Unilateral Disarmement - 3

[JinBklyn]

Hi, Wendy,

Looks like you haven't posted in a while? I hope all is well for you. I caught up as best i could and it sounds like things are still slowly plugging along. Frustrating, isn't it? I know you feel like the pace is deadly. But think of where you were just a year ago. I think you've made wonderful progress in your sitch.

FWIW, I think scrutiny of each other's computers and the like is a good way to get your H to feel emasculated. Leave him his privacy, I say. This is of course from a snooper, and this may sound hypocritical, but I think that public "checking up" is a bad idea.

Are you still heaping on the WOA at your H's work with your son? Making him feel manly when he heads off to a conference? Supporting him as an "expert" at something?

I wonder if your H says he's OK with no affection but, like S., is starved for it. I know I thought S. didn't want it from me, only to find months and months later that he really does. It's tough, getting in there for a hug when you think your partner wants anything but. If you tried it, and he rejected you, it would only last a few minutes (the rejection, I mean). But if you tried it, and he responded, you may reap bigger rewards.

Just a disjointed thought at a late, late hour.

Jennifer

[Wendylon]

I can't believe it's been this long since I posted!! I wonder if anyone that I know is still around. I will need to have a look after I've written this. If I look first, I'll never write the update.

We are still in the repairing stage. I hope not to be discouraging to those of you that are impatient for quick fixes. On the other hand, I hope to be of some encouragement to those of you that can't imagine your spouse ever re-committing to the M and coming out of their A-fog.

H ended his A 2 years ago. The first year after H ended his A was difficult because H was very depressed and I didn't trust that he'd really given up on OW. (She lives in our neighbourhood and I see her in the street all the time so he must too.)

We've now been through the second year post-A. It's been much better. H is no longer depressed. He rates his general happiness 7/10 (and so do I). He's back to being involved with the kids--in fact more involved than he ever was with S7 who is autistic. H gets up early every morning and spends an hour with him before the bus picks him up.

All, however, is not back to normal. H doesn't touch me or use any affectionate language. He will kiss me on the cheek if one of us is going on a trip without the other but that is about it.

My goal for the third post-A year is to do my part to get our physical intimacy back on track. H has said that he fears that he would lose his autonomy if we resumed things on that front and that, while he knows we can function well like this, he doesn't trust that we can if we're also intimate. We haven't been physically intimate since Summer 2004, which was during his A.

My goal is for him to associate me more and more with good things until he actually wants a sexual relationship with me again. I'm still learning about his love languages after 16 years. I didn't make a big fuss about his birthday this year because we had a lot going on (consultant arriving for S7 from the States for a 5 day visit) and it's at a terrible time of year (Jan 2) to really get into a birthday. I thought he'd be fine about it. As it turned out he was very upset that I and the children hadn't done very much. I was able to get something together by the following morning (cake and singing and cards) and I think he felt much better. I was amazed that that was one of his LL. I never would have guessed. I do know, however, that OW used to write him 'meaningful' cards saying things like, "'The thousand mile journey begins with one step'":-(

H would like us to plan a holiday together. We haven't done that since pre-A. We've been away the last few years but always in connection with S7's autism.

(For those of you who still remember my story, we lost our tribunal last year against our educational authority. It was devastating but we were very united both in the fight and the loss. Things have moved on. S7 is not at the school we wanted for him but we are trying to teach him as much as possible ourselves when he is home.)

S11 and D9 still seems unaware of all that went on. Occasionally, one of them will mention something about someone having an A--in connection with a TV programme or a teacher--and sound very critical. I always feel a bit tense when the topic comes up around H.

H has said that he no longer thinks about OW and that he thinks she was very calculating. She had tried to convince him that we would all be better off if he left me. He said that he never really could get his head around the idea that the children would be better off with divorced parents.

My zoologist friend from graduate school days has been here on a six month sabbatical. He's just gone back to S.A. but made it clear how attracted he was to me just after he left (by email). I feel very flattered and I also feel some compassion for H. I think it would be very easy to fall into an A. I'm lucky in that I've seen how burned everyone was by H's A. I don't trust the happy ending fantasies. I know that, despite the excitement, I'd feel dreadful if I had an A. The zoologist knows that I'm committed to my M, which is why he says he's not overstepped the line (though one could say that telling me that he's had to hold back because of the fact that I"m married is overstepping the line!).

I'm sorry this is such a rambling update.

Positives: H says that he loves me and that my physical attractiveness is not in question and never has been. H wants to go on holiday together. H phones me and talks to me more and more about what's going on in his life--his work and his ideas. H often suggests we have lunch together or go for walks. We laugh more together. In fact, we get on better than we have for years and years.

I just need to keep on track. I do believe that we will resume our physical relationship one day. I want him to know that he has wanted it, so I don't want to initiate overtly. I think it will be more solid if it's in his time.

As an experiment, I"ve grazed his hand 'accidentally' a couple of times in the last fortnight. He hasn't flinched or anything. The children were away on New Year's Eve weekend and we had moments that felt intimate and pre-romantic. We were just talking in bed. I thought there was 'something in the air' but I may have been deluding myself. I felt that there was a certain tension that reminded me of the time before our first kiss in 1990 when we seemed to be talking but other things were going on. I remember he was advising me on colours for the walls of my new flat at the time--something that I now know he has absolutely no interest in. I can't remember what we were talking about New Year Eve weekend but it had that same surreal quality of it not really being about what we were talking about. I'm not sure I'm making any sense!

Any feedback much appreciated.

I send those of you who are 'behind' me much encouragement. I know that I wouldn't be where I am now in my marriage without DB. I encourage those of you wanting to work on your M to follow the principles--even if you do so imperfectly as I certainly did. I also know that many M get back on track much faster. I think "Patience and persistance" is the name of the game for me.

Wendylon

Me: 45
H: 47
Together since 1990
3 kids: S11, D9, S7
PA: Sept 2003-Dec 2004
Bomb: May 2004
Repairing 2 years +

[Livnlearn]

Hi Wendy,

I remember you! Glad to hear that some things are moving in the right direction and it is a HUGE plus that your H recognises that your kids wouldn't be better off with divorced parents, most WASs here are completely oblivious to the damage they do.

Hang in there, and try flirting with your H.

Livnlearn

[Wendylon]

Haven't been on the forum for a couple of years!! This stuff works . I applied Michele's suggestions with the support of a wonderful DB coach. DH never went off with OW. That was nearly 5 years ago.

I've noticed however how I'm falling into many of my pre-A behaviours which DH claims had a lot to do with him being vulnerable to OW's attentions. I tend towards nagging and being controlling. I'm here to remind myself of where things could lead to if I'm not careful.

I've been getting onto my DH's case about his weight and he hates it. In my defense, I have to say that he's put on lots of weight in the last couple of years. My goal is to STOP nagging him to exercise, to stop bringing up weight/health issues. Instead I want to up my rate of words of affirmation. I know that DH loves them and yet I'm very stingy with them.

DH came back this evening after a few days away. So far, I haven't nagged but I haven't succeeded with any WOA either. Resolution for tomorrow: Find at least 2 occasions for WOA. I did suggest we go for a walk which turned out to be nice and pretty long because the park was closed at the end we wanted to go out and DH couldn't get over the fence easily and didn't want to try. We walked all the way back to the other end of Regent's Park before walking home. I did tease him about it which maybe I should have refrained from doing. I told him he was in the 99th bottom centile of the population when it came to climbing over fences. I should have kept quiet and been pleased that it added a good hour to our walk!

It's nice to be back. I wonder whether anyone from my former days is still around.

Wendylon

[Wendylon]

Here I am again, over three years later since my last post and eight years since first registering with DB.

My H is doing some weird things so I need to get back to DBing seriously. I'm reading threads and getting back into the swing of this approach. I know it really helped before. It's scary how easy it is to revert to old, unhelpful habits. I don't know if he's in an EA or PA or just being secretive. We've had a difficult year and I'm determined to feel better about our R--whatever it takes.

[MrBond]

Did the two of you go to MC after the first time?

[Starsky309]

I don't know if he's in an EA or PA or just being secretive.

Was there infidelity involved in your past instance(s)? What sort of boundaries (counseling, transparency, etc.) did you guys put in place after you last reconciled?


Starsky

[AnotherStander]

Hi Wendylon! Back in 07 you posted this:

"All, however, is not back to normal. H doesn't touch me or use any affectionate language. He will kiss me on the cheek if one of us is going on a trip without the other but that is about it."

I'm curious if that ever returned? Would love to hear more about your progress over the years.

Then in '09 you wrote this:

"I've been getting onto my DH's case about his weight and he hates it. In my defense, I have to say that he's put on lots of weight in the last couple of years. My goal is to STOP nagging him to exercise, to stop bringing up weight/health issues. Instead I want to up my rate of words of affirmation. I know that DH loves them and yet I'm very stingy with them."

Granted this is from years ago, but you never got a response. Sounds like you've read the 5LL, so you may remember from that book that nagging won't get a response from anyone. He already knows you want him to lose weight, so you don't need to constantly remind him. Instead, fill his love tank via whatever his language is and that will give him incentive to fulfill your wishes. I'm just bringing it up again after all this time because you expressed that you're having trouble again, so it may be a good time to re-read 5LL and put those practices into action. And DB/ DR too of course

Good luck!

[Wendylon]

Did the two of you go to MC after the first time?

Yes, we went to counselling until about a year ago. He got fed up because he reckoned that once again, the therapist was siding with me and giving him a hard time. I'm really not sure it was that useful as I was never 100% sure of whether to trust what he was saying, even there.

[Wendylon]

[/quote]
Was there infidelity involved in your past instance(s)? What sort of boundaries (counseling, transparency, etc.) did you guys put in place after you last reconciled? Starsky [/quote]

Thank you, Mr Bond, for your previous question and thank you, Starsky, for this one.

My H claims that he is not having an A and that if he leaves me it will be because of me not because of someone else. I have told him that I don't feel I can go through another A and his response was that I don't need to.

A month ago, he took a woman out to the theatre. I was upset as he took her to see an adaptation of "A Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night' which is about an autistic boy. The woman in question is a 30 yr old photographer who has worked with him on an exhibition of photos of a Slovakian residence for autistic people where the carers are Romas. H thinks it's an interesting set-up that could possibly be replicated.

Sorry about the level of detail but the point is that our youngest son (now 13) is severely autistic and we both retrained and became behavior analysts. Yet he took this woman to the play who has very little to do with autism apart from taking photos at one institution with him. To add insult to injury, I had seen the tickets arrive in the post for that play a few months ago and had asked him about them. When he said that he'd ordered 2 tickets, I said that I'd be keen to go and and he'd said sure. A month ago, he denied ever having agreed to that as he claimed he'd ordered them in the first place to thank OW (not sure she is exactly that) and therefore would never have agreed to my coming along. He then said that if he did lie about it, which he couldn't remember doing, it was only because he knew that I'd react the way I was reacting, ie, paranoid and neurotically. He then said that he didn't think we could ever get over his A and that I'd never trust him again. The fact is that I don't trust him. He hasn't earned it.

He definitely has a crush on her and has admitted that he isn't indifferent to her looks. He mentioned that they were looking for more institutions to photograph and that Slovakian place wants them to go again. Looking back, I can see that he was really looking for a fight when he came back from his trip with her to Slovakia which was in March. In fact, he feels as if he's been spoiling for fights all year.

The night of the opening of the exhibition he got me to take our son home and stayed out past 3 am celebrating with her and others after. She is attractive and she mentioned in her talk what a privilege it was for her to be able to spend time with H as he was such an expert on autism. He never introduced me to her. I'm not even sure he really wanted me there but because he wanted our there it was difficult for him to keep me away. He made it clear though that he didn't mind whether or not I went and only told me about it a couple of days before the show.

He's been coming home late and going out for extended periods of time. Last weekend he was out a total of 3x6 hours, supposedly looking for something to wear to wedding we're going to tomorrow. He hasn't found anything to wear. During the A, he kept shopping for shoes (supposedly) and coming back empty-handed. It all feels very familiar. He's been getting home much later in the evenings and looks as if he's been drinking.

Tonight he got home at 8.30 (we usually have supper as a family around 7) and acted overly loud and jovial and then went to bed at 9.15. He undressed without being discrete even though D15 was around. He seemed weirdly uninhibited.

There is definitely something up. I'm just not sure how much of it is alcohol related and how much of it is photographer related. Two nights ago, he got back late (supposedly after a school's governor meeting but they don't usually run past 9 and it was 11.15pm). I heard him go down to his study. At 2 am, I woke up and noticed that he had still not come up to bed. I went downstairs and he was asleep in the dark on the floor of his tiny study. When I asked if he was coming up, he responded with "Oh, I must have fallen asleep during my meditation". As far as I know, he doesn't meditate so I really don't know what that was about. I could smell alcohol.

He doesn't have a history of alcoholism but we do have a history of him feeling controlled by me as both my parents are/were alcoholics and I'm very sensitive to it. He does have a history of sneaking/lying. This past year, he's been lying about smoking. I could tell he was smoking but he denied it. He sometimes does sneaky eating whereby he hides the wrappers in his study but complains at the same time about not losing weight even though he's not eating. Last week, he lied to me about having had a bath when I could tell he hadn't. I didn't even want him to realise that I knew he was lying because the whole thing seemed so ridiculous. I could tell that he'd gone back to bed for a nap and he must have thought that I'd disapprove.

Despite all mistrust on my part, I'm not keen for us to separate right now. We have S17, D15 and S13 (special needs). I really don't want to be dealing with a D now. My first goal is to detach and to see if I can find some peace in my life at the moment. If, down the road, when S17 and D15 are off to university and through with exams and if things are still as difficult, maybe I'd want to separate. I sometimes wonder if that is his plan.

I need to GAL and detach. I've started implementing some 180s. I'm no longer asking him about his whereabouts. No R talk. I'm not initiating contact throughout the day. My only worry is that I'm allowing him to cake-eat. I somehow doubt that he's having a PA. I just don't think he'd have the stamina for it but I may be kidding myself. He is 52 and on statins which have affected his performance/libido in a major way.

I look forward to any feedback. I do remember that this board was a godsend and, unfortunately, I haven't kept up a lot of the good habits I got into when I first joined. In the past year, I've been asking him for reassurance and having quite a few R talks--which led nowhere good. He did say on Aug 14 (my birthday and the day after taking OW to the theatre) that although it might not look like it, he did love me very much and that there was absolutely nothing going on with OW.