I ran across this article in my web browsing and thought I would share it. I think part of our getting to where we are today is a direct result of NOP's persistance about dealing with our sexual issues and our scheduling regular sex. NOP and I have both said before that it wasn't good sex or connecting sex most times - it was more of a grit our teeth (for both of us) and get through it kind of sex.
Scheduling was a tool that kept forcing us at each other. That sort of scheduled sex wasn't the kind of sex that anyone longs for or looks forward to - but it served a purpose.
But even in relationships where the sex isn't an Armageddon issue, scheduling is encouraged.
It is unfortunate how many couples will regularly go without sex, if sex cannot be spontaneous. Indeed, it is somewhat surprising that high-functioning people who plan everything in their lives from dinner with in-laws to movies and parties with friends, can balk at the idea of planning to have a regular sexual encounter with their mate. Why sex must be spontaneous, i.e. random and unplanned, to be meaningful, special and pleasurable is not rational and, one might suggest, fundamentally immature. If scheduling and planning are appropriate for a summer vacation or a Thanksgiving dinner, there is no apparent reason why the same should not follow for sex. In fact, one wonders if sexual spontaneity is some primitive instinct that has outlived its usefulness in modern, western society?
Not quite so fast. It has now been demonstrated that new love with an underlying sexual passion affects the chemistry in the brain allowing a dopamine surge that usually can be experienced for the first 6-24 months of a relationship. (Often it is the desire for this narcotic-like effect that can entice the most loyal of spouses into a romantic affair.) While brain chemistry similar to that initial surge can reoccur in a long-term relationship in response to the absence of a mate due to a long distance separation or an extended business trip, ordinarily the brain chemistry that undergirds regularly spontaneous, passionate sex has at the extreme about a two-year life cycle. Yet, sexual intimacy remains crucial to keeping a relationship energized well beyond that two year period. Not making time for sex can undermine even the best of relationships; just waiting for sex to happen can be a recipe for disaster.
The three most important elements of a strong couples bond are respect, trust and intimacy. Sexual (and emotional) intimacy is a crucial mainstay of the relationship. However, all too many marriages become virtually devoid of sex within the first three to four years. (Research indicates that 40% of couples who divorce, divorce during the first four years of marriage, and low or no sex is the number one reason.) Many become low sex marriages and others become no-sex marriages in which sexual encounters seldom occur more than ten times a year. (Interestingly, in 90% of these cases it is the male who has decided to stop having sex.)
On the surface, it appears that both men and women often become so busy with work and social activities, or children, they consider themselves too fatigued and frustrated to be spontaneous about sex. Rather than taking steps to ensure regular sex with their partner, each may begin to fall into a pattern of making themselves less sexually attractive or available. Which brings me back to my original inquiry, why is it that no matter how busy couples are they can find time to plan and schedule a myriad of events but don’t seem able to make the same commitment to scheduling and planning for sex? Put another way, is the claim that sex should always be spontaneous an excuse for not being sexual with a partner? Why are couples often so willing to forego the supportive effects sexual intimacy provides to a relationship? Is it the absence of the dopamine surge or an indication of more serious issues in the relationship?
Experience suggests that a good rule of thumb for couples in long-term relationships is that both partners have a right to expect that sex will occur at least once a week, and that both have a responsibility to ensure it will—even if it means scheduling and planning. Such a commitment involves more than going through the motions. It necessarily means taking the time to ensure that sex is not only physically satisfying but also that sex psychically supports all or most all of the other aspects of the relationship. What do I mean by taking the time? Regular sex should include playful touching, affectionate touching, sexual touching, sexual pleasuring, erotic techniques and afterplay which serves as an emotionally nurturing transition period back to life’s other responsibilities. Don’t climax and run. Pleasurable and relationship-supportive sex is far more than mere genital manipulation. It is not for the immature and faint of heart. In short, do plan and schedule sex. And take your time - life will wait. " End Article:
Also, I wonder for those of you in counselling, if your marriage counselor isn't working from a place of acknowledging the need/importance of sex in your relationship and heading toward that as a goal, then maybe locating and printing out articles on that topic that could be forwarded to them might be in order.
Gel, one of the things that seems to stand out to me is that many folks who are in counselling seem to be led by the counselor to deal with anything and everything BUT the lack of sex.
I ran across something else in my internet wanderings. I've been researching intimacy and ran across a few articles on that topic.
Intimacy is a process – not a thing. It takes place over time and is not stagnant. In fact, any kind of stagnation in a relationship kills intimacy. Intimacy can also take many forms.
One form of intimacy is cognitive or intellectual intimacy where two people exchange thoughts, share ideas and enjoy similarities and differences between their opinions. If they can do this in an open and comfortable way, then can become quite intimate in an intellectual area.
A second form of intimacy is experiential intimacy or intimacy activity. Examples of this would be where people get together to actively involve themselves with each other, probably saying very little to each other, not sharing any thoughts or many feelings, but being involved in mutual activities with one another. Imagine observing two house painters whose brushstrokes seemed to be playing out a duet on the side of the house. They may be shocked to think that they were engaged in an intimate activity with each other, however from an experiential point of view, they would be very intimately involved.
A third form of intimacy is emotional intimacy where two persons can comfortably share their feelings with each other or when they empathize with the feelings of the other person, really try to understand and try to be aware of the other person’s emotional side.
A fourth form of intimacy is sexual intimacy. This is the stereotypical definition of intimacy that most people are familiar with. However, a this form of intimacy includes a broad range of sensuous activity and is much more than just sexual intercourse. It’s any form of sensual expression with each other. Therefore, intimacy can be many things for different people at different times. End Article:
I found it interesting that these categories tend to follow several (not all) of Harley's emotional needs list -
Affection Sexual Fulfillment Conversation Recreational Companionship Honesty and Openness
I think the various approaches to intimacy are an indication of how two LD people can be married, not having sex (or not having it often) and still having an intimate marriage rather than just being roommates. It would also indicate that two people in a relationship can and do get differing levels of connectedness/intimacy from the same sexual encounter.
Actually the article about scheduling in many ways echoed so many things I've told my H. We scheduled dates together when dating, we schedule Dr's appointments, we schedule vacations, we schedule haircuts, nail appointments, times for contractors to come give us bids on things we want built....but we don't schedule time for "US". I tried to explain that it's only reasonable for us to schedule time for ourselves, we are busy people, we have a family, we have work...we have other committments in our daily lives...if we don't schedule time for us....we don't take the time for us.
The article you just now included is also very interesting I'll have to read further on it as well.
Good articles. You are dead on about the counseling. Our C steered us away from that topic. At first I thought she was being strategic then she mentioned that she and her H had an average to below average SL. Then she left him for another man. Looks like sex was in there as a factor (not the only) somewhere.
On a related note, during discussions H has actually tried to deter the conversation in the following way: Oh, you aren't really talking about sex, you are talking about intimacy. The answer was yes and no. I was, in fact, talking about sex (not just intercourse) and I was talking about it as a form of intimacy. It was a long time ago and that whole approach sort of derailed me. It wouldn't now.
Maybe it is time to bring up the scheduel thing again.
In a simmilar way I was thinking about spontaneous large family (mom, dad, aunts, uncles, kids etc) Thanksgiving dinners, where the rules were come anytime the mood strikes you and eat what you want and the amount you want. Not my picture of a good time for all.
My idea is everybody bring something and agree on a list of of activities ( arrival time, greetings, snacks, dinner, deserts/drinks, visiting time, games/movies/photo albums/walks, and departure times.
This model works for family dinners why can't something like it work for something simpler but maybe more important and more intimate.
Scheduling sex may help to a degree, but I have to think that for most HD spouses, over the long haul this would suck. That would be like telling the LD spouse that ALL communication will now be "scheduled", it will only happen 30 minutes prior to each "scheduled" sex session. I doubt to many LD spouses would find that "fulfilling".
As for the chemical things that happen early on, the degree to which this happens is different depending upon the person. You are talking about the infactuation stage. The problem is that many HD people spend their entire lives VERY close to the infactuation stage. So not EVERYONE hsa their desire plummet off the face of the earth, in fact the HD women on here prove that for many, this does not happen.
And another problem I see with scheduled sex, it does not address what happens OUTSIDE the bedroom. This issue is FAR larger then just the sex, its all about ATTITUDE. What about Flirting, Playfulness, Kissing, Cuddling, touching, sexiness. Being LD includes ALL of these issues, it is something that must be addressed 24/7, not once a week on scheduled sex day. In effect, being HD or LD controls almost everything about a persons personality and thus permeates every interaction between a man and wife. I might even suggest that being LD can mean even BIGGER issues OUTSIDE the bedroom then inside.
Sometimes I find your posts irritating. This started out being one of those times. You remind me of a Moebius Strip - constantly circling 'round and 'round.
But, I stopped and realized that you must feel so deep into rejection, hurt, and despair that circling might be the only thing keeping you going. My heart goes out to you, it truly does. I also realize that of all the posters on this forum, you are the one I feel like I know the least about.
Do you find it hard to reveal yourself in a fuller fashion? What sort of conversations do you have with your wife? Do you ever have any personal interactions/conversations with her?
Scheduled sex is a tool. I said that. It isn't *the* goal, it is a way of at least pointing the two of you *toward* the goal.
I don't know how to make myself any clearer to you than I have in the past.
I once avoided NOP's touch, kisses and carresses. I don't recall flirting with him, since my standard operating mode was to avoid him as much as humanly possible while living in the same dwelling.
My sexual drive HAS NOT CHANGED.
But.
I flirt with NOP. I kiss him, caress him, grab his crotch, nuzzle his neck, touch him when I walk by, grab hugs, reach for his hand, kiss-lick-suck his penis, make love in various positions, playfully slap his naked butt when he's coming out of the shower. Last night I walked down the hall wiggling my a$$ at him and laughing about "presenting" to him like baboons do in nature. And I enjoy all of the above.
If *I* can change, *your wife* can too - and her sex drive doesn't have to return to its former glory days.
But you have to *start* somewhere.
Will scheduled sex automatically get you all of the above?
No.
But turning 'round and 'round without pushing for *something* will never get you any of the above.
Please talk to us, share what happens in your day with your wife. Don't just wander off without responding only to pop up later in some other thread repeating the same complaints. Share yourself as well as the complaints!
CeMar, I don't happen to think that LDs have bigger issues outside the bedroom. I think it is the other way around. Remember they are not agonising about this stuff every second of the day. They are getting on with their everyday lives. You and me and the other HDs are the ones that have the issues outside the bedroom. Wishing LD would hug/kiss/flirt/touch us and not push us away when we try those things. LD is not endlessly dwelling on the frustrations and disappointments like we are. SD
That would be like telling the LD spouse that ALL communication will now be "scheduled", it will only happen 30 minutes prior to each "scheduled" sex session. I doubt to many LD spouses would find that "fulfilling".
Gosh this LD would be okay with that. If it will be true communication. Let see I have had sex 12 times with my H this month so he owes me 360 minutes of real communication.
To me that is a better trade off then that I have had sex 12 times this month with maybe 10 minutes of fufilling communications. Gosh if we could work this out I would have sex 30 times a month and be allowed 900 minutes of fufilling/true communication. I think that would put me in happy camper land. And in a very fufilled marriage.
Point is CeMar stop acting like the HD is the only one doing without something that matters to them. Most LD people are also doing without something in there marriage that matters.
Lack of sex is not always the problem sometimes it is a symptom.
Mrs Nop is a true example of a LD person who can come out of there comfort zone and meet there H needs. Purely out of love and a appreciation for the fact Mr Nop takes the time to meet her needs. And she does not seem to sit around with a tally sheet on who is doing more for the other.
I understand that you are frustrated with this aspect of your marriage. But darn do you talk to your wife at all. Maybe even trying the sceduled sex if she consents will help you relieve some of the stress of this issue to allow you time to think and work on other issues that right now you may be blind sighted to.
Scheduled sex is not the cure all but it can at least be viewed as a pain killer. And you never no one day you can be having sex and it never cross your mind that today was not scheduled just felt like doing it. Happened for me at least 4 times this month and I am the LD which started this with a scheduled amount of times per month.
