Following my heart....

[DonH]

"(I know someone probably wants to jump down my throat about this -- "How is H supposed to know how you really feel if you don't tell him?")...."

Might I be that someone? Okay, then since you already know it, I don't have to say it. Plus that is a great first step to progress. The next time perhaps you will say something.

Since you called me out, I might also suggest that you make sure to thank H for his response to the repair and for putting in HBO. Spell it out in simple, plain English (so all of us bone head men can understand it) that you really appreciate that he didn't get upset or even make comments about how much the repair costs, and how much that means to you. Tell him the same about HBO if in fact that is the case. This is the only way to get him to do more of the same. And you do want more of the same right? He will be thrilled that you said something but more importantly, it will cement it into his brain and hopefully help him to continue doing more of the same. It really is important that you do this. In fact, if you do this, we'll take away the spanking for the other little thing.

[ValerieA]

"Might I be that someone?"

Now what would make you think that?



I know I need to say something about the sex, but it's hard. I worry that he's going to ask me if I ever liked it, and when I say "no, not really....I just did it for you", then he'll get upset and think that I don't enjoy him because of the things he likes.

We've had this kind of talk before...a long time ago...and when I told him I didn't like certain things, did that stop him? No.

I feel like I shouldn't have to remind him during the act when he does what he does; it totally ruins it for me. He should know already. How can he not understand, "H, I don't like that. Please don't."?

One time, we were flirting over the phone, and it was fun . I was enjoying talking with him, but then he started talking about some things he wanted to do with me, and when I said no, he asked why. So I told him. Then after a few moments he said, "Thanks for telling me what we're not going to do, Val. Thanks."



Anywaaaayyyy............

I did thank H when he told me to have the repairs done on the truck, and when he added HBO. I told him that I really appreciated that, but I didn't say I appreciated the fact that he didn't comment about how much extra money all of this was going to cost him. I think I'll do that after I get the truck done, and after I watch "Sopranos". I already know what he's spending on the truck, and I'm guessing the HBO package is going to be about another $20 - $30 a month. I know that's nothing, but I also know that's something to H.

Ummm....thank you, Don.....Ok, that kind of left a bad aftertaste .... LOL....You know I'm kidding, right? For anyone who doesn't know, Don and I didn't exactly start off so well . He's challenged me quite a bit , but I know his intentions are for the best .

Thanks for listening.

[ValerieA]

Had a positive convo with H yesterday. He called around 7pm to say hi to the boys and me. He told me about his day and said he was sorry that he couldn't call me back earlier. I told him no need to be sorry. I figured he was busy with work, so I understood.

Here's the GREAT thing....

H said, "I also wanted to thank you for your message....You have no idea what it meant for me to hear you say what you said....It was just so wonderful....I don't know. I guess it told me that you're....ummm....I can't think of the word..."

"Willing to compromise?" I asked him.

H said, "Yeah! Exactly....You're reasonable....It really meant alot to me. Thanks, Val. I really do appreciate that."

H is supposed to see if B can come over this evening to work on the toilet. MIL will most likely have the kids (she usually does for a few hours every Wednesday). So while they're hopefully here doing that, I'll be out enjoying some very much needed yet inexpensive pampering !

Ok, I AM stubborn . I know it...I couldn't see it back then, but I can see it now especially after hearing H say that I'm reasonable. That told me that he felt I wasn't before. Sometimes I wouldn't budge until I got my way, but most of the time, I'd go with what H wanted but I'd "pout" about it. I think I let him know with my mood that I wasn't happy. I wouldn't stomp around the house, throw a tantrum, or anything else like that...I'm not a kid ...but I think I somehow "controlled" the situation with my mood.

Hmmm....yes, this is good. If I can see these things, it's definitely progress.



Thanks for listening.

[ValerieA]

Ok...I'm not too happy right now .

In the VM I left for H the other day (the one where I compromised about B coming over to work on the bathroom), I asked in PLAIN, SIMPLE English, "Please let me know when you plan on coming over here with B so that I can make arrangements to be elsewhere. B can come to the house, but I'm letting you know that I don't want to be here when he is."

When H returned my call, he said he understood completely and he would call me before having him over.

Guess what?

NO phone call....no prior notice....whatsoever.

They just showed up about 15 minutes ago.

Just seeing his friend B...... .

I am really upset. I asked H to let me know ahead of time, he said he would, but NO.

WHY? Why not do what I asked? Why not stick to the agreement?

H could tell I was bothered by this, looked at me and said, "Don't. I can tell you're upset, but don't you even say a f***ing word to me. I want to get this done, and I want to do it now."

How could he tell? Because I was quiet. I wasn't necessarily giving him the silent treatment, but I just haven't been very talkative since they walked through my door unannounced.

(sigh)

Thanks for listening.

[Bowtech]

Valerie,

Even though you are going through ----, this is what we are here for. Feel free to look at my sitch under pleasehelp,32006. I have learned the hard way but god will work it out.

A Standers Affirmation

I AM STANDING FOR THE HEALING OF MY MARRIAGE!... I will not give up, give in, give out or give over 'til that healing takes place. I made a vow, I said the words, I gave the pledge, I gave a ring, I took a ring, I gave myself, I trusted GOD, and said the words, and meant the words... in sickness and in health, in sorrow and in joy, for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in good times and in bad...so I am standing NOW, and will not sit down, let down, slow down, calm down, fall down, look down or be down 'til the breakdown is torn down!


I refuse to put my eyes on outward circumstances, or listen to prophets of doom, or buy into what is trendy, worldly, popular, convenient, easy, quick, thrifty, or advantageous... nor will I settle for a cheap imitation of God's real thing, nor will I seek to lower God's standard, twist God's will, rewrite God's word, violate God's covenant, or accept what God hates, namely divorce!


In a world of filth, I will stay pure; surrounded by lies I will speak the truth; where hopelessness abounds, I will hope in God: where revenge is easier, I will bless instead of curse; and where the odds are stacked against me, I will trust in God's faithfulness.


I am a STANDER, and I will not acquiesce, compromise, quarrel or quit.. I have made the choice, set my face, entered the race, believed the Word, and trusted God for all the outcome.


I will allow neither the reaction of my spouse, nor the urging of my friends, nor the advice of my loved ones, nor economic hardship, nor the prompting of the devil to make me let up, slow up, blow up, or give up 'til my marriage is healed.

[ValerieA]

Thank you so much, Bowtech. I really do appreciate your understanding and support.

I just really need to vent right now.

H came up to me a few moments ago and asked what my problem was. I told him that I'm not happy with how this turned out. I thought he understood me, told me he did.

H wanted to talk, I didn't. I asked him to please leave me alone. This is me...this is what I need to cool down...and this is a problem for H. He CANNOT do this. He will push and push the issue at hand because he feels it needs to be discussed and resolved at THIS very moment. NOW. NOT LATER.

I need time to chill out. I have always been this way, probably always will be. It gives me time to think about what's going on and what I can do to make it better for BOTH of us.

But H NEVER gives me that time....that time to just let me be.

I didn't want to talk, he did. Finally out of frustration I told him that I felt he wasn't really listening to me. The one thing I asked him to do...notify me before B came here....he didn't do it. He said he would, but he didn't. Just like every other time he ever told me he would do something and never did. There have been so many times where I compromised, but H couldn't stick to the plan. Feels like the same old, same old.

Anyway, he got angry just now and flung one of the kids' video cassette cases across the living room....says I'm giving him BS, doesn't have the energy to argue with me (but seems to have the energy to get physical...what else is new?), and says "let's just sell the house and split everything!" And I believe I even heard him murmur "ungrateful b****" under his breath.

H says he loves me and wants to work it all out and be a family, but the very second he gets upset, he wants to be done with this BS.

He just left. H and B went to get a different toilet. I feel I should just leave so I don't have to look at either one of them when they return, but I'm not feeling well. I woke up with a sinus headache this morning, and it's almost S1's naptime, too.

I'm not giving up. I've been at this for too long, and I know it's just another big bump in the road, but I also won't take this crap forever either.

Just venting.....thanks again.

[always_14]

Hey Val....I'm sorry about the afternoon. I'm ashamed to say, I can relate to your H about the talking about things NOW, on MY time b/c I have this bizarre need to talk now even though it makes you uncomfortable or is a horrible time for you to talk.

I had to think about this. Why did I do it? What did I assume? I'm normally a very conflic-avoiding person and pretty respectful, so why this with H? Well, I had very little time with H during our M (his job), when I did have time, he was mostly moody, tired, and not in the frame to engage with me. So my frustrations took a back seat. I got sick of this. I ASSumed that he didn't care to make me priority. So, when I wanted to vent to H, I didn't care if it wasn't a good time, or if he needed time, I was sick of waiting....so I became irrational about it. His wanting space to me was his not caring. bad, bad bad.

Now, I believe that he cares. He reaches out to talk more, is more willing to do so, but we agree on when a good time is. I try to promise not to explode when we do talk. It's just a new cycle for us.

What are H's fears of needing to talk NOW?

Also, is there a way that you agree with him on ground rules of arguing? No name calling, no throwing things or anything physical? I'm sure you've done this, but he has to realize what a turn off that is and how it UNDOES 1 million good deeds.

[ValerieA]

Hello there, Always. Thank you for dropping in!

H's fears of needing to talk now?.....Hmmm....If I had to take a guess, then I'd have to say maybe he's afraid that if we, or HE, doesn't fix the problem now, then maybe he feels I will remain upset with him for the rest of the hour, day, whatever.

I have to be honest. If I'm right, I can see why he'd feel that way. I'm stubborn at times . I used to be much more so before really taking a good, hard look at myself. I'd hold onto grudges all day long. I wouldn't back down and give in. I would control the situation with my mood until H would say he was sorry...and he was always the first one to do it even if I knew I was wrong .

Like I said, I was VERY stubborn! I saw myself in my mother when she and I had a fallout several months ago....yikes ....She was wrong. I knew it, and I know she even knew it, but she would not back down and apologize for anything!

Anyway, I don't want to be like that anymore. When I need my space, I really need it, and I've always told H this, but he just can't seem to understand how important that is for me to have.

Back then, even when there were the FEW times that he did leave me alone, I would still pout about whatever we were in disagreement over. I wasn't able to understand that I should be using that time to look at the problem in myself...I would use that time pouting, thinking how wrong H was, and why can't he just agree to my way.

But now, I don't think like that anymore. I need an hour or two just to myself so I can calm down and THINK before I speak....think about what would make the sitch better....think about what I could do and what H could do so that we are both happy....compromise.

I can also now admit when I'm wrong when I've had my space...never was able to do that before .

So I don't know....maybe he pushes the talks to keep me from being upset....maybe H sees it as getting me to see his POV, his logic/reason, so then I should understand and have no excuse to be upset about anything. Perhaps this is some form of control for H.

I feel like he's forcing me to see that he is right, and I am wrong...when clearly in this last argument, he was at fault for not following through. He agreed to call beforehand but didn't. If he had just called, this whole thing could've been avoided. Yes, I would've been bothered by it, but at least I would've been prepared to see B walking through the door. It wouldn't have been so bad.

And I know in time that I'll get over the issue that I have with B. I know this....I can't be upset about it forever....but I just need time right now, and with H doing what he did, he's not giving it to me.

H did say he was sorry, but he also had to point out that he believed I was wrong for being upset. "Ok, I'm sorry, but you've got no reason to be mad. The toilet's getting done. I've been doing nothing but working my a** off, and this is the thanks I get. You're so f***ing unappreciative!" Then that's when he walked away and mumbled "ungrateful b****" .

What is the purpose of that? Am I supposed to accept that as an apology?

Why tell me you're sorry, but oh yeah....go ahead and make me feel like s**t in the process of doing so?! Go ahead and call me a name you know I can't stand just to make me even more upset.

Why can't he just say he's sorry and leave it at that? When I realize that I'm wrong, I apologize, too, but I don't add any verbal jabs to it. I don't say "I'm sorry, BUT YOU blah blah blah... ".

He makes me feel like I'm so wrong for being upset about anything. Like how dare I. He does this, he does that, so I should just be happy. He provides, he's taking care of me financially and makes sure things get done, so I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to feel otherwise.

If I do, then I'm unreasonable, unappreciative, ungrateful. I'm a b****.

I have told him I do not want to be talked to that way, I do not want to see anything else broken in this house...but you can see how well he listens.

Yes, H really needs to know that acting out the way he does really DOES undo 1 million good deeds.....He keeps a roof over our heads, food in our tummies, gas in our truck, clothes on our backs....

But the very instant he throws something, calls me one of his favorite names....whatever appreciation or love I have for him at that moment flies right out the window. I become upset with him, and I find myself getting very close to just not caring at all anymore.

Ok, it's really late. I need to get to bed.

Thanks for listening.

[DonH]

"If he had just called, this whole thing could've been avoided. Yes, I would've been bothered by it, but at least I would've been prepared to see B walking through the door. It wouldn't have been so bad."

I had a hunch. I'm glad that you actually validated it for me. My hunch was that you were really mad that H didn't do what you told him to/asked him to. You wanted him to tell you before he came over with this guy. You didn't get your way. He didn't listen to you. Now, by your own admission, it's not the fact that you had to see this guy, it's the fact that H didn't call first. You claim that had he called, you would have been prepared to see him. Would you have? Would it have made any difference? If it would have, then you should have prepared yourself in the first place. You should have been ready because I'll bet you already knew that seeing him was a possiblity. You can't control what H will do but you can control what you will do and how you will react.

You extended your hand and agreed to compromise, and look what H went and did. As his thank you to your compromise, he took more advantage of you and brought this guy over unanounced - even though you told him what the rules were. And you make the rules - right?

The thing is, you are right. You are right about what you are saying with H. You are right about what happened. And you certainly are right about H's response and name calling. No sarcasm here. I am very sincere in what I am saying. You really ARE RIGHT!

The question is, do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? Which is it - RIGHT or HAPPY? Sometimes you don't get both. If the only way to be happy is by being right well then...

So you are right Val. But is it worth it all? You can't control what H is going to do. You can only control what you do and your response to H. Sometimes no matter how hard we try, we still end up like our parents. Shades of your mom are still inside of you. The thing is, you see it and can change it. You can make it better.

Now, take a deep breath, wait several hours, think about it and then reply.

[pink]

Hi Val.

For what it is worth I agree with DonH,I have given up long ago expecting my H to behave as I want him to. I have just got on with my own life and watch him adjust himself to me without my asking or telling him. Do what makes YOU happy, do not expect him to help make you happy.

I am not sure what the history is of his friend. If what you are doing is not working have you tried doing a 180 about the friend? The more you try to push the friend away the more H will cling on to him. Guy's seem to live in fear of being told what to do and being controlled.

With regards to the sex thing, it is almost like he is trying to get as much as he can when he can has he doesn't know when he is going t get it again. I am sure it will settle down in time. I agree with you that you should never do anything that makes you feel uncomortable or anything that you are not 100% into but I do wonder if your insecurities about the relationship are making you hold back

Hope all is well, it is good to read such honest and open posts from you. You seem to have made heaps of progress. Long may it continue. - Pink xx

,"expectations are just planned resentments".