind myself. Something a wise poster wrote, that I need to reread very often. maybe it will help you also. I will shorten, but if it helps will rewrite all--it even helps me to rewrite.
THE LAST RESORT TECHNIQUE AS I SEE IT.
iT isn't so much a defined set of actons or a "plan". To me, it's more of a lifestyle, an attitude and a state of mind.
If you have the right state of mind, your partner will KNoW yOu have set both them and yourself free by your words, actins and attitudes.
It's when You finally take your life back, knowing that the DB you've been learning is mostly for YOU and the quality of YOUR life. If you happen to draw our partner back to you, well that's an added benefit.
It's when you are able to quit "reacting" to everything your partner does, or doesn't say or do. you begin taking the actions required to make your ife situations better for YOU.
It's when you can stop letting fear guide your actions, and can open your mind up to a whole new world full of solutions to situations you face in your daily life.
It's when "going dark' isn't merely done to prove to your partner that their life will suck without you, while your're hanging around for them to "wake up", to call or show up to profess their undying love for you. It's when yu can use the 'dark" times to work on urself and take a much needed break from the chaos. (that's the part I have underlined in red!) When you can re-center yurself upon YOURSELF and not them or your R with them.
It's when you are no longer willing to put your life on hold while you are waiting for your partner to recover from their MLC or their own problems., depression, an on-going affair, their lack of love for you, or whatever. You realize that you are in charge of your own life, that YOU are responsible for YOU, and you don't have to sit around in limbo until they change. You totally quit playing the blame game. It's when you realize that you are not a victim to what life deals to you.
It's when you realize that your partner is a flesh and blood human being, that they have their own faults, doubts, demons, and fears, jus the same as you. When you can bigin to let go of trying to control the way they think and feel. When you learn to let them "own" their thoughts and feelings without assuming that YOU are responsile for or have control over those thoughts and feelings. When yu can not necessarily understand them, but truly accept them.
It's when you can learn to be humble enough to admit that maybe this really isn't all about you, and you can stop taking all of your partne's actions and moods pesonally. When you can let them talk to you, vent their anger, thoughts, and feelings to yu, without you feeling that it's all your fault, and that you can fis it and make it all better. Or that they really want you to make it all better. Or, that you even have the power to do that.
It's when you stop trying to push or pull your partner back into the R with you, and begin to draw them back to yu. When yu strive to become an irresistible magnet that no person can top from being attracted to. Because you are doing this for yourself. Someone that can make your partner feel that their lives are less joyful and fulfilling, if they decide to spend it apart from you, to not have you near them. That you are someone that can add eaning to their lives just by knowing you. That can be an example of being the vest that you can be.
It seems that thinking about the LRT can bring many negative and final thoughts to mind. I encourage everyone to reframe these thoughts, to put a positive spin on the concept to see the actual benefits of this.
This person ended this post with: I know that there's a lot of times I wish that I would have seen this tool in a more positive light sooner in my own journey. As for me, it may be somethingI want to use as an "On gong Technque" instead of a "Last Resort Technique"
I wish I knew who this wise DBing poster was, I would thank him/her for something I have read and reread for many many months. Hope it gives others some positive aspects too.
The post that you gave is wonderful!! Thanks so much for sharing it with us.
I'm seriously debating about breaking my darkness. Today is the third day and I may end up going to the RV tonight just to give him the mail and let him take it from there. I seriously don't know what to do at this point.
Have you ever gone dark or told your H no contact?
Yes, I'm seeing a couple of people, the reasons for doing this varies and too long to go into now. And seeing others does complicate the sitch too--though I do sense more respect and interest from my H now that he knows others are interested in me.
For one thing, he used to hesitate before we ML, saying things like,"This isn't healthy for us, I don't want you to have unreasonable expectation, I don't want you to be more hurt, etc." But lately he hasn't said these things--not since I've actually been dating and not just corresponding.
You said:
Quote:
I'm not sure at all about the SL now vs. the rotten SL before our S. I am sure my H still not sure of who I am, or have become, or mostly who he is or what he wants. That's the hard part too for us, no matter how hard we want to try and are trying--we just can't fix them!
It's probably good that your H isn't sure who you are or have become b/c it kind of matches his self image right now, and it also helps him see you within an aura of mystery. Do you ever do any 180s on him?
As far as fixing them: I believe that's why they are chasing OW--to be fixed. So if we just love them as they are and compliment them, etc. and let the OWs fix them, in a way we're reversing roles with the OWs. We, in a sense, become the OWs.
I remember once about three months ago, we had gone out and came back here to our house where I'm living. He wanted to ML and I said no. Well this time he wouldn't take no for an answer. But I do see this as my fault as much as his-though some will say this isn't the case. Has anything like this happened to you? And any advise about breaking my darkness will be appreciated.
Sorry for the last post I left, it was not speellchecked by myself! The original unknown poster was very eloquent. Mine looks like a 1st grader's spelling and I apologize, I think I was just pounding on those keys.
i will reread your post Rere and give some thought, off to my job for now. Have a good one yourself.
Rere, Good for you and please hang in there. As others have said, it's a holiday that we can all make it through, and will be proud of ourselves for it. I know you can do it.
Yes, I have gone dark, and very hard. Many times I run to the phone to check for voice mail, caller ID, or any email from H. Many times I have to physicaly and mentally stop myself from the pursuing. It has gone so much better for our R when I wait and let H initiate the contact. I do only now return the important calls that need to be made, and make them quick. We still have phone conversatons where it gets quiet and tense, and I am getting very good at a quick friendly goodbye, to be the first to end.
The best is when my S19, who is home with me, answers the phone to say , no mom is out , especially if mom left the house dressed up. Much better to have son tell H , and leave H hangin.
And yes, it is sooooo hard. Many times when my H does come by house and I know it is time for H to leave, I literally have to have my back to him, like at the kitchen counter and say my friendliest goodbye and a quick wave. I refuse now to watch him walk down the back sidewalk to his car. Still is hard and probably still will be.
I have also asked H not to tell me where he will be. So many months of lies of his whereabouts, I got sick of him thinking I believed it, so just asked him friendly and politely, not to tell me and give me the courtesy of telling me when he is coming to the house. Much better for both of us.
Let's hang in there, I'm hoping to have a quiet christmas eve with my family side, my H was invited, but I did not pressure. Sadly, not sure what H has planned with MIL, I feel it is his responsibility to initate plans and hard when H does nothing. My MIL , am sure knows, but I think MIL is like my H and does not talk about any real feelings.
Christmas Day, am hoping to go to afternoon movie with my 2 children ( 21 & 19) after church in morning. Or even lay around, rent movies, and find open chinese. Would give you open invite to join!!--I even rented the cute new video "march of the penguins"--gonna do anything but try not to dwell on him.
Also gave some thought to a gift, didn't want to get anything., but decided to get a salvation army gift certificate ( in my H's name) for hurricane victims in New Orleans and the families sent in their requests. This way it is a great cause and I think very generic, something I would have done for a "good friend", even though my h really deserves sh*t. Take a day at a time. You're doin good. Jean
