Well I thought about leaving it locked so no one could take any more shots, but what fun would that be? besides my window panes are slightly smudged still.
Wow thats a lot of red, apparently your bleeding all over the thread now, glad it locked and I had to start another.....
I let x go alone to another city to help OM find an apt. every weekend. It also didn't help that I trusted to a fault. She began violating my boundaries and I didn't put a stop to it for fear of looking insecure and losing her. I became weakened and my subsequent tight leash paranoia inability-to-process-A reactions exacerbated this weakness
Well you get it, Fear led you to doing the exact wrong thing. Becoming major wussyman.
the question is do you want to do anything about it, and can you control yourself, fear, insecurity, leaning psycologically,(if I put an [H] in that word one more time I am going to rip my finger off....need to go type psych 1000 times....) and with body language,(no leaning) as-if OM, enforce boundaries without hesitation,showing displeasure and disapproval without emotion i.e. anger, and be cocky sincere, and humorously macho. Lots of humorously macho....
Those are the questions. I gave it whirl, messed it up (maybe) with road to intimacy potholes, maybe found out there wasnt true remorse.... Is your WAS 2 times with same OM also? I look (almost) at everyone of my failures as really a opportunity to see how much x cared for me. I know how I overlooked her 'failures'.
When you get around her, phone or in person those chemicals make it hard to lean back. If you are doing this out of neediness you wont be able to. Think about what your reasons are for it. Your internal reasons will show thru every time. If it is to assuage your ego, forget it, let her go. If it is to test out your new found knowledge, forget it let her go. If you think you cant find another, forget it let her go.
I loved my x, I am gonna stand here like the crag I am and find out if she loves me. I am waiting to see desire, remorse, and change. Right up untill I get my POP. If I have value it will overcome female initiation reluctance. If I dont.... I dont. I will do the 'right thing', but I wont be addicted to my struggle.
making my Stigmata wounds open up and bleed for real this time not useful if you want to go get her. In sales there is a idea called Speed of Implementation. The most succesful people are able to take a new idea and immediately put it too use. Most people want to mull and chew and tentatively put a toe in the water. Sticking a knife in the wound to explore the pain is not helpful.
GAL. NOW. GAL is highly important to attraction anyways. Flex some figurative muscle and make some explorations out of your Intro. flex some real muscle too.
(nice tie-in eh?) yes but if you point it out I cant.... oh yeah I am not sure how I feel about your dissembling of my comments.... I like it when you further detail and expound for the benefit of the men, I get busy/lazy and dont always give reasons, but on my subtle pokes....mmm not so sure. Ibiza is in Spain so I didnt miss the latinos, and my x was Pacific Islander, (talk about a passionate FOO ... whew) often mistaken for Asian, I used to call her my 'Ornamental' when she got dressed up, LMAO..... you missed the primary poke anyways, maybe on purpose, Good. I was pretty pleased with that one it encompassed about 4 references. Thanks for defending my depth, though it assumes I care what women think.......stop trying to wussify me.
BF, Well, the girls here aren't all 6' and blonde but they do have quite a few more of them than in other countries. The scenery is better than in other places I've been.
You've made it quite clear that you've taken a stand. The line was drawn in the dirt and she crossed it. Actually, that's the way I was raised as well. I feel that you're right and wrong about forgiveness. You can forgive without seeing one iota of remorse because forgiveness is an internal judgement call. No one needs to "crawl to the cross" as they say here in Sweden for you to forgive. It does make you feel better if they do, but that's not the point of forgiveness. It doesn't mean you forget. "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."
I feel that what you've made a decision about is based on Trust. She lost your trust. You forgive her, but she may never get that back and you've decided that if she doesn't show remorse and actively work on it then you have little trust in that she feels the full impact of her decision and can change the character flaw that Stigmata pointed out. That is not a bad thing, just your own internal requirement.
I'm wondering what your goal on this BB is. Most of the people here are trying to repair broken relationships. Are you here to move on? I think you've made it clear that you aren't interested in a future relationship with the woman who was your wife but I might have misread (my english is getting worse for every year I'm away from mainstream english speaking society).
So, what are you going to do now? It sounds as if you have an interesting life and don't have any problems in obtaining female companionship so what are you looking for? If you could find the perfect female companion what would her character traits be?
I find your machismo refreshing in today's PC world. I feel that men in general have been quite heavily pressured into gender roles that don't really suit them (and that women don't find attractive) and when someone as clear spoken as you comes along it does stir up the pot. Keep it up!
My eyes must be blurry today. I see in your last post that you are actually waiting on her to make a more active decision. Now you know why I don't post often, it's so easy to get it wrong.
Never been to the West Coast of the US (if that's where you're at). I hear that all the women there are blonde haired, well tanned, and top heavy. See, I have my preconcieved ideas too! I can almost hear the theme to "Baywatch" when thinking about it (always turned the sound off after that).
Always wanted to take up flying, but alternately diving is a good second choice. Here in Sweden the waters cold, averages around 12c, but they do it anyway. Just not a lot to see due to the murk and the fact that even the fish don't like it down there! Most of the people I know who have certificates take them on holiday in Egypt or Spain.
Blackfoot, Are you really that surprised that she went back to OM after your brief reconciliation?
I'm not.
Being a woman, I can tell you that I would not continue an affair unless I was in love with the person. As hurtful as it is to ponder, she is most likely in love with the turd. Or was.
She is also in love with you, for sure.
This is all well documented, how people fall in love with the OP and flip flop back and forth until they pull their heads out. I guess I'm curious why you think it should be different in your case and why that is a legitimate reason for throwing in the towel? You stated that, at this point, you need to see some active moves from her that indicate that she wants to reconcile. She's done that, hasn't she?
I think what you really mean is that you need to see some active proof that she's done with OM. I don't blame you for this and admire you for setting this firm boundary. Does she know--clearly--what your boundary is? Have you ever told her? And by that I mean, "In order for reconciliation to take place, you will have to sever all ties with OM." Just curious. I'm sure you've done this but she's floundering all over the place so I thought I would ask.
As a chick, though, I will tell you this (for future reference) that women are hyper sensitive to rejection. She was aware of the rejection of your EA, even if she never knew about it. Her cries for wanting to be back with her family, and pleas for more time with you, speak volumes. Ditto with the OM living in your house and then your subsequent rejection of her when you noticed her attachment forming. (which you now seem to think she should dissolve like Drano on a sink clog--doesn't work that way)
I have a question for you, Blackfoot:
WHY did you allow OM into your home? Have you asked yourself this question?
The easy answer is that you felt your R was rock solid, but I am assuming that this happened after your EA and her whines about being lonely, etc.
Could it be that YOU were testing HER?
I don't understand this and never have. I have read your answers to this question but they don't seem satisfactory to me. Here you've got this pin-sharp guy who shrugs his shoulders and says, Me don't know...seemed like a good idea at the time. Doesn't compute!
I'm not trying to be harsh, hope it doesn't come off that way. If this were in person, my voice would be soft and I'd have my arm around your shoulder.
Believe me, if your W should ever visit this forum, she will quickly learn the definition of harsh.
In looking over your situation, it seems so tragic but so common. Two people who are an electric match for each other just begin to drift and next thing you know that electricity spark a fire--somewhere else. I wish I knew why this happens and how to identify it from the very first signs of driftage; it would save a lot of people a lot of pain.
the tendancy I was talking about was.... sheesh would one of the women pipe up and smack LFL around? uhh. to keep trying to get a man to stop 'acting' manly, and then she loses attraction when he does.
Karen? help me out here.
GREAT!! you did it . I just acted needy and asked a woman for help. Congrats! you broke my macho exterior. I didnt even last a couple days on a BB with you. See how strong your H is? He kept up with you for years....
That was a sad display BF. To attempt to have the women turn against me and/or fight your battles for you. Tsk Tsk. NOT very manly and certainly not gentlemanly. I know, I know, you were kidding, blah blah. Still, I'm cracking you like egg on Easter. (just made that up ) Is my H strong for keeping up with me? Time will tell I guess. He never had that macho exterior that is crumbling around you as we speak. Doesn't really need it I guess. He's has other strengths that keep us plugging away. Anyways, you need to remember BF, just like in the game of Survivor, I will always Out Wit, Out Play, and Out Last you so don't try and spin my words around on me or worse yet, ask others for assistance. Speak your own mind and I will do the same. I like you despite how much you piss me off. Go figure. And yes, I still believe you are a player and thus, will treat you accordingly. Prove my wrong if you dare. And running away from posting the women on this board does not prove anything. In fact, it does the opposite. It tells me you are so uncomfortable with having the "player" in you leak out that you will avoid instead of keeping a lid on it. You even said straight out that you were not going to tone down the macho stuff. Ok. Suit yourself. I thought we were friends BF. Unless you believe, as Lil stated once, that men and women can't be friends. Hmmm. I haven't figured that out myself but I'm trying. I can see how maybe your H seemed aloof, to you. I know you tried very hard before, and after he WA. OK? WA in itself is a killer emotionally. I have had your heaping helping and another (affair) on top. Thought we weren't going to compare war stories. Let us help, stubborn, willful, prideful girl. I wish I had this place before/ during reconcil. M/F dynamics are different. The same rules do not apply to us. You are all helping in your own way. Some give it to me straight, others validate my feelings. There is room for both. Not sure what you meant by same rules do not apply. Cyptic BF on the loose. Yes you should fight for it. Does that not apply to her? You ex has to come to that decision on her own, as painful as that is. Although others are right, especially HP's comments. What do you need to see from her?!??!!! Your ex has been trying according to my book. Look who's calling me stubborn. I dont even know if I like a girl before 10 dates,(though I do know if I dont like her before then....) Say wha??? Those poor women. 10 dates is a lot for man to then say to me "oh, by the way, I'm not sure if I like you yet." I know you don't come out and say that but it's the player mentality. Parallel dating, hee hee. I would be happy to have an arranged marriage LOL. That's a good one, considering your previous lists of "musts" on a woman. Darn where is that thing when I need it!? Nice try though. Ok that's enough "thread litter" for now.
Just wanted to say that you and Stig are very welcome to join us on our excursion in Belize. I can't say I can finagle getting you credit for taking the class, though. Anyway, I can give you an itenerary for our trip if you want. Perhaps we could cross paths at least.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I have loosely kept up with your situation. Regardless, I thought that it was time that I put in my (what will become unpopular) two cents worth.
Here is what I think you should do.
1) Figure out why you played relational leap frog with your wife and fix it in YOU.
2) Learn how to be a real macho man without the "layer of player" suit.
3) Dump your wayward spouse completely, the only communication being that required to legally sever the relationship.
4) Stay out of anything but the most causal of relationships for the next year so that you don't damage someone else while you heal.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Our ideas of forgiveness are the same. I originally started lurking on this board after second seperation. GAL then came back after vehicle accident slowed it up. Thought I might be able to help some of the guys here with communication and attraction. Made some cyber friends. Try to avoid going out and dating as much as possible. Going out seems to lead to dating....
If you could find the perfect female companion what would her character traits be?
noone is perfect, you work with who you love. That is not an answer --because I had it and it didnt work out so I dont know anymore. It was much more then that silly list I put up before that LFL refers too...
I'm wondering what your goal on this BB is. Most of the people here are trying to repair broken relationships. Are you here to move on?
I am here to figure out why I did what I did. I want to fix me. I think she was pretty amazing, and didnt deserve what happened. I often think she is better off without me, untill I think where she will end up. It was not conscious, but I was aware if that makes any sense.
I hear that all the women there are blonde haired, well tanned, and top heavy.
Yeah well it just depends where you hang out. Cities are pretty segregated. If you have a physical, racial flavor, which I dont, just go to such and such city and you will be surrounded by that. the top heavy tan blondes are expensive to upkeep. I will not discuss my income when dating, even with my x she had no idea, I guess she thought we did the things we did via magic, OM does more so then her....anyways, this doesnt enable you to hold said blondes attention. My attraction doesnt work that way anymore anyways....
Sweden makes THE best diving air delivery systems, Poisedon they are called. Great dry suits (viking) for contaminated conditions too. yea the water in alaska was 5, 6c pretty regularly. It gets colder in Sweden the Poseiden reps talk about skating inverted underwatere on the ice. I recommend Egypt and the Red Sea for diving....
I see in your last post that you are actually waiting on her to make a more active decision I know R dynamics better then that. If I dont do it, it wont happen. I could be suprised but doubtful. Only 7 days till courtdate. Funnily enough, I think we both are in a better place to make it work this time around, if I could incline myself. I was pretty certain once it hit PA it would be over, knowing her.
) 
Anyway, I can give you an itenerary for our trip if you want. Perhaps we could cross paths at least.