A few of you out there may vaguely remember me, my previous thread is over a year old now. Went for Gold got the Bronze It seems like H and I have been backsliding pretty badly and getting ourselves back into a bad place again.
To summarise me 40, H 38 married 14 years, DS 6, DD 4 Bomb dropped in April 2003, OW involved, H moved out. Managed to find this site within a couple of weeks of split so DB'd like crazy and got him to recommit and move back in by summer 2003.
Short honeymoon period when everything was great. This started to slowly peter out. March 2004 my mother was diagnosed with secondaries from the kidney tumour they had removed 2 years previously. I was very focused on her and little time for H. H supportive but not close. When H offered his support I thanked him but was thinking (oh yeah?) - bad DB mistake I think.
Nov 2004 mum died. The day after the funeral had a big row with H where he -not in so many words - made clear he had cut me enough slack and putting his needs on back burner was no longer an option. This was a carbon-copy of his behaviour within days of our son being born My reaction was pretty much the same too which was to lose respect for him, to realise he is just a child who cannot be happy unless he feels that he is the centre of my universe.
Since then we have been functioning on auto-pilot. I have had to deal with the grief of losing my mum on top of the grief of knowing I am in a bad M and can't see how it will ever get better. I have spent a lot of the past year unpacking my childhood and recognising many of the things which led me to be where I am today and what it was about my upbringing that has meant I accepted a relationship which can never be truly intimate. I guess that's what losing your mum can do - give you the space to see the wood for the trees in your relationship with her. It has been a hard road and I have travelled it alone.
Two months ago I started back at work, from having been largely a stay-at-home-mum apart from bits and pieces of freelance work. I think I have been managing pretty well to keep up with the domestic side of things as well as working 8.30-2.30 5 days a week. H seemed pretty cheerful about it at the beginning – he has been constantly bemoaning how stressful it is to be sole breadwinner and we have had many arguments over whether I have been doing a good enough job in the home! He has not pitched in much since I started working – a minor nod in that direction but nothing significant. The other week I managed to screw up the grocery order on the internet so we only received about half the stuff we needed. I did not get any chance to pop into a grocery store between the order arriving on Tuesday and the end of the week. So that Friday evening there was not much food in the house. However we normally eat a take-out on a Friday evening so I wasn’t too concerned. I went out that evening but was due back by 9pm, H put the kids to bed and we phoned for the delivery of Chinese food. As we were beginning to eat I was chatting about work and saying how much I was enjoying things and felt pleased that I felt like I was doing a good job. H’s response was a very sarcastic I’m happy for you which then led into: but that doesn’t mean you can neglect your other duties. I was gobsmacked. He then started on about the lack of food in the house and how he had come home starving but there was nothing to eat. I refused to engage in this argument – just said well there’s food here now so lets eat. I was so mad though, he is not a child, if he was hungry he could have made a sandwich or a slice of toast or something. It wasn’t like there was literally NO FOOD just nothing that tickled his fancy. A little after we had finished eating I tried to talk to him about it and asked him to apologise, which he refused to do.
The following week was like a hangover from that almost-argument which meant there was very little communication between the two of us so eventually the damn had to burst which it did last Thursday.
Again he was picking me up on domestic stuff, like not making sure he has enough clean shirts for the following week. Now that might seem an easy enough thing to do, but he never needs the same clothes two weeks in a row, sometimes he is out seeing clients all week and has to wear shirts and ties and other times he is office based and can wear jeans and sweat-tops. He never communicates about what his needs are going to be so I have no idea and just plow my way through the laundry in whatever order. He feels unloved because he sees me ignoring his needs for shirts as a sign I don’t love him, so he becomes grumpy and distant.
Now before anybody suggests I read 5LL yes I have read it and yes acts of service are one of his love languages. We both read it just after the reconciliation, my LL is quality time. At first he made the effort and came to a salsa dancing class with me once a week as well as making time to just hang together. But he was making it obvious it was such an effort for him that pretty soon I just let him off I guess after that the acts of service became more of a chore for me.
Anyway the culmination of this row which escalated further and further was that I finally came out and said what I thought of his behaviour after DS was born and how difficult I found it to respect someone who could not stop thinking about their own needs for more than a couple of days. Someone who did not have the maturity to allow me any more than 48 hours to recover from childbirth and bond with my son before flipping out over the lack of attention coming his way. He made some reply which had nothing to do with what I had just said. Then later he was conciliatory – still without referencing what I had said. Over the weekend he has been friendly, hanging out with kids and I instead of disappearing into his den to play on the computer so maybe something did sink in. On Sunday he cooked dinner and it was good, he said something like –you’ll have to keep me on just for this. I had not said anything about not keeping him on. I just smiled and said I guess so.
So it looks like there is still something there, looks like we could somehow make a go of things but I tried very hard before and I’m not sure I have the energy to be trying again. I don’t want to do it just for the sake of the kids. There has to be more than that.
Last year I felt I only had a bronze medal, now I feel like I’m not even a contender
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
have you re-read this particular post of yours? Things often look a bit different when you put them all together.
I'm wondering if you can re look at this post and see how things have gotten to this point.
I'm in no way saying "it's all your fault" but if you can see the role you played in getting to this point perhaps it can give you the strength you need to give it another go...
I don't want to cut you up...I'd rather you take a second look at this your post and see if you can find the things I'd point out where you could have either done or looked at things differently.
We can't always get them to behave the way we want but it is true that sometimes we help them behave in ways we DON'T want by the way we ourselves behave.
Well thanks LL for making me step back a little. I know I sound a bit whiny on this post, however I was just trying to stop it flowing into a major essay and just wanted to cut to the chase - i.e. why am I back here.
Thought I would just jot down a day in the life of Haphazard so you get a feel of where I am coming from.
6.45 Alarm goes off – ugh! 6.46 Jump out of bed, shower dress etc 7.0 Start waking kids up – this will take at least 20 mins of continuous tussling to get them awake enough to dress them (they go to bed at 8pm but they never want to settle down and just sleep) 7.45 Leave for breakfast club (the school do this for us working mums!), all of us shout our goodbyes to H who is still sleeping. 8.10 Jump on train to work 9.10 Arrive at work 9.11 Usual busy day dealing with loads of calls, I work in a software house and I am development manager need to deal with quotes and specifications, making sure stuff gets done to deadlines etc. 14.30 Leave work 15.30 Arrive at school to pick up kids. Chat to other mums in school yard. Make sure kids have not forgotten anything and we pile into the car 15.50 Arrive home (sometimes later if we have an errand) 15.51 Give kids snacks, go and change, pick up anything lying around from the morning 16.30 Start thinking about dinner 16.31 Kids wanting attention, games, stories, homework whatever 17.30 Dinner on table, eat dinner. DS will eat his fine usually with a little encouragement about veggies etc. DD is another story and usually takes about half an hour convincing her to eat a portion half that of DS. She is up and down from the table continually. 18:00 Clear up dinner things, load dishwasher etc 18.30 Get kids in bath 18.31 Sit down for 20 mins to watch news and have cup of tea 18.50 Get kids out of bath 18.51 Let kids watch some TV for a while in their PJs 19.20 Kids brush teeth and choose a story 19.21 Read stories 19.45 Bed – this may still take a little while with kids up and down for stuff or telling me a little about their day 20.0 Phew, finish up cleaning kitchen from dinner 20.30 Take laundry from dryer and fold, get another batch of laundry sorted and put on to wash 21:00 Sort out what to wear next day for me and kids, and other things they may need for school 21.30 Rest of evening to relax, come and chat to you guys, chat on phone, watch TV or whatever 22.30 Bed
That’s pretty much an average day. OK two nights a week H will come home around 18.45 and take over with putting the kids to bed so I can go to the gym.
Sometimes we eat together, after kids are in bed, but not often. He doesn’t usually want whatever I suggest and just says he will get something himself. That is usually around 10pm which is way late for me to eat.
OK what I obviously haven’t filled in is average day in the life of H as I don’t know the full details. I do know he leaves for work at about 8 each day (having got up around 7.50 – LOL) that he generally has a pretty hectic day at work and finds it difficult to wind down. If it is not his night to put kids to bed he will either stay at work a little longer then go out drinking with work buddies or he will come home and retreat to his little office room where he will drink beer and fiddle around on the computer.
It is not just about what our average days are like it is about what areas each of us covers. I cook, clean, tidy up, shop, do laundry I make small repairs around the house Any concerns of the children – such as homework, clubs, necessary new clothing etc We are trying to get parts of the house remodeled and it is my concern to organize builders I make sure our bills get paid on time I make sure the car gets serviced, insured, cleaned whatever I do the garden I do our finances, talk to accountant, check bank statements etc
The list goes on. It might sound like I am really controlling that I do all this. If I didn’t do it I promise you it would not get done.
BTW it also sound like I don’t have a life but I do. For one thing I am loving my new job, I don’t just go to the gym I also go to a singing class. I am friendly with quite a few mums at school and we get together for a girls night out every couple of months. I have good friends who I socialize with by taking kids over for tea at their house and vice versa. When my dad comes to visit we usually go out somewhere interesting.
Does anyone else cover this amount? H claims he does his part just by earning the lion’s share of the income (OK – all of it up until 2 months ago). He would work anyway if he were single and he would have to take care of laundry, car, finances, household repairs etc on his own.
The thing is none of this would really worry me if we had a happy M. I have been doing it for years and until the R started to go wrong it never really bothered me that much. I was happy doing stuff for both of us and to be honest he did do more when he was in a happier frame of mind.
I don't get any appreciation for it, just told where I'm going wrong if something gets missed
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
well a day in the life of Fran seems as hectic as a day in the life of LL. Did notice though that there was no mention of where or what h was doing while you were doing all this stuff...did he come home at all between your waking up and your going to sleep?
as far as does anyone else cover all this kinda stuff? well with the exception of paying the bills, mowing the lawn and taking the trash to the dump...I do it all. Occasionally h will chip in but it's occassionaly. Like yours my h feels that his contribution is his paycheck and the lawn. Funny thing is I recall when we were first married I was working full time and there was no lawn (we lived in a townhouse) and I still did all the domestic chores.
What I was intending for you to do was look back at your first post on this thread and see what you could have done differently..in other words how you contributed to bringing the r to the place it is at now. No one's going to throw you a life preserver so you've either got to learn to swim in the ocean of your marriage or get out of the water.
Yes I did notice LL. That post was written on a day when we did not see H from waking up in the morning til going to bed at night. At least two sometimes three nights a week he will stay out drinking with his buddies and not come home until after I am in bed. On the nights he comes home it is to give me a break so I can go to the gym or singing, I get back in at 9-9.30pm. He is usually playing on the computer when I get back. I check in with him, give him a kiss, ruffle his hair, offer to make him a meal/snack. He will usually refuse. I have been posting on SSM board too, because that area is just not happening either. But how could it when it just seems like H is and maybe I am in avoidance mode with each other.
I know I have a lot to do LL, I know noone will throw me a lifeline, and I know if there was more for him here he would not stay out. I just need help with WHAT more I can do. I do greet him happily and kiss him when he comes home, I do try and keep up with all those AOS that he likes so much, not to mention the WOA. I have a feeling he is a very rigid person. Once he decides something is the case he does not like to change. I feel like he STILL views me as the person I was 3 years ago and reacts to me AS THOUGH I am still behaving that way, when I'm not I know I'm not. Here is a silly example. About a year ago our local council started a kerbside recycling scheme. So everyone has two bins outside the house, one for stuff you can recycle and one for the rest. We got a little recycling bin in the kitchen so we can put all the paper, plastic, aluminum, glass etc in there. Now H is as keen as anyone on saving the planet, but he STILL keeps putting things in the old trash That's how I feel like it is in our M, things have changed around here but he just seems to keep on the same groove.
I know, I know, still whining about what he is doing wrong. I have to look at what I can do. But like you LL I have been there done that and I need a really big new energy boost to get me to do it again
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Hi HH, you sound sorta stressed about all your responsibilities and on top of that your new carreer. You've made a big lifestyle change, maybe just give it time to adjust? I think most women will say we do the majority of stuff around the house, I don't know why we let that happen, must be that bad rib we got so long ago.
I understand your example of a change that isn't acknowledged, big or small it's still unnoticed. But, is it really unnoticed or is he testing YOU to see how you react to him not changing? Just a thought. I go thru the same types of things too. Try and take a few steps away and look at the big picture from a distance. Then choose one or two things that you think you can work on and change to make a plus.
It's okay to whine here, but the cheese and crackers aren't so great!
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
I wrote a reply to you guys a few days ago but didn't post it 'cos it sounded too whiny.
I'm not really stressed about my responsibiliies. It's fine I like my new job and it's better than being SAHM which I enjoyed but found difficult - not my cup of tea as we English say. No - it's H's reaction (or non-reaction) to it that I can't get on with. He just seems to be acting the same way he was when I was home all day. Like you're at home all day so you should have time to cater to my needs. No matter that he is unclear on his needs that they change day to day that he never lets me know if I do a good job with his needs only if I don't etc etc. And now I am working too I am not allowed to forget his needs (e.g. ironed shirts etc).
what if it's not a matter of having the energy to DO anything else or again...what if it's simply a matter of looking at things differently?
Yes I guess so, things have been a little better just lately. Mainly because of the big row we had where I told him just what I thought of him and how much he had let me down by acting like a big baby after our kids were born. He didn't take it well at first but his attitude has been better since - like he did listen and accept it.
so bit by bit.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
My reaction was pretty much the same too which was to lose respect for him, to realise he is just a child who cannot be happy unless he feels that he is the centre of my universe.